Black Moon

As part of the Red Bull Music Academy World Tour 2011, five hip-hop legends – each representing one of the five boroughs of New York, the birthplace of hip-hop – took the couch over five days, with each lecture was followed by a show in their own neighborhood.

In an interview with longstanding RBMA team member, Jeff “Chairman” Mao, Crooklyn’s finest, Black Moon, discussed the group’s history, their seminal album Enta Da Stage, and more.

Hosted by Jeff “Chairman” Mao Audio Only Version Transcript:

JEFF “CHAIRMAN” MAO

Gentlemen, one last time though, let’s give it up for Black Moon, please.

[applause]

All right, thank you, gentlemen, for being here, talk about Enta Da Stage, which as I said a few minutes ago, really very important album in the history of hip hop. I was going to go through each track in the sequence of the CD, but since this is the single that set it off, I think we should maybe start with that, if that’s cool. Maybe even folks who weren’t around at the time, in 1993, don’t necessarily understand the impact of this album. They may just know it as great music, but I think it’s a lot more than that. And, if you guys could, as we start out, if you could just talk about what you think the significance of the album is.

5FT

Yo, well I think that when we put the album together, a lot of hard work and dedication and passion was put into that, you know what I’m saying. I didn’t know that it would have the impact that it’s had over the years since we put out the album. And I’m real grateful for that, you know.

Buckshot

The album came out in ’93. Before that was the single “Who Got the Props?” And for that time, the word independent probably was so far from even thought of. There were a few independents out there. But to make the impact that a major made was definitely not put on the map really at that time. So, when we came out with “Who Got the Props?” nobody knew who we were. They didn’t know what label we came out of, they didn’t know, you know, things of that nature. So, they just knew that they liked this record “Who Got the Props?” and a lot of people played it and that was cool for us, ‘cause it put us on a pedestal where as long as you got good music then you can achieve what you need to achieve. And then later, Enta Da Stage was made on the same independent label. So it was of real significance for hip hop at the time, because primarily it was just known for having major labels you know, and if it was independent like Cold Chillin’ or, you know, it was still through Warner Bros. We was through a house label straight up and down the area.

JEFF “CHAIRMAN” MAO

Right, yeah, ‘cause tell everyone who may not know, Nervous [Records] was not known for hip hop at all at that time.

DJ Evil Dee

Nah, Nervous was known for house music and disco classics. Like they had Nervous, Slash and Sam records, and Sam records put out a lot of classic joints, like The Evasions and the breakbeat “I Can’t Stop.”

JEFF “CHAIRMAN” MAO

Yeah they had a lot of disco and boogie and stuff like that. Wasn’t, like, Michael, who ran the label, his family was in the business?

Buckshot

The Weisses were pretty famous. Actually, Barry Weiss is still the owner of Jive Records. So the Weisses were players in the music industry. We were fortunate to get a record deal at the time by Michael Weiss, put it like that.

JEFF “CHAIRMAN” MAO

Now, can you talk a little bit about the importance of this album to New York? From my recollection, circa like ‘92 or so you know it was pretty much West Coast. The Chronic had come out and Snoop was about to drop as well. It was, you know, the stigma about New York was, “Well, you know, they make okay records, but they’re more artsy, or they’re more on the Native Tongues tip,” whereas this album came out and had a real power to it.

Buckshot

I mean when this album came out, it embodied the personality and the people that made it. Which is us, as Evil Dee, 5FT and myself. When you put all of us together as a unit, you get the elements that was in the album. E being heavily influenced by old records, you know what I’m saying, old funk, old jazz loops, stuff like that, and 5FT and myself being prior dancers before picking up a mic.

5FT

So, we was absorbed by the music for a very long time you know what I’m saying. You know, I could go recollect when my moms had two turntables and a mic in the house when I was like seven, six-years-old, with the speakers and the crates. So, being embodied into that element, and growing up into that element, and appreciating music period, having an opportunity to be a part of hip hop and expressing it is extraordinary.

Buckshot

See, a lot of people would say the New York vibe at the time was pure artsy or whatever, and the West Coast music that came out was pure gangster, street, gangsta, yo, straight up and down bang music, you know what I mean? People were saying New York music is primarily known for, like, they would associate more Tribe and De La [Soul] to New York, because they were saying New York is that quote unquote conscious stuff and we do more unconscious stuff. You know, that gangster stuff is more unconscious, you know? So, when Black Moon came out with Enta Da Stage, it really changed the playing field, because as the individual I embody everything. I come from Franklin Avenue, we all come from the hood. We grew up on the block, grew up in different parts of Brooklyn, Coney Island, Franklin Avenue, Bushwick. And then at the same time we conscious because we grew up in an Islamic environment, as well. At the same time, we’re culturally conscious so, we’ve put all that in our music and we fought back with the attitude of when you listen to Enta Da Stage, you hear consciousness, you hear street stuff, you know what I’m saying, street, hardcore, dudes that don’t play, conscious, aware and positive at the time. So, we sent out a different message that we positive dudes that don’t play no games, and that’s the bottom line, You know what I’m saying. And that was really the truth of how we are, so we’re universal.

DJ Evil Dee

One thing I wanted to say is, putting the album together basically my thing is from the music side, like they did all the lyrics. Me and Mr Walt did all the beats. Basically, me, I’ve traveled, I used to go to the West Coast in summertimes, and go stay with my aunt. The West Coast is all laid back, it’s all about funk, and that showed in their music. Over here, we on the train, it’s crowded. We hitting the concrete, we doing what we gotta do. And that’s one of the things that was put into the music. Our everyday lifestyle, our everyday function. Like yo, I was on the train, with my walkman, listening to, you know whatever was rocking at the time. And then I would go home and be like, okay, I heard Gang Starr. “Just To Get A Rep” was crazy, or this record is crazy, and then I would go to the… there was a party back in the days where they used to play the beats.

JEFF “CHAIRMAN” MAO

Soul Kitchen?

DJ Evil Dee

Soul Kitchen. They used to go to Soul Kitchen, then leave Soul Kitchen, go to D&D, no, at the time it was Calliope. Go to Calliope, and then work on the beats. And my brother, Walt, he made his beats like… me, I make my beats on the spot. Mr Walt, he made his beats at home. You know, with me I like the pressure. I like where Buck and 5 walk in and go, “We got these lyrics,” and I be like, “Word, I got the beat, give me five minutes, Imma look for it.” Come back in five minutes, I’d programmed something. That’s what this whole album reflected, basically, was me making beats up, that’s just it.

JEFF “CHAIRMAN” MAO

I want to ask you guys a little bit about how the group came together. Because some folks may not even know that.

5FT

I moved to Bushwick in ’86, and I went to a high school called Bushwick. That’s where I met Evil Dee. At the time I met him, he was DJing, he was doing music, he had a group called Unique Image, with my man Ali. Yeah, and we connected. At the time I was dancing. Ali was rhyming, I was dancing, so they ended up breaking up, so I was like being around him so much, son has so much records in his house. I ain’t never seen so much records like this in my life. And I’m a lover of music from growing up, being around it. We directly connected at that point. And kept moving forward, and I kept dancing, still was DJing, then I went down to Virginia for a minute, and one day I called him, and said, “Yo, I’m coming back to New York, so when I get back, we’re going to connect.” So, when I got back, we connected, and during that journey, you know, still dealing with music, he still was making beats, he still was DJing, he was throwing wild parties, house parties. Went carrying the records here, carrying the records there, mad crates, and all that. So, during this process, I had met Buck in Brownsville, in the centre, he was dancing, so we kicked it for a minute. At that time, when he was dancing, he also told me what he wanted to do with the music. But, you know what I’m saying, that’s what made me connect on that level even more. So I ended up bringing him to Evil Dee’s crib. From that point forth the rest is history. And it became from that point forth, built up to what you got on Enta Da Stage.

Buckshot

Like he, when he brought me to E, I was walking out of, I was doing a show the next day for a talent show. And my man told me he couldn’t come, and so I was walking out of the centre, and I said, “Damn, I don’t have a partner, what am I gonna do?” And this other guy I had was real tall. So, when I was leaving out the center, I saw 5 was dancing to this music, I went back and I was like, “Dang he’s short!”

[laughter]

I was like, “That’s hot. He can do it, and he’s nice to them like that.” So, I walked back and I say, “Yo man, you nice!” I’m like, “Yo, word.” He was like “Yo, good looking, man.” I was like, “Word, you want to do this talent show?” And he was like, “Yo, I’m down.” So I was like, “Yo, this stuff coming out, these beats, this music you listening to is hot! Where do you get this from?” And he was like, “My man actually made this,” and I was like, “WHAT?!” He said, “Yeah, Evil, you know, Evil Dee.” I was like, “You know somebody that made this stuff?” That’s when he brought me over to Evil Dee’s crib, and they say yo, even though Evil Dee had Black Moon with him and his brother. And then, right there, they said, “Yo, let’s form Black Moon, and from right there Black Moon was born.”

DJ Evil Dee

Black Moon was actually Beatminerz’ original name. Mr Walt was a fan of Moonlighting. Now there’s a true story, too.

JEFF “CHAIRMAN” MAO

With Bruce Willis?

DJ Evil Dee

Mr Walt was a fan of Moonlighting. And if he was here he would punch me in the face for saying that. But the name of their detective agency was Blue Moon Detective Agency. So, Walt just changed the Blue Moon to Black Moon. So Beatminerz’ original name was Black Moon. Then what happened was my brother had an MC. The MC name was DEA, and DEA went beat shopping with me and my brother. Me and my brother used to go beat shopping in east New York, in this basement filled with records, they just threw the records down there. It was wet, it was nasty, you see dead carcasses floating. Dead mice and dead rats floating, but we were being there digging for records, and we would come up looking crazy, looking like we was coal mining. So DEA was like, “Yo, I’m gonna make y’all, y’all are the Beatminerz.” He had a song called “Beatminerz Walk Like That So Much.” He changed Black Moon’s name to Beatminerz, and that’s when Buckshot said, “Yo, we taking that name.” But, one thing I wanted to say is when Buck came to my house that first time, Buck walks into my house, and the first thing out of his mouth, not, “Yo what’s up?” But, “Damn! You got a lot of records!” [laughs]

Buckshot

Never seen that many records, ever.

DJ Evil Dee

And another thing is, 5, in school, when we was at Bushwick High School. There’s always that one dude that’s always dancing for no reason. That was 5FT. And it was ill because I was like, “Yo, 5 is the nicest dancer I ever seen.” And then he’d brought Buckshot along, like, don’t get it twisted, these two dudes can dance! They may be all laid back right now, but they get theirs on that dancefloor.

JEFF “CHAIRMAN” MAO

But that was the thing back then, every crew had dancers.

5FT

That was our connection to hip hop at that time, on the come up, you know what I’m saying, that’s how we were reflecting it at that time. And, you know, in reality we was trying to really do the dancing thing real hard. We had this thing where seriously we was trying to move in that direction, going toward dancing and doing choreography, and taking that really seriously.

Buckshot

And it’s ironic that [Big Daddy] Kane is here, because Scoob and Scrap [Lover], for us was like like to reach, to be able to reach Scoob and Scrap level was like an honor here. That’s all we wanted to do was wear those outfits that they wear. [laughs]

DJ Evil Dee

Yo, it was so wild, we would go to clubs, and these two would disappear, would just start dancing. We’d be in clubs and I’d just be out, cuz I don’t dance, so I’d just be in the background, chilling, and everybody’d be like, “Yo, yo, those dudes is ill, who’s that, who’s that?” And I’d be like, “That’s Black Moon.”

Buckshot

That’s why with the music we’d do, with the album, every track that E gave us, in our heads, in me and 5’s heads, we were still dancing. We had to figure out somehow, some way to melodically dance to the music. If we could get, if we could, if it was grooving, then we alright.

JEFF “CHAIRMAN” MAO

So when did it, how did you turn the corner, go from focusing on dancing to MCing?

Buckshot

One day we did this show for I think it was a parks department at the time. I mean, that was the first time someone had every paid us to do a performance. I was like, “This is money, to do what we like to do? This is crazy.” You know, I couldn’t believe it. I was like, “Wow!”

JEFF “CHAIRMAN” MAO

Out here? In Brooklyn?

Buckshot

In Brooklyn. It was like, uh, you do something for the park, they had a little… Take Back The Park, that was the name, and they got us a performance. And for some reason, after that day, it was just something in my chest. We need to focus a little bit more on the MCing. I kinda felt like we was good, but I was always studying other people, always studying, that’s my thing. And I’m like, “We’re good, but we could be better.” And one of the things we kinda got a roadblock in is we got, all of us got talent, but we put too much in the bag. Me and 5 was dancers, E was MCing at the time.

DJ Evil Dee

I was the worst MC ever, let it be known. I was the worst, and I can admit that. I don’t care what anybody says, I was the worst.

Buckshot

We called him Evil Dee, the master of gibberish.

DJ Evil Dee

[laughs] Yo, first of all, let me explain. As a matter of fact, if you look on YouTube, this guy right here posted something too. Posted me rhyming, too, but you have to really look for it, though. I was the worst MC. Unlike a lot of MCs that are wack, I knew I was wack, and I knew I had to quit. I said, “I ain’t gonna rhyme no more, I’m just gonna DJ.” I would yell on the mic, that’s about it.

Buckshot

And there was a lot of pressure. Don’t get it twisted, man, there was a lot of pressure.

5FT

We went through a lot of rides, we did a lot, we was hustling, trying to get equipment, someone was always trying to get the next piece of equipment that was coming out. It was just working like, you know, we really hustled, you know what I’m saying, and bustled, to even have a product like that, you know what I’m saying, and that’s crazy, man, we paid a lot of dues, man. Someone was running up and working for, doing an internship at labels.

Buckshot

I was the intern for Soul/MCA Records, and at the same time I was interning, right after interning for Soul/MCA Records, and it’s so funny that I’m on stage with Kane tonight, because I actually worked on the Juice soundtrack, when Kane was on Juice, and I worked on that soundtrack when I was an intern.

JEFF “CHAIRMAN” MAO

That was the Bomb Squad’s label through MCA at the time.

DJ Evil Dee

Here’s the funny thing. He worked, he was interning at the label, Mr Walt finagled the promotion for the Juice joint, he finagled it so that we was the New York promotion reps for the Juice movie.

Buckshot

Yo, they had about 5000, well not 5000, but it seemed like 5000 boxes of Juice stuff everywhere.

DJ Evil Dee

 Juice T-shirts, we had Juice hats, stickers, records, cassettes…

Buckshot

And no disrespect Juice, I’m sorry, but I always had to hustle it at the time, but I also was like, “Wow, how could I actually like, stack up some of this Juice stuff and sell it like a record store.”

[laughter]

DJ Evil Dee

Hey, I’ll say it right now, yo. We was promoting the Juice soundtrack, and we was selling them, we was promoting everything at the front door, and selling them at the back door. I’m on the hustle! That’s how we learned how to promote records today!

5FT

We was on it back then, back then, that was our first experience even involving gentlemen like, having control on the distributing and finagling and, being involved with the business side of it.

JEFF “CHAIRMAN” MAO

So, this was all built before you guys got your break to do your first single. Tell us a story about how that happened, how you met the person who ended up connecting you with Nervous. You guys performed, right, at an industry thing?

5FT

Right, we did a performance, a promoter named Maria Davis, and it was part of the DNA talent search or some showcase they was having. We was actually about to walk out the door because it seemed like they wasn’t actually gonna put us on stage, like the time was running down. So, we put on our coats, bookbags, knapsacks, and was getting ready to walk out the door, but Maria stopped and said, “Just give me five minutes,” and she let us go on and we did our thing. And Chuck Chillout was in the crowd, and he had approached us on the way outside and told us, “I’m feeling y’all, you’re doing your thing, y’all did that thing. We got a situation. Give me a call, you know what I’m saying.” So, he gave his number to Buck, then Buck ended up calling him. You know, they connected up, we ended up meeting him and going with Nervous. You know, Nervous, part of Sam, Michael Weiss, in front of Michael Weiss we’d perform. We performed the spot, I said that was our demo. You know what I’m saying, that was our demo. No demo, we got no demo.

DJ Evil Dee

We had a demo made, but that particular meeting, it had nothing to do with the demo, it had all to do with performance. We gave the demo, you know I sent the demo out to everybody, and you got the rejection letter of, you know, “Yo, this is hot, but it’s not what we’re looking for.” And it’s funny, because I still got the rejection letters form like, Chemistry Records, Warner Bros. The only two labels I did not give the record to was Profile and Def Jam, and I’mma tell you why. Profile, Funkmaster Flex was the A&R, and I didn’t want him to think that I was using our friendship to get a record deal. And at Def Jam, Bobbito was the A&R, and the same thing, I didn’t want him to think I was using his friendship to get a deal. Now the funny thing is, Serch was at Wild Pitch, and you know I didn’t give it Wild Pitch either, and when the record came out, Stu Fine and Serch was like, “Yo, what the fuck! You ain’t going to give this to us, what’s wrong with you!?” And like, it’s everybody who I didn’t give the demo to was mad at me, and everyone who fronted on the demo was mad at theyself.

Buckshot

Yep, yep, we walked in and he said, sitting right from that point of view you guys are at, and I’m Michael Weiss and I’m sitting here like this. And he said, “Let me see what you got.” And I looked at 5, and we looked at each other, and he said, “Y’all ready?” And I said this is how it’s going to go down, or it’s never going to go. And we said let’s do it. BOMB! And we did our thing, and then after that it was like, “BOMB! What you think?” And he was like, “I loved it.” And we walked out of there like this [mimes his heart beating fast]. I don’t believe this.

5FT

Like we did it, all the blood, sweat and tears. You know what I’m saying. Struggling, trying to make things happen, or dealing with being in the street, and not being caught up in the drama. Not being a statistic and not being able to achieve anything. And that’s why that album means a lot to me, because I know all the work, prior to the actualisation of that CD, and the things that we had to go through, and the things that we sacrificed, to go through, to make that happen.

JEFF “CHAIRMAN” MAO

I was gonna go through each track in the sequence of the CD, but since this is the single that set it off I think we should maybe start with this, if that’s cool.

Buckshot

”Who Got Da Props?”

JEFF “CHAIRMAN” MAO

Yeah, so let’s play a little piece of that, “Who Got Da Props?” from Black Moon.

Black Moon – “Who Got Da Props?”

(music: Black Moon - “Who Got Da Props?” / applause)

That’s the joint that set it off for you. Now, do you want to do a little demonstration, just a production tip here?

DJ Evil Dee

All right, so production-wise, this record was actually produced by myself. First of all, let me explain something. This record, when we shot the demo, this record was not a part of our demo. What happened was, we had a record called “Feminine Hood.”

Buckshot

Yeah.

DJ Evil Dee

Is that right? It was basically like a gangsta-bitch type record.

JEFF “CHAIRMAN” MAO

Who came up with that title?

DJ Evil Dee

I ain’t going to tell you all who, but what happened was I think we was leaving the label or something, and we bumped into Q-Tip, I think we bumped into, and it was like, “Yo, what’s up?” He was like, “I just left the studio. Apache got this record called ‘Gangsta Bitch.’“ And I think I looked at Buck like, “Oh shit, that’s our idea.” What happened, I had made this beat, and Buck… Let me tell you all something about Buck, right? This dude fucking keeps everything. This dude goes in, digs up the cassette. “Yo, this is the beat I want to rhyme to right here.” It was the “Who Got Da Props?” joint. How long it took to throw that together? A day or something?

Buckshot

About a day, because we was saying, they was telling us to come over and something, and E had the beat.

5FT

Did we do that at Shlomo’s?

Buckshot

Yeah, we did it at Shlomo’s, the studio, but it was more crazy that when we wrote the record, when E gave us the beat, I was so happy. We wrote the record at Chuck Chillout’s house.

5FT

Word to mother, man.

DJ Evil Dee

The BX.

Buckshot

The BX, and Chuck Chillout had one half of a bedroom or something, because it was just real crazy how to describe it because we was real tucked in. Me and 5 was on the floor, and Chuck Chillout is in the kitchen cooking burgers, and he’s like, “Yo, want some burgers?” “Nah, we all right.” Next thing you know we were sitting there writing lyrics and we wrote the joint.

JEFF “CHAIRMAN” MAO

You recorded it at Such-a-Sound, in Brooklyn, Studios, no longer here.

DJ Evil Dee

Yeah, Such-a-Sound Studio, and I’mma tell you something about this record that nobody knows. First of all, they didn’t have a setup for the turntables, so I did the cuts sitting on the floor, that’s number one. Number two, me and the engineer, Schlomo, got into a big argument every time, because I wanted the record to sound one way, he was trying to take over my record, so he just said just like this, “Oh you think you know everything? Mix the record yourself.” So that was the first record I ever mixed myself in the studio, and I did the mixing, I set all the levels, you know, that was my first engineering job in a professional studio. And you have the results on the album right now. Now this the original sample.

Ronnie Laws – “Tidal Wave”

(music: Ronnie Laws - “Tidal Wave”)

And I’m gonna also point out the part that I sampled too. What I did, the first part of that, I repeated that three times, then the last part came in at the end, and that was the beat, “Who Got Da Props?” The drums to that beat is…

JEFF “CHAIRMAN” MAO

I didn’t bring those records.

DJ Evil Dee

It’s all cool. “Sport” slowed down by… Well, it’s Kool and the Gang. That’s not what they called that record though. It wasn’t Kool & the Gang at the time.

JEFF “CHAIRMAN” MAO

It was Lightnin’ Rod, right? The Hustler’s Convention.

DJ Evil Dee

The Hustler’s Convention and Skull Snaps put together.

JEFF “CHAIRMAN” MAO

Put together, right?

DJ Evil Dee

Back then, we wasn’t chopping samples. Everything was straight sample. So that’s “Sport,” the drums was “Sport” and…

JEFF “CHAIRMAN” MAO

 ...Skull Snaps.

DJ Evil Dee

Skull Snaps put together.

JEFF “CHAIRMAN” MAO

Just synced up so they lined up.

DJ Evil Dee

Yeah. The bass part of the drums is “Sport.” The part that you hear is Skull Snaps.

JEFF “CHAIRMAN” MAO

Okay.

DJ Evil Dee

The glitter, I still forgot where I got that from, but I know it’s a Blue Note record.

JEFF “CHAIRMAN” MAO

Okay.

DJ Evil Dee

Other than that, that’s it, and the “Come on” is Wild Style.

JEFF “CHAIRMAN” MAO

Right, right.

DJ Evil Dee

You know what I’m saying?

JEFF “CHAIRMAN” MAO

It took a minute for this record to take off, or how long did it take once it got out on the street? Who broke this record in New York?

DJ Evil Dee

I may be wrong, but the first time I heard the record play, Kid Capri played it.

JEFF “CHAIRMAN” MAO

Really?

DJ Evil Dee

The Kid Capri was on WBLS.

JEFF “CHAIRMAN” MAO

Right.

Buckshot

Kid Capri was.

DJ Evil Dee

You, I’m going to run down how I heard it too. I was walking to the corner store into the bodega, and Kid Capri was on. Back then, everybody had they’re radio out, and everybody was listening to Kid Capri, and he just went straight into it, ‘boom-boom duh-nuh-nuh-nuh-nuh-nuh.’ I was like, “Yo, that’s my record?” “No, it’s not.” You know what I’m saying? But it’s like Kid Capri played the instrumental, he talked over it, then he let the vocals play. Right after that, that was Friday night. Saturday night, the Awesome Two blasted off on it, so the Awesome Two was second, and then like you had the Dirty Dozen, DNA, Hank Love, the whole line-up on WNWK, every show played it.

Buckshot

Yeah.

DJ Evil Dee

After that, then Red Alert got onto it.

JEFF “CHAIRMAN” MAO

Red Alert got on, right.

DJ Evil Dee

It just took off from there. That was New York-wise.

JEFF “CHAIRMAN” MAO

That’s New York, yeah.

DJ Evil Dee

It took a minute to spread from New York across to the rest of the world, but what it took? Like a year, right?

Buckshot

Almost, somewhere around there. Probably a few months. But we was doing 360 Black Festival Tournament. We was running around like...

JEFF “CHAIRMAN” MAO

Just working it, supporting it, yeah.

5FT

We was working and pushing it back then.

Buckshot

Little Tasmanian devil, like we was going everywhere. We was in two spots at the same time.

JEFF “CHAIRMAN” MAO

Yeah.

DJ Evil Dee

Word!

JEFF “CHAIRMAN” MAO

That’s crazy to think of because now we’re in the age where it’s like you get an mp3, it’s over. You get 30 mp3’s listed on a blog in a day, and then everybody forgot about them the next day. You got a record here that you had to work for several months to try to like break nationally, not just through New York, and it still has that sort of…

5FT

It was a blessing how everything came about on our first time, you know what I’m saying? Nobody was really schooling us, you know what I’m saying? Nobody, was really there to directly say, “Nah, you shouldn’t do that.” You know what I’m saying? From the groundwork of being in the street and Buck working as an intern with that knowledge information and the knowledge we already had from the research about just dealing life period, we was able to take that information and the G and come up with that product.

Buckshot

Yeah.

5FT

Everything was on our own. We went our first show, we had to go there and get bread from the promoter. We didn’t know what that was, you know what I’m saying? At that time, we had to take that responsibility.

Buckshot

I often tell my man Boogie when we first did the first session, Michael Weiss, we no longer was working with Chuck Chillout when we first did the album. When we got the call to do the album, Chuck Chillout was already fired or whatever the term you want to use in that.

DJ Evil Dee

Let’s just say he left.[laughs]

Buckshot

We wasn’t working with Chuck, whatever, at that point, and Michael Weiss had gave me maybe like $10,000 in cash.

DJ Evil Dee

Oh yeah, that’s right.

5FT

Word!

Buckshot

I’m like, “What’s going on here? What are you doing?” I was scared. Went to the studio. They asked me how I was going to even pay for it.

DJ Evil Dee

I pull out all this money. I’m like, “Am I doing it right?”

5FT

Stacks.

Buckshot

The pressure was just bananas, you know what I’m saying?

JEFF “CHAIRMAN” MAO

How old are you guys at this point too?

5FT

We was young, we was 18, 17.

DJ Evil Dee

I’m old. I was 21. I’m old. [laughs]

Buckshot

Eighteen, 17, 21, so the pressure was on us when we did that album.

JEFF “CHAIRMAN” MAO

So Michael said after the single started taking off, “Guys, do an entire album.”

Buckshot

Yeah, after the album, after the single took off, he said, “Later for doing the second single, just go in and do an album.”

JEFF “CHAIRMAN” MAO

Okay.

5FT

That was a blessing. We wrote “Who Got Da Props?” in like a whole year, the single.

JEFF “CHAIRMAN” MAO

Crazy to think about now.

DJ Evil Dee

You was able to do back then because it was a whole different time. Like, records lived, you know what I’m saying? Look at when “Eric B Is President” came out, that record lived for like two years.

5FT

Really hard.

Buckshot

It was hard. It was hard. That’s the reason why when we called it Enta Da Stage... Well, we called it Enta Da Stage because we knew at that time, the minute we got the call to do this album, we was going to go through some tough stages. We knew, like 5 said to you, it wasn’t easy because we were doing this by ourselves, and it was really a tough time, so we called it Enta Da Stage because we was prepared to enter the first stages of what were about to go through, because we knew it was a long run.

JEFF “CHAIRMAN” MAO

Right, well, let’s actually start going through a couple of these songs here. I’m going to start with “Powaful Impak!,” first track off _Enta Da Stage. _

Black Moon – Powaful Impak!”

(music: Black Moon - “Powaful Impak!” / applause)

DJ Evil Dee

Alright, so I’m going to tell y’all on the production side about that record. Basically, everybody was looking for the rare beats. They was looking for this, they was looking for that. I was like, “Look, you know what? I’m a beat miner, I’m always looking for that rare beat, but this time around, I’m going to sample all hip hop records.” The beat is “Dondadda” by Kenny Dope. That was on Big Beat, that was like a party record. The bassline is “Just To Get a Rep,” Gang Starr, cut in half. The explosion is the end of “I Ain’t No Joke.” Of course, the scratches is “Scenario.” You know what I’m saying?

JEFF “CHAIRMAN” MAO

That’s entirely produced off of other people’s hip hop records.

DJ Evil Dee

Yeah, all hip hop records. You know what I’m saying? I was like, “Yo, you know what? I’m going to catch everybody out there. The funny thing was, the only person I was able to identify his record was Kenny Dope, because when Premier heard the record, he was like, “You, that’s crazy? What’s that?” I’m like, “That’s your record.”

[laughter]

5FT

He was a scientist with everything. I remember he used to make beats over a double tape deck cassette jump-off. I would be bucking, like, “How you making beats off that?” Word!

Buckshot

Lyric-wise, I just felt like a powerful impact. It had the beat, and I just felt like this is the introduction to the world. I listen to even the stuff now, I’m like, “That was crazy.”

5FT

That’s the blessing, because we was just vibing out? You know what I’m saying? Right into production like that is just expressing how we felt, you know what I’m saying, there was no certain criteria. Now that we know more about how things go…

Buckshot

Buckshot Shorty was really Buckshot Shorty.

JEFF “CHAIRMAN” MAO

Yeah.

Buckshot

Word up. Unshackled, like, we all grow at some point time, we elevate from Buckshot Shorty to Buckshot, but yeah, Buckshot Shorty.

JEFF “CHAIRMAN” MAO

Was fighting with the devil and…?

DJ Evil Dee

Yes, all of that.

Buckshot

Buckshot Short was yeah, you know what I mean? Yeah, you look at the album, I’m not looking up. Anybody who got it, because I never really liked the public. I’m not a fame person.

JEFF “CHAIRMAN” MAO

Let’s go onto the next track, which is entitled… I won’t say the title. All right.

DJ Evil Dee

”N---z Talk Shit.”

JEFF “CHAIRMAN” MAO

From Black Moon’s Enta Da Stage.

Black Moon – “Niguz Talk Shit”

(music: Black Moon - “Niguz Talk Shit” / applause)

DJ Evil Dee

All right, production-wise.

JEFF “CHAIRMAN” MAO

Sounds pretty good, huh?

DJ Evil Dee

I think that’s a Miles Davis record, I said, but I cannot remember.

JEFF “CHAIRMAN” MAO

The horn or the bassline?

DJ Evil Dee

The bassline.

Buckshot

I love how he had a filter though. Praise God. Always love how E used to filter the [samples].

DJ Evil Dee

The drums are Ike & Tina Turner drums, same drums they had for “Spread Love.” [imitates horn part] Stanley Turnsteen?

JEFF “CHAIRMAN” MAO

Stanley Turrentine?

DJ Evil Dee

Yeah, I know, I said it wrong.

JEFF “CHAIRMAN” MAO

Yeah?

DJ Evil Dee

Yeah. A lot of horns on the album is that same album.

JEFF “CHAIRMAN” MAO

Really?

DJ Evil Dee

Yeah.

JEFF “CHAIRMAN” MAO

Which Stanley Turrentine album?

DJ Evil Dee

The one that has the “Da-dah! Da-dah! Da-dah!” He [JEFF “CHAIRMAN” MAO] knows records.

Buckshot

What a way to name a…

DJ Evil Dee

You know what it is? I don’t remember the album. If Walt was here, he probably would know, but…

JEFF “CHAIRMAN” MAO

Is Walt here?

Buckshot

Walt’s not here.

5FT

Walt definitely would definitely [know].

JEFF “CHAIRMAN” MAO

We’ll corner Walt later.

Buckshot

He’s making a beat.

DJ Evil Dee

Walt’s the older brother. Oh, let me put you up on something. Also, when I was making this album, I was not digging for records the way that I dig for records now. I was digging for records in my brother’s collection. What we would do is my brother would go to work, me, Buck, and 5 would go into his apartment, do what we gonna do, make beats, do what we gonna do, and then fix everything back and go sit on the steps, so when my brother walks in he sees I’m sitting on the steps. So every record I sampled on this at the time, I stole from my brother’s collection.

JEFF “CHAIRMAN” MAO

Could you explain also what Walt’s job was at the time too, because that was really important in terms of you know, you guys knowing people in the business. I mean, people must be wondering, “Oh, you know Q-Tip, you knew Funkmaster Flex, you knew all these people before you even got a record out?” How did you guys know some of these folks, especially out in Queens?

DJ Evil Dee

Well, what happened was, my brother Mr. Walt worked at the Music Factory in Jamaica, Queens. Now, the Music Factory in Jamaica, Queens is very important because everybody in hip hop somehow ended up at that store, especially Queens hip hop artists. My brother sold Jam Master Jay, God rest the dead, his turntables. He sold LL [Cool J] his radio. He sold Large Professor his first breakbeat he ever bought. My brother sold records to De La, to Public Enemy. As a matter of fact, he sold records to Q-Tip, Phife and all of them. Q-Tip liked my brother so much he made a record called “The What,” and on that record he said, “What’s the Music Factory without Mr. Walt?” And that’s how my brother got his name, Mr. Walt. My brother, you know, was so influential at the time, when it came to music, like Ed Lover used to hang out in the store with him. Flavor Flav like, my brother would come home every day with pictures with mad artists. Remember that?

5FT

He’d be hating, you’d get so mad he wouldn’t want to take us to the bar. He got the pictures with Salt n Pepa…with Slick Rick...

 Speaker: DJ Evil Dee

Here’s a funny story. My brother would do these in-stores. It was an in-store with Ice-T and Big Daddy Kane, come to think about it, at the time I was mad skinny. My brother was like, “You’re security.” And it was like, yo, but that’s what my brother would do. My brother would have all these artists come through to his store, and he knew everybody.

5FT

That was part of the drive to push it and be able to be a part of this culture. Things like that, like where we can’t go. We dying to get in here.

JEFF “CHAIRMAN” MAO

All right, let’s move on. We already heard “Who Got Da Props?” You know, it’s funny because I used to listen to this record on vinyl, and then later, when I heard the CD, I was like, “Oh, they have all the extra tracks on here.” What is like, in your mind, the definitive version of the album? Is it the one with the CD that most people know now with all the bonus tracks? Is it the vinyl version?

DJ Evil Dee

It’s funny because the version I have is the CD version on vinyl.

JEFF “CHAIRMAN” MAO

Oh, because you’re special, yeah.

[laughter]

DJ Evil Dee

It’s like, the way we put the CD together and everything, I actually, believe it or not, my real version is the cassette. The cassette, because back then, the cassette was very important, and me and Mr. Walt, Buck, 5, Dru Ha, sat down, and it was like, “Look, we’re going to balance out both sides to make sure the sides are equal so that there’s no dead air at the end of one side so the other side can get more… You know what I’m saying? That’s the whole thing. The cassette version is the one that we took the time out to do.

JEFF “CHAIRMAN” MAO

Okay, all right. This was a B side. It’s on the CD and the cassette version. It was also for those who had the vinyl as a B side. We’re going to hear “Act Like U Want It.”

Black Moon – “Act Like You Want It”

(music: Black Moon - “Act Like U Want It” / applause)

All right?

Buckshot

Now, the funny thing about “Act Like U Want It” real quick is that record was made in the beginning. That record was made before a lot of…

5FT

That was one of the first records we did after “Who Got The Props?,” right? Actually, our first time in an actual full-throttle studio. I mean, an actual booth set up with a mic and just go. That was crazy.

Buckshot

That was anything that was pretty much almost set up to be the second single if there was going to be a second single, but we went to doing the album, and we said, “You know what? That’s going to be the reverse side, the B side of ‘Who Got Da Props?’“ But the reason why that record is special because that was the first time that before that record, I didn’t know what freestyling was, you know what I’m saying? I didn’t know how MCs had the ability to rhyme without putting their pen to the paper. I didn’t understand that concept at all. So E had this beat, he had the “Act Like U Want It” beat, and me and 5 was in the hotel in San Francisco, and E played the beat, and after freestyling with Nas and Kool G Rap and Da Youngstas and the few MCs in this one room for hours. For hours. I’m freestyling, doing these records off of the end of stage and other stuff, and I ran out of lyrics, right? I was so mad that at that point I tried to freestyle a little bit, and I couldn’t do it, so I just let the rest of them do it. I got to the room. I played the beat, and I was like, “Later for this,” and I just kept doing it, and I swear to God, it came out like, “See thee, see me, because does anybody want to be, be Dee?” I was like, “Oh!” I ran out with 5 and I said, “5! I got it! I got it!” From that point, I knew how to freestyle, and I will remember “Act Like U Want It” because of that.

JEFF “CHAIRMAN” MAO

That was the genesis right there. Cool.

Buckshot

That was genesis of evolving into being a better MC.

JEFF “CHAIRMAN” MAO

All right, I’m going to keep it moving to the next one, actually. One, two, three, four, five. This is a good one.

DJ Evil Dee

 ”Buck Em Down.”

Black Moon – “Buck Em Down”

(music: Black Moon – “Buck Em Down” / applause)

Buckshot

Shorty was really mad at the industry.

JEFF “CHAIRMAN” MAO

Yeah, there’s a lot of venom in your [lyrics].

Buckshot

Yeah, he ain’t looking at that. He and Buckshot Shorty would like to make the industry.

JEFF “CHAIRMAN” MAO

He’s going to just show us a little demonstration of where this came from.

DJ Evil Dee

All right, first of all, let me explain something. I didn’t know how to really work in a studio. I didn’t know how to mix a record or nothing like that. I just knew I wanted to make records that was loud. Me and Mr. Walt, we was onto some, “Yo, turn it up. It got to be loud.” That was our whole thing. When you’re mixing a record, you’re mixing on small NS-10 speakers. We was like, “No, fuck that. Put them in the big speakers. Turn it up loud.” Every session, if we blew the fuses, we knew it was hot. It got to a point we was in Calliope Studios, before I would go to the studio, I would buy a box of fuses and go in, but the fuses on top of the console and go, “Let’s rock.” It’s like everything we played blew speakers.

5FT

That’s word to mother.

DJ Evil Dee

This right here I’m about to play is the original sample for “Buck Em Down.” It’s called “Wind Parade” by Donald Byrd, and I’m going to show you all something also after I play the part I sampled.

Donald Byrd – “Wind Parade”

(music: Donald Byrd - “Wind Parade”)

Here we go, the break. That’s the original version. The remix…

(music: Donald Byrd – “Wind Parade”)

All I did was, for both versions, is take different parts of the record.

JEFF “CHAIRMAN” MAO

Right, right. You hear how the bass is so crazy. This is probably my favorite example from this album of the bass just filtered, the sample filtered so crazy heavy. When it starts, that track starts, it’s like wow.

(music: Black Moon - “Buck Em Down” intro)

5FT

I mean it’s everything.

Buckshot

Yeah, everything filtered.

JEFF “CHAIRMAN” MAO

Yeah, everything is super filtered, and just to hear where it comes from is just…

DJ Evil Dee

First of all, that’s another thing I have to explain to y’all, in the studio we use the SP-1200 and the [Akai S-]950, but in my house, I was doing all the filters and everything on a Akai 612, which is the predecessor, the first sampler before the 900 and 950 series, and the filter on that is so incredible.

5FT

The old stuff, they got the good filters.

DJ Evil Dee

Yeah, it’s like forget about it. The filters was just berserk. You know, once again, put the record together. Buckshot comes in, 5 comes in, and Buckshot comes up, “Yo, the chorus is going to be ‘Buck Em Down.’“ I was like, “All right, buck ‘em down, buck ‘em down, buck ‘em down, buck ‘em down!” Cats going back and forth.

BUCKSHOT

Nothing was more better. Me and Dru Ha always talk about that, the fun that we had in the studio doing each chorus because in the chorus there would always be somebody that had to get kicked out the room, because we could hear it. We’d be like, “Buck ‘em down! Buck ‘em down! Buck ‘em down! Buck ‘em down!” They’d be like, “Yo, who is off? Who is…?” “Buck ‘em down! Buck ‘em down!” He be like, “Wait a minute. Do me a favor. Everybody say it again. It’s you! Come on out of the booth for a second. Everybody do it again. There we go!”

DJ Evil Dee

If you was fucking up, you got kicked out.

BUCKSHOT

That happened on a lot of choruses.

5FT

That’s how it went down, aw man, yeah, crazy.

DJ Evil Dee

My thing was this, if you came to the studio, you came to work. If you came inside that room, you was going to be put to work, and it was like, “All right, oh, you here today? You hanging out? No, you’re not.”

Buckshot

You’re getting in the chorus.

5ft

Word up!

DJ Evil Dee

It’s funny, because there’s people who do backgrounds on Enta Da Stage who I have not seen since we did the record, but they’re voice is on the record.

JEFF “CHAIRMAN” MAO

It sounds like all of Brooklyn is doing background for this trip.

DJ Evil Dee

We had girls that came to the studio. They’re on the record, and I don’t know what was going on.

JEFF “CHAIRMAN” MAO

This track, this next one, is another good example of that. “Black Smif-n-Wessun.”

Black Moon – “Black Smif-N-Wessun”

(music: Black Moon - “Black Smif-n-Wessun” / applause)

Buckshot

[laughs]Oh, man. He was just getting, I mean the beats was just getting better.

5FT

Yo, when I say to like it was the blessing, like it was the flow. We was just flowing. You come to the studio every day, have an agenda to get something done. It was like no real format, you know what I’m saying? Yo, that vibe that they brought right there was real nice..

Buckshot

E was just, like I said, the beats, it was like, at that time, it was like every day they would bring a beat. It was just like, “Another murderer? Another?” Every beat that they gave us, we used. It wasn’t a go through a shuffle of beats, that wasn’t the case.

5FT

Nah, nah, it was none of that. We went in the studio, he made the beat right there, or had the idea, you know what I’m saying? It came through. We clicked with it. That’s how we was working.

DJ Evil Dee

The funny thing about that record is that’s Ahmad Jamal “Misdemeanor,” and I really wanted to sample the Foster Sylvers joint, but there was no clear part. So one of the things that I got into beat-shopping is buying every version of a record that I like. Like, for instance, the record, “Aquarius,” I have like a hundred different versions of “Aquarius,” because I like that record. The thing about it is, when you buy different versions, you hear different things. I sampled the record, and it’s funny because Premier sampled the record also, so I was like, “Damn. I don’t want to compete with this dude. I’ve got to make mines kind of a little bit more…” So I got the Lonnie Liston [Smith, not Liston - ed] Drives drums, which is the same drums from “Can I Kick It?,” and just looped that up and just chopped, sat there and chopped up the different violin parts. Then, the last thing I added to it, was that Ninjaman? I think Ninjaman. The funny thing was, I seen the Ninjaman on a VCR tape. It was one of the Jamaican jams, and what happened was, he said that, and I don’t know, maybe the plug came out, it just said, “Anything test mon me clean from my gun. Mmm-mmm-mmm,” and you just heard a mad hum, and I was like, “Yo, I need to sample that.” DJ Shadow must’ve been thinking the same thing because I bought a Shadow record, on the Shadow record was the same thing, so I just took it straight of his record.

[laughter]

Buckshot

That record also introduced Smif-n-Wessun to the world. I react the way I react because I love them so much, and they were childhood friends of mine. They went to school with my sister. Thanks to my sister, my sister actually brought me and 5FT to do a show with her at the Apollo. She was performing at the Apollo with Steele. Steele from Smif-n-Wessun actually was an MC before we… Listen, he had a group, it was called Steele and the MOST Clan. I was a fan of his when my sister brought his tape home. We did a show with him, and after that show, I always was like, “Yo,” and I was still dancing.” Just on some real stuff, Steele was the one who kind of coached me to be a better MC. Steele was the one that really put the mic in my hand. Before that, I used to mess with him, you know what I mean? Steele used to come to my house and sit on the chair and rhyme for hours without for no reason. I used to sit there and go like this and be like, “This dude’s so nice, I could just keep doing this all day.” I just stayed around him so when we did the album, I say, “Y’all got to be on this album. The minute I get a record deal, I promise you, man, I’m going to get me a record deal, and y’all going to get on the album.” And that’s what happened.

DJ Evil Dee

The funny thing was, Buckshot came to my house, and he was just like, “Yo, E, it’s this dude named MC Steele. MC Steele this and MC Steele that.” I was like, “Yo, my man, that’s cool, but let’s do our stuff first, then you can bring MC Steele and the clique and the clan.” It’s ill because when I met Steele, that’s when I was like, “Oh, I see what you’re talking about,” and Steele had his homeboy who never said a word. He would just stand there and look at everybody like they crazy.

5FT

His homeboy Tek.

DJ Evil Dee

I was surprised when I first heard Tek rhyme because I didn’t think he could speak. He was so quiet, yo. This dude Tek would just be in the background, just on some…

Buckshot

Not saying nothing.

DJ Evil Dee

”What’s up?”

Buckshot

Not saying a word.

DJ Evil Dee

He did not say a word. You’d be like, “Yo, what up, Tek?” He’d be like…

Buckshot

Don’t look mean or nothing like that but just be like… That’s it.

JEFF “CHAIRMAN” MAO

 [laughs] All right, let’s go on to our next track. This is 5’s solo track, “Son Get Wrec.”

Black Moon – “Son Get Wrec”

(music: Black Moon - “Son Get Wrec” / applause]

5, what do you want to say about this track?

5FT

Yo, the original track that we had for that was the same beat that Lil Kim used for “No Time.” That was the original beat that we had. We couldn’t get the sample clearance at that time, so that’s why we end up using this one, and that was fire, that was fire, straight like that.

DJ Evil Dee

I’ll be honest, though. I like this version better than the first version because this version at the time was more Black Moon to me.

Buckshot

Yeah.

DJ Evil Dee

It’s like the first version I used the “[Message From The] Soul Sisters” joint. Then I had some drums looped up. I had the “Cheeba Cheeba” drums looped up to it, and it just sounded crazy to me. I was like, “This is not a go. It doesn’t sound right.” It’s funny because that version ended up coming out anyway.

JEFF “CHAIRMAN” MAO

Oh yeah?

DJ Evil Dee

Yeah, that’s the whole different story.

JEFF “CHAIRMAN” MAO

Okay, on that other record.

DJ Evil Dee

No, I’m say, Diggin’ in dah Vaults, you know? Diggin’ in dah Vaults, was a bunch of stuff that didn’t make Enta Da Stage, and it was a bunch of practice sessions and four-track sessions, and the remixes thrown onto a CD and given to the people. That, I was angry at that album, but you know what? People wanted it so they got it, so hey.

JEFF “CHAIRMAN” MAO

Yeah, that song actually has one of my favorite lyrics on this album too, which is when you say: “Blew out his brains, left them on the dinner table, went home, puffed a herb, and watched a little cable.”[laughs]

5FT

Yo, that is crazy. I listen to that to this day, and yo, I was in the zone back then, to be honest with you. I don’t know where that even came from, but like I said, we was just expressing ourselves, how we felt, how certain things to an extent was an element of where we was coming up in company, you know what I’m saying? While that situation or scenario wasn’t actually happening, those are things that were actually happening at that time.

JEFF “CHAIRMAN” MAO

Yeah, all right, we’re going to go on to “Make Munne.”

Black Moon – “Make Munne”

(music: Black Moon - “Make Munne” / applause)

DJ Evil Dee

Yo, that record, that’s one of the beats that I wish I made. That was produced by Mr. Walt, when he played that for me, I was like, “Yo, this is crazy.” He was like, “Yo, that’s for y’all.” You know what I’m saying? I was like, “Yo, you know, I hope when Buck and them hear it they like it.” As soon as they heard it, it was like, they just went and did what they had to do.

Buckshot

Monster. Monster. I mean, it was like saying, the best way for me to describe what was going on at the time lyrically is that we’re extremists, and if we were told to go in and take out the enemy, we going to take him out. If we were told to let it be known how we going to take it down, then we going to let it be known in the most extreme way, because we extreme.

5FT

We was going full throttle. We was going full throttle with this project. It was like no holds barred, so we gave it more than 110% to make sure that we give quality music, quality lyrics, and a real good quality album at that time of like when we had [Big Daddy] Kane at that time, you had the conglomerate, heavy hitters that was already doing the damn thing, you know what I’m saying? We was like, “Yo, we got to come hard so we can be able to compete or keep up or be involved.” That’s the determination and energy that we put on us when we was putting this album together.

Buckshot

It was pressure. Don’t get it twisted. It was a lot of pressure.

5FT

Lot of pressure.

Buckshot

Because like I said, the pressure came from the fact that it was like every single time E or Walt or Beatminerz brought a beat to the table, it was fire. For that zone and that moment, that vibe we was in, it matched the criteria. It matched the zone. It was fire. That’s a lot of pressure on a person [handle]. Not saying you looking for the track the next day that’s going to be like, “Oh, that’s okay, you going to come with another one. That’ll give me a day to get my lyrics together, whatever.” Every day, every time they came with a track, it was fire, so it was like, “Damn!”

JEFF “CHAIRMAN” MAO

Right.

Buckshot

That pressure of going, “Okay, this one got to be as good as the last one,” so it was a lot of pressure.

JEFF “CHAIRMAN” MAO

Yeah, okay, let’s go onto [the next song].

Black Moon – “Slave”

(music: Black Moon – “Slave” / applause)

5FT

This was another one of those tracks that was crazy, even at this point when we did do this song, of just like when Buck was taking his flows to a whole other level every time. Every time, and E and Walt, they was coming with that fire every time. That pressure and that fire right there was what helped created good songs like this, you know what I’m saying?

Buckshot

That’s all I can say, like he just said. I tried not to over-concentrate on it like that, but if we talking about real stuff and we being real, like this is like a real conversation we having, and just to be real, those flows and I said “trapped.” Funny, I just said something about the pressure before that, but I said “trapped.” “Trapped in a mind of a trap with a n---a like me.” There was nothing conventional for me to go rhyme-with-wise. I didn’t follow people. There were no rhyme schools. There was nothing. It was pure go off of your heart and what you think. A lot of that stuff was just me taking a chance, literally, and going, “I don’t know how they going to react to this.” The average person that get on mic be like, “Well, this dude’s going to open, so after dark…” Here I am going, “I’m getting the… ah! I’m getting the… ah!” So lot of it was just simply the pressure and “Be you, Buck,” and Black Moon is…

5FT

There was no pre-play or nothing. There was no pre-play.

Buckshot

It really is just spirited, being you and taking a chance.

JEFF “CHAIRMAN” MAO

Yeah, okay. We’re going to go into “I Got Cha Opin,” right?

Black Moon – “I Got Cha Opin”

(music: Black Moon - “I Got Cha Opin” / applause)

Buckshot

Mr. Walt.

DJ Evil Dee

He put that together. I don’t know, I think I came up with the scratch, or did you come up with it, with the chorus?

Buckshot

It seems like the chorus, “I Got Cha Opin,” I did the words, yeah, but the scratching…

DJ Evil Dee

Yeah, the scratch, okay, I came up with the scratch.

Buckshot

I would’ve come up with the scratch but my hand doesn’t work to start with.

[laughter]

DJ Evil Dee

Yeah.

JEFF “CHAIRMAN” MAO

I feel like people, everybody knows the remix, but the people who know that this…

Buckshot

I got to thank, I definitely, my major beat is coming up, I definitely got to big up one person. He’s not in Black Moon. He’s not a part of Black Moon, but he might as well be. I seen him in every video. He’s a face that’s in every video, in every show, a thousand [times]. His name is Mighty Real. He’s from Coney Island, because I grew up on Coney Island. His name is Mighty Real. I’m with Mighty every day, every, every day. Mighty was with us through this whole album, and I big up Mighty because he was a big part of the pressure. Mighty has a lot to do with a lot of those flows and stuff like that. Each night I be at my house, and me and him would sit down. He would say, “Yo, what you going to come up with next? What type of flow you going to do on this one?” I would be like, “I don’t know, I got to…” He would every night in different times, it would be a flow thing with Mighty. On “I Got Cha Opin,” the original, that’s why I was talking on it. “I go from flow to flow… Do this, be like, well, how’d you do that? Be like you all that. Never forget that I’m…” I was like, “All right, I got you.”

JEFF “CHAIRMAN” MAO

Even the way this, you come in on this record, it’s kind of tricky because as a listener, you’re hearing for where the beat starts, and you come in…

Buckshot

Kind of, a little off.

JEFF “CHAIRMAN” MAO

You’re not quite sure where the loop starts. It comes around later where you can figure it out, but it’s tricky.

Buckshot

Had a lot of fun doing. Had a lot of fun, like I said, just had a lot of fun.

5FT

It’s playing around with stuff. Just experimenting. Word!

JEFF “CHAIRMAN” MAO

All right, next. This is one of several songs from that era entitled “Shit Iz Real,” but one of the best…

Black Moon – “Shit Iz Real”

(music: Black Moon - “Shit Iz Real” / applause)

DJ Evil Dee

Yo!

Buckshot

Yup!

DJ Evil Dee

That record right there, I was experimenting. I was in the studio, me and Swift who was engineering at the time, they had this piece of outboard gear called the Ultra-Harmonizer. The Ultra-Harmonizer, today they would call it, what’s that T-Pain shit? Auto-Tune. That was yesterday’s Auto-Tune. People would use that to tune their vocals. I think Al B. Sure! probably lived with one, you know? What it is, is I was in the studio with Swift, and I sampled something, and he meant to send it through the compressor, and he sent it through the Ultra-Harmonizer, and the pitched changed, but it was still going the same speed, so I was like, “Yo, on the real, maybe I could tune the samples and sound more, it could match more musically.” This record is what that is. Basically, the drums is a Dennis Coffey record, “Whole Lotta Love.” The horn is a song called “Love Song to Katherine,” which is John Klemmer. The keys is “Riding High” Faze-O, and what it is, is I tuned everything to the bassline, the “California Soul,” and it just worked. To me, as a producer, that was like experiment to the extreme back then. Cats heard that, and it was funny some cats heard it, and it was like, “Yo, what you sampled?” I’m like, “Records in front of your face.” All those records are common records. It’s not like a record that you have to dig for, and you got the results right there.

JEFF “CHAIRMAN” MAO

I want to ask one specific thing about this song before we go to the next one. There’s a part in there towards the end of the record where there’s this crazy drama going on in the background. It’s like part of the mood of the whole song and what you guys are talking about. What’s going on there in the background with all this drama and everything? Is it just something you guys decided you wanted to do?

Buckshot

That was just real stuff. That was just real stuff.

5FT

He was like, “Yo, we need something, we need got to put something on the end of this record.” So we was mad twisted, [laughs] we was blasted. Back then, niggas was drinking St. Ives, smoking hella reefers.

DJ Evil Dee

Not me. I wasn’t doing shit.

5FT

It was violent. It was violent.

Buckshot

It was polite though, we had so much fun in the booth that day, that 5 started just whiling out, and going like this from mic to mic, and we going, “Chill, man, chill!”

DJ Evil Dee

I’m going to tell you what happened, right? First of all, like I said, if you came to the studio, you was going to work that day, so I made everybody go to the vocal booth, and I was like, “Yo, 5, I just need y’all to go in there and go, ‘Hoo-oooh!’ at the end of the record.” Not 5! 5 goes in there, he pushes somebody, and he just starts whiling out, talking about, “Shit is mad real! What n---r!” And everybody just starts whiling, and I’m like, “Yo, chill, 5! Chill 5!” And you hear this on the record.

Buckshot

You can’t see 5, but  see him. He’s laughing behind the mic going [laughs], “What?”

DJ Evil Dee

I’m like, “Yo 5! Chill!” Yo, but at the end when I listened to it, I was like, “Yo, we can’t change that. That is perfect right there.”

Buckshot

We going to keep all this. [laughs]

JEFF “CHAIRMAN” MAO

All right, title track.

Black Moon – “Enta Da Stage”

(music: Black Moon - “Enta da Stage” / applause)

All right. Yes, sir.

5FT

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Buckshot

Word up! What’s up?

DJ Evil Dee

Mr. Walt on the beats again.

Buckshot

Mr. Walt on the production once again.

DJ Evil Dee

Wicked.

Buckshot

One of those tracks where it’s like, you know, we going through the stages. We going through the stages. This is real. This is not the days of shopping a demo and it’s coming back a rejection, and you know that’s what it is. We’ve made it, and this is Nervous [Records], and this is the real deal, and the album is being done, and it’s either going to pop or it’s going to drop. All of that stuff is going down through the minds of all of us when we making these records and making into the stage, and to the stage of it, it’s like black rock funk trouble.

5FT

We was blessed to have Mr. Walt. Because they’re two different type of producers. Mr. Walt is a laid-back, slow flow, ill, melodic, wicked dark, and E was more up-tempo, hard, heavy bass, bang out-type producer. Their combinations in the music and how they put it together also is why the album sounds the way it does.

JEFF “CHAIRMAN” MAO

I love the way those last two tracks go from one into another. It’s almost like one song but broken into two. Okay, two more tracks on this album. This is the second single off of this album. “How Many MCs.”

Black Moon – “How Many MCs (Must Get Dissed)”

(music: Black Moon - “How Many MCs” / applause)

DJ Evil Dee

Mmm-mmm.

Buckshot

That joint right there, man. You know what I mean? I’m going to definitely let E finish speaking on it. I just want to definitely say that joint is even, I think, more special to me now because when we did that record, I always had visions of doing the video, my first video, or really doing the video in the projects where I grew up at and then the house and the family where I grew up at, my grandma’s, she’s like the second mother every day. Going over there to do the video was kind of ill for me because you’re looking at video we got all of our family in the video. That’s all brothers and cousins and everybody in the project. My godmother, Mama, Carol Miller, she recently passed. She always had that vision like, “You know what? Go out there and really do your thing.” Man, Mama was like the mama from Mama’s House.

5FT

For real.

Buckshot

She raised everybody. When I hear that music now, I think about that. I think about the fact that we was able to get it done, and she was able to see stuff like that happen. That video, like I said, that video is shot in the place that made it all for me, you know what I’m saying, as a person. I think of her when I think of “How Many MCs” and her looking out the window, you know what I’m saying?

DJ Evil Dee

That, Mr. Walt put that together. Buck actually co-produced that because Buck was like, “Y’all want to rhyme off of ‘Hydra’?” And me and Walt at the same time was like, “Nope, nope, nope.”

JEFF “CHAIRMAN” MAO

Grover Washington Jr., “Hydra.”

DJ Evil Dee

Yeah, we was like, “Nah, we not going to loop that up. One day, Walt say, “We got to stop being stubborn. Let’s make it happen.”

5ft

Always doing that? “Nope, not looping that.” “Come on, man. Stop playing, loop that, man!”

JEFF “CHAIRMAN” MAO

That’s got the snap on the snare.

DJ Evil Dee

That horn, I added the horn. Me and Walt argue about this all the time. I added that horn. Walt always says I didn’t. But I added that horn in there.

JEFF “CHAIRMAN” MAO

That little... [hums]

DJ Evil Dee

Yeah, that’s “Nobody Beats the Biz.”

JEFF “CHAIRMAN” MAO

Walt stretched it out, the “Biiiiiiiz.”

Buckshot

Once again, did it in the projects, had on clothes that we wear every day. That was my thing. Me and my man Boogie Brown talk about this all the time. I think I was wearing the pattern, Apple Jack hats with the matching… I grew up in my family, we always, everything, they was on some real…

5FT

 ...coordination.

Buckshot

Coordination and stuff in my family.

5FT

A lot of coordination, man.

Buckshot

So all that, you know what I mean?

5FT

Word.

Buckshot

Kenyatta Blake is very cool, word n---a, you know what I’m saying. Buckshot Shorty got a lot of Kenyatta Blake in him, but he also wild too, you know what I’m saying?

5ft

Yeah.

JEFF “CHAIRMAN” MAO

All right, last track. It’s a posse cut. I guess it’s going to be touch to… Well, maybe after Dru’s verse we’ll fade it out. “U Da Man,” last track on Enta Da Stage.

Black Moon – “U Da Man”

(music: Black Moon - “U Da Man” / applause)

JEFF “CHAIRMAN” MAO

That was Havoc from Mobb Deep. So it was 5 starting, Dru Ha…

5FT

Hav.

JEFF “CHAIRMAN” MAO

Hav.

5FT

Tek.

JEFF “CHAIRMAN” MAO

Tek.

5FT

Then, you know.

DJ Evil Dee

Steele too.

5FT

 Then Buckshot.

JEFF “CHAIRMAN” MAO

Yeah.

Buckshot

It was our posse cut for the album. It was our go-all-out song for the album. It was like as to close to rapping out, and it was a fun song, and once again, Dru Ha, who was our partner in Duck Down, when I met Dru, he was working for Nervous, and he was actually a MC. Dru the mastermind, he had a crew, his homeboys before, but when he was working with the label, he would always put me onto his MC skills and his talents, stuff like that. One thing I respected about Dru was he had an ear for production and the mind. When we did the album, I said, “You know what? I’m going to get everybody who I rock with that’s cool with me to get on this cut.” Dru was one of them. I knew Havoc before he got a record deal, so me and Havoc used to call each other’s houses and stuff like that. When I used to speak with his mother, she screamed at me for calling him Havoc. But I called him and said, “Yo, I’m doing this song? Can both y’all come down, you and Prodigy come down and get on it?” They both came down, Prodigy wasn’t feeling too well, and Havoc came down, and Havoc did the verse on there, and it was special, you know what I’m saying? I come from Crown Heights, Franklin Avenue. I come from everywhere in Brooklyn, but at the time, it was like really resorting heavy with Caribbean, Jamaican, Trinidadian, Barbados, Guyanese, you know what I’m saying? You know, Haitian, everybody is around where I come from. All of that music is embodied in that song. I’m coming with the “yardie” style, you know what I mean? I’m chatting on there because I’m letting people know, “Yo, this is…” You know what I mean? I’m letting everybody know it’s a universal thing, lyrically inclined.

JEFF “CHAIRMAN” MAO

Now that we’ve gone through all the tracks, we’ve got time, I think, for maybe two questions.

DJ Evil Dee

Two whole questions.

JEFF “CHAIRMAN” MAO

Two questions from the audience, I think, we can take at this point? Three? Three questions from the audience.

DJ Evil Dee

Three whole questions.

JEFF “CHAIRMAN” MAO

If there are three individuals out there who had questions, maybe somebody can find a microphone and get it to you, or you can just speak up.

BUCKSHOT

Tell him what happen if you really come to my house. [laughs]

Audience Member

Yes, my name is Brian Odin, BKO Management. Shameless plug. Anyway, I’m from down south. Originally, I’m from Atlanta, and this is my first time in a borough, New York City, Brooklyn, and I just want to say, man, you guys’ music really took the culture to somewhere else. When I hear your music, I hear everything. I used to go to a historically black college and universities, you know what I’m saying, around the same time your music came out. Was there a plan and promotion that you guys set to promote it at HBCU’s, or was it just something organic?

Buckshot

It was organic.

5FT

Everything was organic.

DJ Evil Dee

It was definitely organic.

Buckshot

We had no idea what a marketing plan is. We didn’t know. Everything was yo, radio, and get the DJ list, and start shipping.

DJ Evil Dee

My whole things was, it wasn’t about marketing and promotion. It was about just making a good album, you know what I’m saying? We sat down, and I think that’s one of the things about this album that was ill is we sat and said, “Let’s make a good hip hop album.” We didn’t sit there and go to an A&R.

Buckshot

We was too young. We didn’t know about that.

DJ Evil Dee

As a matter of fact, y’all was busy too much arguing with Michael Weiss, because Michael Weiss was on some, “Yo, C&C Music Factory don’t take this long to do a record. What you doing?” We was going back and forth doing that, you know what I’m saying?

BUCKSHOT

We had fun, and all the black colleges that picked it up, all the universities that picked it up, they picked it up because it was a organic movement, you know what I’m saying?

Buckshot

Man, before we got a deal, we loved the culture, what we called hip hop. We did that, from graffiti to the music to the dancing, like, we did that with a passion. You know what I’m saying? That was every day. We danced every day, you know what I’m saying? We did that music every day. We lived and breathed that, you know what I’m saying? We’ve been fans of the music since the early ’80s, so it wasn’t hard really for us to do what we did. Did we know that it was going to have an impact? Nah. That was all blood, sweat and tears and passion to be a part of the culture, you know what I’m saying? Like we said, there was never nothing preplanned. We didn’t know nothing. What’s a marketing [plan]? Nothing. We didn’t know until after the album came out and the things that we had to encounter after that dealing with Nervous. Then we started dwelling and getting deeper into the marketing aspect or the business when I say the business aspect of it actually.

JEFF “CHAIRMAN” MAO

All right, two more questions we’ve got time for.

Audience Member

Yeah, peace. DJ Kevin. What’s up?

DJ Evil Dee

All right.

Audience Mamber

All right, what’s up, people? Buck just touched on it basically with like the Caribbean influence, but I was just wondering more like some of the cultural things that you were dealing with, even just the language, like it’s “I Got Cha Opin,” right? You know, you use the DA a lot. It’s like a Brooklyn, kind of unique to Brooklyn, just like the Caribbean influence. This is like a 5% influence kind of on the first album.

5FT

Mmm-hmm. [affirmative]

Audience Member:

Evil Dee is in Bushwick. You’ve got Dr. York and stuff like this, just some of the more cultural aspects of it, I’d be very interested in knowing, and if you have like an awareness of how big it was.

Buckshot

If you look on the album cover, 5 is wearing a six-pointed star and crescent on the album cover, because that’s how we rolled in Bushwick. We was big news in Bushwick, so we rolled with Bushwick. That’s how we connected with a lot of MCs before they were MCs, like Jay-Z and certain people.

DJ Evil Dee

Jaz-O.

Buckshot

Jaz-O, these people, we…

5FT

Onyx..

Buckshot

Onyx. These are people that we was a part of without even considering music. It had nothing to do with it. It just happened to be coincidence, so that was one of them.

5FT

We always had knowledge itself, if that’s the same, pertaining to the question. We did a lot of deep studying. We definitely were aware of the history and acknowledge of the struggles that our peoples had to go through and experience. We definitely from that aspect that we was in deep.

Buckshot

It has a lot to do with the lyrics too. You listen to the lyrics, you know it’s like you hear some of the rhyme lyrics that just are rhymes, but those rhymes got certain flows because of the Caribbean influence, because of you listen to some of the yardies, you listen to some of the best tunes. Nobody can flow like… you know what I mean? The Caribbean brothers, man, from all nations, nobody can flow like the yardies. Whether they be from GT, Guyanese, you hear Sizzla, you hear Bounty [Killer], you hear…

5FT

Buju [Banton].

Buckshot

All, not anybody, but all my dudes like Buju, Supercat, you know what I’m saying, all of them right now, even Sirani, I mean, everybody got a certain type [of flow], “Everywhere I go…” You know what I mean? That’s that, and that’s…

5FT

That’s that soul. That’s that soul music. I would consider this album for me is our soul music at that time. That’s what we was vibing on all the time anyway was the soul music. Like you said, what makes you want to clap your finger and feel the vibe and the energy, pulling on and building on a certain level. Energy. We did that naturally, and it was the blessing of being able to dance for a lot of us to deliver that energy through the music. They work in hand, like Buck said. Early, when we write, we listen to the music, we dancing. When the eyes is closed, the eyes is zoning, we in the zone writing music. We dancing in our head.

Buckshot

For some people, this is probably irrelevant, but just for some people, they always ask me this question, “Why do I use my finger when I rhyme?” It’s just because I can’t dance any. I can still dance, but I don’t dance, so I got to dance this way, and as I’m rhyming, I’m following my own dance steps. It was definitely a super-duper pleasure to be blessed to do Enta Da Stage as an album. Last but not least, especially because Evil Dee know that we wanted this so bad, so, so bad, that at MCA records, I used to take all of the demos that people didn’t want, the garbage demos they would throw away, and I would take them and take all the stuff out of them, and I used to Xerox copy our own artwork and draw it, and then I measure up to size to exactly where if you cut it like that, when you fold it, it will fit into the cassette so when you turn to the side, it would look like Black Moon was done by the computer. I was really crazy with it, and for it to actually come out, it was like thank the Creator. Thank you, you know what I mean?

JEFF “CHAIRMAN” MAO

Do we have time for one last one? Yeah, one last question over here on the left.

Audience Member

What’s going on? Damon from Washington Heights.

Buckshot

What’s up, Damon?

Audience Member

When I got your album, I was in middle school, and if you had a middle school crew, Enta Da Stage was your anthem. You rolled to it. I think really what we related so much to it because you would listen to Buckshot Shorty, and we used to everybody like, “Yo, Shorty, Shorty, Shorty.” Everyone would call it Shorty, and it was like, “Yo, this is our champion right here.”

Buckshot

Word.

Audience Member

Also, your voice changes multiple times on the album, and our voices were changing at that time, so I just want to ask sort of stylistically, if you even listen to “Buck Em Down” between the original track and then the remix, your voice is deeper. I guess today they would call it swag, I guess.

Buckshot

You know what? That’s funny, because today I often tell people, watch the two, because there’s a real thin line. I got a homeboy who had a son, and we were just talking about that some people replace swag with ego. It’s okay to have swagger, and it’s okay to feel ego, but know when and where to feel and do both. Most people replace ego with swagger. So that’s, “Yo, what’s up?” “No, I’m nice, man…” I never did that because the people is going to be the determination of the bottom line. If you do have swagger, I would hope that it’s just a natural swagger. That means that truthfully I wasn’t conscious of none of that stuff. I knew that my voice was getting deeper, I’m getting older, but at the same time, I always had an older mentality. When I’m rhyming, I’m not going... [mumbles], but I am coming hard. I’m not really conscious, and I really thought it was not a good thing that my voice was that deep. I was more on the negative side than a positive, because I’m hearing other MCs and other songs, and I’m like, “See, I want to sound clear like them.” I felt like a lot of my stuff wasn’t that clear. When the people said, “No, we like that,” I was like, “Thank God,” because I swear, it’s natural, and you know what I’m saying? That’s it.

JEFF “CHAIRMAN” MAO

We’ve got time for one last question, I’m told. So one last question.

Audience Member

My name’s Chris Lighty. [laughs]I just want to know, the thing that I hated the most...

DJ Evil Dee

Uh-oh. Okay. I need to prepare for this one. [laughs]

Audience Member

Why didn’t you come to Def Jam? [laughs]

DJ Evil Dee

[screams]

5FT

Yo! We out! Peace! Thank you! [laughs]

DJ Evil Dee

Oh my God. Oh my God.

Buckshot

I got a call, I was at my house, I was in a room, I was sharing a room, our brother, and I got a call, and I could not believe it. Chris Lighty and Def Jam wants to meet up with you guys, and I was like, “That’s not true.” They was like, “Yeah, it is true.” We met up with Chris [Hicks], and Lyor [Cohen] in Manhattan and it was raining that day. It was raining that day, and we were sitting at a dinner spot, and to be honest with you, I remember as I go back to it, and I think my instincts say cool. Mind say, “What the hell?” You know what I’m saying? At the time, when I think about it, all I remember is these guys saying, “Okay, so we’re ready. What you want to do?” I just remember saying in my head, “I know I want my own label. I want my own label.” I mean, Chris is right there, but the message was kind of like, “You know, we want to start with Black Moon first, and after we work with Black Moon, then we could pick up…” The crazy thing, the reason, the real reason too is because I was, I had heard that prior twice already, and I was like, “Man, if I can’t bring Heltah Skeltah, Smif-n-Wessun, anybody at one time, I can’t do this. This is the family. This is the crew.” You know, I actually, just without getting into full detail, I said, “What about my own van?” They said, “Well, you can have your own van. We’ll get you a Def Jam. We’ll get you van.” I was like, “I don’t want you to get me a van, I want my own van. I want to buy one and it to be ours and we drive around any time.” In my head, I was thinking, “Yeah, you gonna get it whenever you want. Man, I want to own that.” I’m thinking there’s a lot of other artists who’s going to be like, “Yeah, we want…” So, it was a few of those things, and the bottom line was, you know what? The biggest, the hardest decision, I don’t even know, when I think back to it, that was ever made. I said, “I want to go there,” you know what I’m saying, “but unfortunately, they want to take Black Moon right now and not Smif and not the rest of my crew.” It really was like the biggest opportunity of my life, biggest situation, the biggest label, the best individuals in the game. My crew, my family, my brothers, dudes that struggled with me. What the hell do I do? Buckshot was like, “I’m going to go with my family,” you know what I’m saying, and I would hope that I respect and I love the fact that I even had the opportunity for them to even consider us, you know what I’m saying? The truth is, I can’t do that. I can’t leave my brothers. Chris to this day always talk about how he respect that move that I made. It was the hardest decision in the world, I swear to God.

5FT

It’s always been an independent mission since day one, you know what I’m saying? We didn’t know how or what was going to happen, but like I said, we was exploring, finding ourselves and trying to find our niche and take things in a direction where we can build and express our talents and let our talents be known.

Buckshot

 ”You turned down a deal from Def Jam? You crazy? Shit!”

DJ Evil Dee

You could’ve had a TV in every room. [laughs]

5FT

That was divine intervention. I say that to this day, that was divine intervention, because we was young at that time.

JEFF “CHAIRMAN” MAO

Well, we don’t know what kind of record, what would happen, but we do know that Enta Da Stage is this album that we all love and we’re celebrating here today.

DJ Evil Dee

Thank you.

JEFF “CHAIRMAN” MAO

I think we actually have to wrap it up, so if everybody could just say thanks again.

5FT

Thanks very much, man.

Chairman

Black Moon.

DJ Evil Dee

Thank you.

Buckshot

Thank you, man.

JEFF “CHAIRMAN” MAO

Buckshot, Evil Dee, and 5ft.

Buckshot

Thank y’all.

DJ Evil Dee

Thank y’all.

Buckshot

We’re definitely going to tear down the night.

5FT

Get your energy up.

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