Maseo

COGNITO

Yes, yes. So this is incredible, like, word?

[laughter]

Once again, my story kind of is the same thing.

Maseo

Let me first say my rebuttal to Shaheed. God does have a sense of humor. He made DJ Maseo.

[laughter]

COGNITO

No doubt, no doubt. Word. Yeah, 1989, man. Three Feet High and Rising. [applause]

Once again, I’m 19-years-old, can’t believe what I’m hearing. It’s like, “What? You all are talking to me.” This isn’t like listening to “The Message.” I knew all the words to “The Message” at nine-, ten-years-old, but I didn’t known what none of that meant, but something about this cut right here, which I bet y’all didn’t know, this is the man that produced it.

(music: De La Soul – “Me Myself and I” / applause)

Tell me about that record, man. How old were you when you did that?

Maseo

I was actually 15-years-old when I was playing around with it on the sampler. I had a Casio SK-1 sampler I bought from Wiz Records and Tapes.

COGNITO

[sings] ”Nobody beats the Wiz!”

Maseo

It had the little four orange pads on it that you could play with the different samples. You could sample four different compositions, and you had to put it up to the speaker. There was no input to get real audio, so I put it up to the speaker to get the sound I was trying to catch. It took forever to do, but when I finally got it, it was on, put it down to the four-track. We only really had three tracks to really work with, but put it down to the four-track, and I sat on it since 1985. I was 15. I was working with a different artist at that time, a different rapper at that time. It was my uncle’s best friend, lived around the corner. My uncle went to school, actually graduated high school with him. They graduated high school with him and Prince Paul. I had moved to Long Island around ’84, so ’85, things started really kind of picking up behind DJing and I playing basketball around the neighborhood. Brooklyn cats, we just get everywhere. I’m originally from Brooklyn New York where Ali’s from, and trying to do that song for the other rapper, he didn’t like it, just as much as my group don’t like it as well. He didn’t like it. Paul always thought it was cool, but it wasn’t his project. We were both called onto a project, me as just a new cat with new energy and Paul as the senior around the neighborhood who was doing this thing with Stetsasonic already. The person that signed the rapper - I don’t want to say his name - but the person that signed the rapper, my uncle’s friend, he was my music teacher. He taught at Amityville Junior High School and High School. He also wrote for Surface, and he wrote for the Isley Brothers, and he saw the ‘surgence of hip hop growing at that period in time, so he started an independent label and wanted to put this guy out. We did a covered version of “God...,” not “God Make Me Funky” but “Seven Minutes of Funk.” It was wack. Really, really wack. Really, really, really wack. Really, really, really wack. Paul and I really connected behind this project. We went out in the car, had to be two-three in the morning, one session, spending so much time working on one record. He truly asked me, how did I feel about this? I was like, “Yo man, I really don’t like it.” I was like, “I even told them I don’t like it”” but at 15, this was my opportunity to go to the studio, go further than the four-track, and embark upon my dream. It wasn’t working for me, it wasn’t working for Paul, and that’s where we really connected at that point. I was like, “I really got some other stuff I want to play for you.” That was the stuff I had been working on with… I call them Dave and Merce, y’all. You know them as Trugoy and Posdnuos. Dave was Trugoy. Posdnuos is Merce. These are my childhood friends. They were closet MCs. No one knew they rapped. No one. Pos actually used to DJ a little something. Dave used to do the human beat box. They used to be part of another group called EZ Street, like a year prior to us really connecting, and Dave wrote the rhymes for everybody, so did Pos, but Pos DJed, and Dave was the human beat box, and he was really good. The turn of the guards came ’85, summer school. We was all going to summer school. The school was right across the street from my house, so we were done with class like by 11 a.m., so we piling up at my house. We got together behind a mutual friend who was a fourth member of the group. Can’t mention his name either. Sorry, folks. He was actually the person who brought us all together. Really, when we heard Ultramagnetic [MCs], and I have to also say when we saw Doug E Fresh and the Get Fresh Crew and Slick Rick, it was featuring MC Ricky D at the time, and we was like, “Wow, a four-man group, two DJs, Chill Will, Barry B.” That’s who me and the other cat was like. We was like our own version of Chill Will and Barry B. But he became pretty obnoxious, something that didn’t fit the followed and wound up X-ing himself out. Paul didn’t want to work with him either, but when it all came together, he was out the picture. Paul told us to come to the studio, actually come by his house, and we had a meeting. Once I played him the demos, he was like, “This is everything I’ve been trying to do with Stet, so I would like for you all to come by my house, and let’s talk about this.” The first thing he said out the gate: “We can definitely take this to the studio and clean it up. I can’t make anybody any promises. I don’t know if you’re going to get a deal or not, but this is definitely something I’m into creatively.” He was playing me all the stuff that he was doing with Stet, and then when I played him the stuff we were doing, he played me some stuff he submitted for Stet that was getting turned down, completely up our alley. We hooked up. The guys was kind of nervous, because here it is: they never rapped publicly. Never until this point in time linking up with Paul. Me, I been DJing since I was 6-years-old. I’ve been carrying records and speakers for other DJs trying to get my time to shine at a block party, and I would catch it. Twelve-years-old, I got my first shot on Woodburn between Wilson and Knickerbocker in Bushwick. That was my first shine, twelve-years-old, being able to DJ a block party. Prior to that, the best party I ever did was my mom’s housewarming party. That was off the chain. I got to stay up crazy late, so I DJed. That was off the hook, ’82, that was a great year. That was like I felt like my induction into hip hop. I felt like I’m a part of this. I started meeting certain people. Stephanie Mills didn’t live too far, and she was into hip hop. They was going to see Grandmaster Flash, places I couldn’t go to.

COGNITO

Right.

Maseo

I was knowing people like her on a first-name basis. Gwen Guthrie, I got to meet her before she passed, I met her in Quad Studios. That’s how long Quad Studios have been around. I met her when I was 14. I mean, I’m like, “Ms. Guthrie,” but she was like, “Honey, call me Gwen.” That was like real moments for me, and I made my first $300 DJing, and I felt like I was in the business, I’m in.

COGNITO

Wait. $300, what year was this?

Maseo

My first $300 DJing, it was ’84. No, ’85, Long Island. It was in Long Island. Kool G Rap came to the party. He had just came out with “It’s a Demo” and all of that, so he was getting around. Actually, DJ Polo had some family in our neighborhood, so they were coming to all the backyard parties. Every rapper was showing up to cookouts. That was the thing. Hip hop for us was on the weekend, even on a mainstream level. It was only on the weekend. If you caught it any other part of the week, it was late-night with the [World Famous] Supreme Team, and if your mother caught you out, you in trouble. [laughs] So the Supreme Team or Mr. Magic or even Dr. Dre from Original Concept, Big Dr. Dre. These were our outlets for hip hop if we didn’t catch Red [Alert] or Chuck Chillout, or Marley [Marl] on the weekend, and it was really late at night or wee hours in the morning. Everybody came out to Long Island, to college parties, to promote whatever they were doing, and when I saw G Rap at a party I was DJing, I was like, “I’m on.” He came up to me, said, “What’s up?” I obviously was doing something right. He was feeling me. He said, “What’s up?” Prince Markie Dee, another one that was coming around early on, so these are people I got familiar with at a very young age before I was even thinking about a record deal, moreso thinking about getting ready for the weekend. My connection with Paul and hearing Rakim come out, hearing Ultramagnetic, of course, Run DMC, that’s when us as a collective said, “We want to really take this serious and make records.” We were already playing around making demos, but to actually want to get out there and pursue this as a dream, it was those groups. It was really Ultramagnetic that was the catalyst to wanting to be different and speak your own language. Let alone, they still had the hardcore Bronx image, but Kool Keith was on something else, man. That was the inspiration to be like, “Yeah, we going to be different. We’re going to come out with our own language. We going to make you believe what we believe.”

COGNITO

“Strickly Dan Stuckie.”

Maseo

Yeah, “Strickly Dan Stuckie” just mean, “Yo, that shit is fresh.” [laughs]It’s fresh. [laughs]

COGNITO

Around that time, with Three Feet High and Rising, there was another particular song that… I mean, “Me, Myself and I” clearly is a song that put you all on the map.

Maseo

Yes.

COGNITO

But there’s a classic on that album, and for that time period, to understand that that album had more tracks than I think any other album in history as far as I knew.

Maseo

To be honest, the record that truly put us on the map was “Potholes In My Lawn.”

COGNITO

Well, yeah, yeah.

Maseo

That was the record that put us on the map. That was the first video, first introduction into mainstream culture. “Plug Tunin’“ got us love in New York, and the name De La Soul got us love with the Latino community.

[laughter]

Everybody thought I was either Dominican or Puerto Rican. Seriously. But it was “Potholes In My Lawn,”and “Jennifer” had played a big role in that also, because that was bouncing off of Jungle Brothers “Jimbrowski.” Jenny was like the answer to “Jimbrowski.”

COGNITO

I say that for me because living in DC, Virginia area, I knew those songs, but it was “Me, Myself and I” that got the general public knowing. I think that video and that song probably got more play than “Potholes” may have.

Maseo

Yeah, it did.

COGNITO

There’s also another song that I want to play right now that you all probably didn’t know he had something to do with this.

(music: De La Soul – “Buddy”/ applause)

I want to ask a question…

Maseo

Thank you, thank you, thank you, salutations, thank you.

COGNITO

[laughs]What happened to the art of the posse cut? This particular song was the epitome of a collaboration at that point in time to where we are today, how people collaborate with each other. Other artists collaborate with each other, but it now seems to be like, “Yo, B, I got this beat, I’m going to pass you this in ProTools, you know what I’m saying? Spit 16 [bars] on there, get back to me.”

Maseo

It’s contrived.

COGNITO

Right. Talk about the process of “Buddy.”

Maseo

It was a natural process. I did the beat, and we had been really just sitting on it. I honestly just happened to walk in the studio one day, and to the right of me was Mike G with a pad, Pos sitting at the mixing desk, Afrika’s in the mic booth. I just walked in, and dudes is laying rhymes to my beat. I have to take a page from Shaheed. That’s God, man, making that happen like that. I just thought it was a cool track. I thought it fit what we were doing. I didn’t expect it to be that. Later come Q-Tip. That was that day, and we all had really just met. A week prior to that, we did a show with Jungle [Brothers] somewhere in Boston. We had been running to each other periodically - [burps] excuse me, Guinness is hitting me. Right before we came out with “Plug Tunin’“ we used to go to Latin Quarters a lot, and everybody at that time was wearing something different or doing something different, especially if you was an up and coming artist, you did something, that signature of yourself. We made these plug clocks. The clock thing was always something that was like... I mean, Flava [Flav] definitely took it to the next level, but wearing the clock, wearing the pouches, that was something that was going on in New York, just Flava epitomized it. We kind of snatched that a little bit. We had these plug clocks, and we had the plug logo that we were wearing to the club, and we would wear these sequined outfits, the Gumby haircut. We just looked different from everybody who was rocking Kangol’s or whatever. We looked crazy. Afrika sorted us out. Red [Alert] sorted us out. Of course, Paul introduced us to everybody, and when everybody got hit with the record, it was really more, that added the extended excitement. Afrika was like, “Wow, we are like Mars, we kind of on the same thing,” and we were like, “Yes, we are. We love the Jungle Brothers.” That was that moment of communication over the music. Then the show came about, then the invitation to the studio. Mind you, I didn’t know they were going to be in the studio. I walk in. Mike with a pad, Afrika in the booth, Pos had the port, Q-Tip comes later. We got this song called “Buddy.” Once the song was done, we immediately start to perform it. I hadn’t even met Ali yet. That was the thing. I myself hadn’t met him yet. I was still in school. Here it is, sorry y’all, but I got left back because I cut school to record Three Feet High and Rising, so I wound up graduating a year later than everybody else. [laughs] Pos had already graduated, Dave had already graduated, and the opportunity kept coming to make this record. I truly was getting ready to head to the military. I was involved with a lot of street culture that I wasn’t very happy with doing myself, so I was really about to go to the military, and I said, “If I’m going to die somewhere, let me go get some medals and die. I mean, not die on these streets around here.” But the Creator is who he is, man. This opportunity kept coming. The gut feeling kept hitting, “You need to do this.” Even my last year, they talked me into playing football. I quit playing football because the dream was clicking. Every time I looked up it was clicking. I managed it somehow. I was going to the club, meeting up with the fellows, then next thing you know getting off the train, going straight to school. My mom didn’t have a clue what was going on. Everything was definitely chaotic. Come on, 17, 18, you’re trying to figure yourself out. You are going through these “identify crises” trying to figure out who you are as a teenager. With this opportunity presenting itself, it was scary, but we pursued it. Pos dropped college. Dave dropped college. Here it is, I’m fumbling with high school, but my intentions was always to finish, which I did. We did the album all through ‘88. Guys waited for me to finish before we really hit the road. I’ll never forget Lyor [Cohen] and Russell [Simmons] coming up to the school, discussing my situation and presenting all of this press and everything that, how well things were taking off, and mind you, there was even a major improvement in my grades. I was tired. I used to miss my first three periods, and mind you, behind missing my first three periods, I even had to go to night school. I did all of that just to finish high school and pursue this dream. It was a scary time but amazing at that point in time, kids just following their dreams and not sure where this thing is going to go. Even when you’re talking to the label, and they’re going, “Yo, this is really great effort, but we don’t expect it to do well. We love this kind of music.” That’s one thing I can say about Tommy Boy. Great place to create. Next to all the… Every label’s wack, but this was the best of the worst, how I feel. We had our freedom, but they didn’t anticipate any success, and I thought, “Okay, after the release of this Three Feet High and Rising, I’m going to the service.” But right after graduation, I was on tour with LL Cool J, NWA, Public Enemy, Too Short, Hammer, 357, the list goes on. It was like the whole hip hop ensemble. Everybody that existed in hip hop and that was somebody, whether you had the hottest record out there at that time with no sales or you had the sales, everybody was on that tour.

COGNITO

That ticket would be like $20.

Maseo

Shit, $20. $20. Now, it’s like $100 plus for one act at that. All of these acts, and ticket would be like $20. Arenas would be packed. It was a milestone in my life really next to going on tour with Tribe.

COGNITO

Word. So that particular album also brought y’all a lesson with sample clearance. I know you spoke on this on the documentary that I had the pleasure of working on called Copyright Criminals. If y’all haven’t seen it, y’all should check it out. Speak on what that did to the whole soundscape of music.

Maseo

It created a new business, definitely. Sampling became a significant business. When we first released our debut, we followed all the requirements to hand in sample clearances and make sure things were dealt with. Tommy Boy was in control of the administration. All we had to do is fill out the forms and hand them in, but they were in control of the administration, so they felt like certain things like “Transmitting Live From Mars” was insignificant to clear because it was just such a small skit. Who’s going to really pay attention to something so silly as that? Well, that was the very first thing that came to bite us. There was a public lawsuit out there from The Turtles for a million dollars. We settled out of court for $50,000. Due to our miscommunication, whatever the shuffle was, we end up going half with Tommy Boy on the bill, but when it comes to sample clearances, you’re always at the mercy of the negotiation, whoever owns the rights to it. There was a point in time where different people didn’t want you to sample. There was a time Anita Baker didn’t want anybody to touch her stuff. George Benson didn’t want anybody to touch their stuff. [Steely Dan didn’t want anybody to touch the stuff, but he didn’t realize we touched his stuff. That’s how obscure we were doing things as well. He didn’t realize that we used his record, but we made it clear because at the same time, we’re a fan of the people that we sampled from. A lot of that music, we truly are into. We grew up on that. To want to give the proper credit, that’s something we aspired to do. But by the label not doing their just, we get hit with the legalities. At the end of the day, everybody liked the fact that you’re a fan, but business is business.

COGNITO:

What was it like the day you met George Clinton?

Maseo

Oh, another milestone. One of my heroes in music. I’m a big Parliament Funkadelic fan. I went to the concert in 1976. My uncle and my mom took me and my brother to watch the mothership land at Madison Square Garden. Twenty years later, I’m in Central Park re-landing the mothership with George Clinton. It’s amazing, and I had broken my leg that year. It’s like, “I’m going to that show. I’m going to be on that stage, and I’m going to be part of landing that mothership,” because to be at that concert when I was six-years-old and then to turn around when I was 26, to be actually invited to be a part of that, it was great. George became a really good friend. That’s Uncle George, straight up. He and I, like, a lot of good times. I won’t smoke no weed with him though. [laughs] You don’t know what’s in the blunt.

[laughter]

COGNITO

Sho’nuff, sho’nuff.

Maseo

He had the nerve to look at me and say, “You young bloods need to stop smoking that chronic. That shit’s too strong.” I was like, “Are you serious?” [laughs] That’s a true story, I’m telling you. When we did the Frank151 thing, and I was talking to him, aw man, he said, “You and Snoop, you all need to stop this shit here. This shit is too strong.” I was like, “Are you serious? All the shit you do?” [laughs] “They didn’t had it like this back in our day.” I was like, “I get you, I feel you. I’m not messing with you in your day. You own that day, we own this day, and that’s our separation right there.” [laughs]

COGNITO

Ooh, man. On the production tip, man, once again you kind of have a similar story and situation like Ali. Back in them days, a lot with the group efforts, looking at production-wise, we wouldn’t have known who actually produced certain cuts because maybe how Ali was saying that you were trying to make the brand stand out in that sense.

Maseo

Yeah, I concur with Shah on that. The common goal was to be a group, and to do everything to kind of poke the group. I don’t know if it’s like that for Shah, but that was something I noticed Jay doing with Run DMC, although the group was Run DMC, and Jam Master Jay, but he represented Run DMC, and to even hear them even turn around and address Run DMC, the brand, the name, more as a group instead of just two rappers, Run and D. They addressed it more as a group. That still stands today, because here it is, Jay’s not here, and Run DMC is not here, and that was a conscious decision and effort on their end to dissolve the group, because their main man, who they felt held it together, is not here. The common goal was to be that. There was no hidden agenda. There was no, “I’m trying to do a solo thing. No disrespect, but it wasn’t a Brand Nubian situation. All of those guys initially looked to do solo efforts but then came together to do a group. We know [Grand] Puba come from other situations. He come from Masters of Ceremony, so different thing. The common goal was to be a group, always to be a group, and that still is the goal.

COGNITO

It’s an incredible testament with y’all, and in my opinion, I say this because you all are clearly out of all the groups in hip hop from that era, y’all are undefeated. Like, every album has been incredible. You all are what? Twenty-three years high and rising now? Never broke up.

Maseo

Something like that.

COGNITO

Never broke up, and no one’s ever pursued solo situations. You remained a group, and that’s something that needs to be…

Maseo

It’s not a fairy tale. It’s a gift and curse. I call it the gift and curse, because something that is you recognize to be so great, it’s really hard to pull together. Not everybody’s on the same page at the same time, especially when you know your role and people around you look at it to be powerful, but in some respects I’m powerless because I can’t rap for him. I can’t rap for him. I can’t make him like a certain beat. I don’t know when the stars are lining up for him today to want to make music, so I got to be patient. And then being patient, yeah, the clock of business is ticking, because now our childhood dream is a full-fledged career, and we can’t really operate like this anymore. That’s the curse. That’s the true curse, but when it finally connects, and if you notice, De La, come on, we don’t put out records as consistent. You’re dealing with true artists. You can’t rush art. If the painting ain’t right, you can’t put it out yet. There’s something missing. Don’t quite know what that is, but when it hits me, I’m going to put it up there, and then I’m going to put it out. Not quite comfortable with it, so I don’t care what deadline the corporation has. Trust me, I could sit here and be a hypocrite to what I’m saying, because I understand the duality of the relationship. There’s music business, and then there’s music art, and I’m playing both sides of the fence. As the one in the group who had way more responsibilities than everybody else, I’m like, “We got to get this paper, man!” [laughs] You just can’t rush the art, so when it comes down to it, the ultimate curse is that you’ve got to wait for the art to be solidified, and not everybody’s on the same page, so it’s that waiting process. You just continue to pursue the magic.

COGNITO

That’s a nice way to segue into this next cut that you happened to produce.

(music: De La Soul – “Ego Trippin’ (Part Two)” / applause)

Maseo

Salutations. Salutations. Salutations.

COGNITO

That was a sure-shot banger right there, and shameless plug, thank you all for reppin’ OG Fro t-shirt in that video. [shakes hands with Maseo]

Maseo

It was hot, man.

COGNITO

Got to set it off, you know what I’m saying? Respect, you know? You have such a character about you that we kind of got to live out through a lot of these albums, and then you had your time when you started to do your own thing. You started an independent record label, Bear Mountain, and what was it about that time in your life that made you realize that it was time to take another creative endeavor helping other artists, which y’all seemed to already do anyways because you all put us on to so many different artists, from the Mos Def’s to being on “Buddy” with Latifah and Monie Love?

Maseo

I’ll go fight for the part of A Tribe Called Quest. First record he rapped on was “Buddy Remix” so those are just other blessings again. These people coming into your life, God presenting these people in your life, and you develop something with them. For me, definitely getting past the third album, definitely tainted with the business. My innocence is gone. Not really all that inspired. The true inspiration always came out of who was fresh and new and never embarked upon the business, that one cat, two cats who just real hot and got a dream. The one thing Paul said to me a long time ago, especially for where I come from, I love what I do because I could’ve literally been a stickup kid. I was pretty good at the streets. I was pretty good. I think I knew whatever I put my mind to, I would be good at. That’s just truly it. New York life presents such a hustle, especially when you come from a single- parent home and your moms is on and off welfare, we dealing with the warranted struggles. I’m the oldest child, and I’m trying to figure out how to help my moms out. I could’ve been that cat. I could’ve been that cat on America’s Most Gangsta, Best Gangsters. I could’ve been that for real deal. But God pushed me a different place. First of all, I love my mother to death. I never wanted to disappoint her. Although what I did in the streets, I tried to make sure she never found out. When I was getting too heavy with it, I would tell her. That would be my moment of repent. Really, to answer your question, Paul put me on, man. Big up to Prince Paul all day.

[applause]

If it hadn’t been for my relationship with Paul, I could’ve been somewhere else. I asked Paul, “What could I ever really do to repay you?” He said, “Two things.” He said, “Yo, have some experiences that I never had with this hip hop thing. And then two, turn around and do the same thing for somebody else that I’m doing for you.”

[applause]

COGNITO

Word up. Word up. Like Ali and Tribe, y’all also had experience with J Dilla.

Maseo

He’s a true king, for real.

COGNITO

Since this is Dilla month, and y’all are going to rock in his honor tonight at Boombox, why don’t you speak on Dilla? What was that meeting like? How did that come about?

Maseo

J Dilla, I think we all met him around the same time. If I can really recall, I think Dave was the first to meet him but introduced him to Q-Tip. They met in the malls in Detroit somewhere. I think Dilla had already been working with Pharcyde at this point, though, and he was still an unknown, but he was working with Pharcyde because he was putting his name down as Jay Dee, not Dilla, so you could get it confused with Jermaine Dupree.

COGNITO

Not really, but yeah.

[laughter]

Maseo

At that point in time, if you really didn’t know, because you would be like, “Yo, same dude that produced Kriss Kross?”

[laughter]

COGNITO

Pre-Wikipedia.

Maseo

[laughs]Yeah. Pre-Wikipedia, like Cliff Notes. [laughs] Really, meeting him and connecting, my first time really chilling with Dilla, like having my real moment when we smoked out and we kicked it, because when we’re around my crew and we’re around Tribe, it’s like with the pastors of church sometimes. [laughs] Sometimes. You know, we never really got loose. The studio atmosphere has always been a real… That’s our playground. That’s where we really take the work serious. Everybody’s truly into the art, but I got to go to the crib a few times and hang out with him in his own world. After an okayplayer show or any time I came to the D[etroit], hung out with Fran-N-Dank, and we really kicked it, man. A lot of times, man, when you get with people you really love and you care for, everything ain’t always good, so you want to… There’s times you want to let it out, man. He wanted to tell his Q-Tip story. I wanted to tell my De La story. There’s times when we got with Ali, we done sat in the car many days and many nights and shared our bad stories of our camps. That’s just your moment to vent, and you know when you built family with somebody, you can share this moment, and they know what you’re saying. You don’t mean no malice who you’re talking about. You’re just venting, and you’re venting out of love because you want to continue what you’re doing and who you’re doing it with, but there’s that moment… Every family fights, man. It’s truly what it is. This is not no fairy tale. We truly are family. You can see in the Tribe movie. You can honestly see that. For some reason with the Tribe, I’ve been in the middle of every fight. I don’t know why me. [laughs]

Ali Shaheed

[inauadible]

Maseo

Peace. Peace. [laughs] Want love. Peace, appreciate it. That’s family for you, and my moment with Jay Dee, it was with Jay Dee and Frank-N-Dank, and here it is Jay Dee, this was the one moment he really wanted to vent, like bark a little bit. I’m like, “Yo, B, I’m going to help you find your tongue because you think I ain’t going to really feel you on this.” I dropped everything he was feeling, what was going on in the Tribe situation with Q-Tip, and he kept looking back to Frank-N-Dank going, “Do you hear this n---er? Do you hear him! Preach! Preach, Mase, please preach! You telling my soul right now.” I was like, “Let’s smoke out, and let’s just let it out, B, you know what I’m saying? Only way you going to be able to continue to be inspired and do what you do and do it with who you love doing it, you got to get that off your chest.” It’s a cliché, but you got to keep it real. It’s a true cliché, but you got to keep it real, not only with your folks but with yourself, because you not going to move forward. He still is great because he’s been able to be real with himself and real with the situations around him. I think in our final days of Dilla and hearing him talk, we all felt that. We all felt that interview on that tape. We felt that, and it was true. It was honest, man, and he’s the greatest, man. He brought something to hip hop, and that’s the thing about this. I get upset when I see cats constantly just taking from it. Taking, taking, taking, taking and give nothing back. Yo, he gave something to hip hop in a major way, and he definitely helped carry De La Soul past the tradition of “By the time you make your third album, your career’s going to be over.” Well, he helped us beat the odds.

[applause]

COGNITO

Word up. You’re good at this, man. It’s a good segue.

(music: De La Soul – “Stakes Is High” / applause)

COGNITO

Y’all will get enough of that tonight at Boombox, you know what I’m saying? You’ll get enough of that tonight at Boombox.

Maseo

I don’t know if Ali got that in his set, but it’s in mine. [laughs]

COGNITO

Word, word. Yeah, man, what’s driving you now creatively?

Maseo

Always the new talent. The new talent always drives me. I like the innocence. This is something that just happened just yesterday. I met Mac Miller yesterday for the first time, and I’ve been watching this kid. Actually, my sons put me onto Mac Miller. My 19-year-old and my 14-year-old put me on to Mac Miller. They was like, “Daddy, you going to like him.” They’re into the Lil Wayne’s and all of that, and they definitely into modern-day hip hop, but by being around me, their understanding is getting a lot more broader. My 19 -year-old has truly matured. He went from Lil Wayne being his favorite rapper to now Lil Wayne and Big Daddy Kane is his favorite rapper. Busta [Rhymes] got a spot with him too, like something about Busta, my 19-year-old really loves him. He’s been loving Busta since he was like eight. Yeah, these new talent, man. New talent has always been the drive for me from the days of Mos [Def], from the days of Black Sheep, from everybody that was fresh that came through. We always challenged the creative envelope. Check your ego at the door, and let’s really do what we do. If I want to continue to be Maseo out here, how everybody perceives me, well, Vincent Mason got to come up in here and really do his job along with Kelvin Mercer and David Jolicoeur and Kamaal Fareed and everybody else. We check our egos at the door, and we really get down to challenging each other creatively and not canceling out no idea. Every idea is a great idea. You have to try it. You don’t know until you’ve really tried it, and do not cancel it out until you actually put it up there to go, “Okay, it looks good or it sounds good, or it sounds bad.” You’ve got to put it up. You’ve got to put it out there. It’s more than just verbally conveying, because not everybody can see what you saying, so you have to show it, and we all gave ourselves that respect. That’s what I always liked about our creative space, but like I say again, the new talent. The new talent drives the hell out of me. That innocence, man.

COGNITO

I also wanted to touch that the collaboration that you all did with the Gorillaz. You didn’t really say much, but it carries that song.

Maseo

That’s God. Again.

COGNITO

We’ve heard that laugh.

Maseo

This laugh is my laugh, and I used to get teased for it. I got a lot fights behind this laugh, seriously. It’s me, so I learned to embrace it. I can’t change who I am, and I’m not trying to, but I think in them teenage years, you’re self-conscious about a lot, so I pound a lot of people upside their head for this laugh. I love the impression it has on people. I like making people happy, man, so if my silliness brings joy, cool, because I like being silly. I like being fun. I like telling jokes. Honestly, I really am a jokester. My comedy comes free, because if you got to pay for it, it ain’t funny. [laughs] That’s just my natural, just me being me, the class clown, but I got my grades. That was my way of playing possum to everybody because I believe we all can have a good time with what we love to do. 90% of the world is doing something they hate doing for a living. They never even went to school for what they’re doing for a living, and I’m part of the 10%. I’m going to do my best to bring joy to the 90% that hate what they’re doing.

[applause]

COGNITO

We come to that point where we’re going to open up the floor for questions. Let’s see.

Audience member

Hey, Mase.

Maseo

Hey, Asia.

Audience member

How you doing?

Maseo

How you doing?

Audience member

I have a question I’ve always wanted to ask you. You mention that Dilla’s music was stolen, and we all know that a lot of people will take and not really give, and he only really became a legend after he passed. What can we do to commemorate artists so that we don’t have to wait until they pass in order to make them of legendary status?

Maseo

We have to support them while they’re here. We have to. There’s no other way to put it. We have to give them the glory while they’re on this earth. Why do we acknowledge them when they’re dead and gone? I can never understand that myself. We definitely need to give them the glory when they’re here on this earth, when they’re doing tremendous work. But for some reason, we take that for granted. For some reason jealousy and envy prevails when a person is alive, but when they finally die, then we have this sentiment, and then we want to merit them. We live in a world that’s controlled by the devil. The earth is controlled by the devil. He’s just as strong as the Creator. They’re brothers, man. He’ll put these weary moments around you every now and again. When Dilla was alive, I witnessed a lot of envious people, and I feel like envy is worse than jealousy because you can never really detect it until the very last moment, and it’s too late. There was a lot of people really envious of him because he’s just that good and that great. If you know your Bible, Jesus was great, but he had to go somewhere else to receive his greatness and then come back for his people to acknowledge his greatness. Dilla had to go to the spiritual realm for us to acknowledge his greatness. I’m glad I was able to be a part of the disciples to acknowledge it while he was here on earth. I’m down by law. [laughs]

[applause]

Audience member

Salute.

Maseo

Salute. Saluterie. Salutations.

Audience member

So Maseo, I grew up listening to De La Soul, KDAY. I remember listening to you guys on KDAY when I was in high school. Yeah, 1580 KDAY AM, so Craig Mack, the Mixmasters, and all that stuff. Do you remember when you first heard that you guys were playing over here in LA on the West Coast, and what is your first show that you performed here in LA?

Maseo

My first show in LA was some skating rink. I can’t remember the name of it.

Audience Member

World on Wheels!

Maseo

World on Wheels! Word up. Word up. All I got to say is I was scared like a mother because it was gangbanger city, B. Crips and Bloods all day. Yo, for real. I mean, gang culture then really grew mainstream. It’s crazy. Gang culture grew really mainstream. Here it is in New York, we didn’t have that at the time. We have that now. It wasn’t called gangs. It was called your crew. That word extended pretty dynamic. You could’ve been thugged out. You could’ve been a rap group. You could’ve been a crew of dancers. But out here, it was really gangs, for real. One thing I noticed with “gangs” on the East Coast, especially New York primarily, crews would thug out for money, right? They would rob you. It was about economics. If I’m going to hurt somebody, I got to get something out of it. I’m really going to go in to cash this check on this person. Out here? “No, I’m going to kill for my set. I’m going to blow your head off because you don’t speak like me. What set you claim? Huh?” What? I didn’t understand any of that really, and having on the wrong color. That threw me off. I believe my ignorance is what saved me at the time, truly, because it was hardcore gangbanging back then. Seriously, I was scared coming out to LA. I’m glad I made friends with the Boo-Yaa T.R.I.B.E. early. Word up.

[laughter]

Yo, for real, when I come out, they think I’m Samoan or something like that anyway, so I made friends with the Boo-Yaa T.R.I.B.E early in the game.

COGNITO

Y’all used to wear a lot of crazy colors.

Maseo

Yeah, we wore the colors and the medallion, so I was right in. Boo-Yaa used to hold me down every time, seriously. “Mase in town! Word!” [laughs]

COGNITO

Who’s got the mic?

Audience member

Yeah. Yeah, first I want to say, thanks for De La for being themselves, creating their own language in the hip hop game, but I’ve got a question about Long Island as far as groups, MCs that came out. Who originated the first, I guess you could say “Long Island flow?” To my knowledge, it’s like JVC Force, EPMD, so…

Maseo

There’s no real Long Island flow. There’s no real Long Island flow because, come on, Chuck D from Long Island. None of us sound like him? So I don’t know what that is. One thing I can credit Long Island for is rappers using their real names. Erick Sermon, Parrish Smith, Keith Murray, Craig Mack. You know what I’m saying? Seriously, unless you was a 5%er like Rakim, you know what I mean? Everybody did use their real names for the most part. Curt Cazal, Curtis, you know what I mean, from JVC Force. I don’t know what the Long Island flow is, though, you got me on that one.

Audience member

[inaudible]

Maseo

Okay. You from Long Island?

Audience member

[inaudible]

Maseo

Okay, I’m sorry. I don’t know what the Long Island Flow is.

COGNITO

Oh, there we go.

Audience member

Yo, I wanted to talk about the song “Buddy.” I know Puffy came along later talking about how they invented the remix, but if I’m correct, I think “Buddy” was one of the first remixes that was ever done.

Maseo

Actually, the first real remix in hip hop was “Me, Myself and I.” It was completely different music all together from the original, not like a dub of “The Bridge.” Marley did “The Bridge Is Over.” It wasn’t like a dub mix. It was an actual remix where the music was completely different. I know Puffy likes to take credit for that. That’s all for the cameras and for the press, but people in hip hop know what it really is, and he’s in hip hop, and he knows what it really is.

Audience member

Can you explain “Buddy,” because I know Prince Paul said something else in that video, but it didn’t correlate to what “Buddy” sounded like in the song?

Maseo

It’s another way of saying “My friend, my dear friend, my close friend, my friend to the end.” My loved one. Someone you spending special time with.

COGNITO

My boo.

Maseo

Yeah, my boo-boo. [laughs] Peace, thank you, man. Thanks. You know what? Method Man likes the original. That really touched me, man, where he was like, “I like the original ‘Buddy.’“ I was like, “I did that.” [laughs] Peace, thank you, man.

Audience member

Speaking of Method Man, I just wanted to know how the Redman track “Ooh” came along. How did that come about actually?

Maseo

Everybody that we worked with, especially after, I got to say, I give it to my guys on a lyrical tip, and us collectively, when we think about people want to work with, when the lyrics start to come together and add that extra added instrument. The vocal has always been another instrument to us. The cadence, the melody of the vocal, and then also who else you hear on the track, that’s how we always built our collaborations. We didn’t say we going to really consciously work with this person. Of course, you want to work with everybody, but sometimes it just don’t come together like that. [points in the audience] I’ve been wanting to work with Raphael [Saadiq] for years, but it’s about the right song, right track, especially when you truly care about your art. I want to make a record that’s going to compliment us both and create something completely new for us and Redman or whoever that person may be. Our styles coming together to create a whole new style. It’s not just about a feature. It’s truly about doing a collaboration and bringing everybody in the creative fold. When you call somebody like Redman, he’s thrown off because he’s like, “De La, thinking of me?” Everybody looked to meet the challenge, especially if you really… it’s an unspoken. If you’re into hip hop like you say you’re into hip hop, you’re going to meet certain challenges. Redman met the challenge. Busta met the challenge. It was definitely a natural think. Slick Rick, that was the most incredible, I felt, record we made. I didn’t know how we were going to do that. I always felt like Ricky was going to outshine us out the door, but it came together. Even the turnaround to make a record with B-Real. How we going to do that? It’s just going to be Mase and B-Real, because they the only ones that smoke weed, but the concept came together. The concept was so ill. Us - myself and B-Real - trying to get Pos to smoke weed who never smoked weed, and calling the song “Peer Pressure.” We’re as comedic at one point; the dual message. The dual message, “You don’t have to smoke weed to be cool,” and then, “Everybody who smoke weed ain’t bad people or stupid.” By having Maseo and B-Real and Posdnuos brings a certain message to weed smoking and the person who chooses not to smoke weed. It was very comedic and hip hop at the same time, and a true, true, true collaboration, not a feature. “De La featuring B-Real” and it’s just some bullshit he kicks a 16 and it’s over.

Audience member

Hi Maseo. I’m hoping this is a yes, because I saw that you guys did a Nike couple of tracks a couple of years ago, and it really got me pumped up for another De La Soul album. I’m hoping that you say yes. Is there another De La Soul album in the making?

Maseo

Absolutely, man. Absolutely.

[applause]

You going to see a lot of cool stuff going down. A lot of cool stuff going on. Right now, the fellows is moving along with this project presented by these French cats as a concept album called First Serve. They play these two weird characters. I forgot the name of Dave’s character, but Pos’s character is called Deen Witter, and I like his character because he’s totally out of character being this character. He’s playing somebody who’s supposed to be a degenerate, pretty much a fuck-up, smoking weed, wearing a smoking jacket and the do-rag. It looks bugged out. Dave look like a broke-ass Rick Ross. It’s funny as hell. It’s funny. It’s funny. The project is called First Serve. It’s funny, man. I don’t want anybody to assume that it’s a De La Soul record and be disappointed. You really got to check out the concept of the whole project, check out the visuals, the credits. It’s funny as hell, man. I’m working on a project called DJ Conductor, where I’m producing new artists and my friends that I’ve been wanting to work with for the longest. I got a song with KRS-1. I’ve got to song with Freddie Foxxx. I’ve got a song with Mac Miller, a song with Fashawn, a couple of cats that I’m inspired by, and finally doing something that I’ve been needing to do for a long time. Then, you’re going to see us, of course, make a De La album. We’re going to also make a De La album with Prince Paul.

[applause]

A lot is going down. A lot of good stuff is brewing. I’m in a good place where things are. I’m glad the Internet did what it did to the record business, so the strong will survive. It’s going to show the true testament who’s down for this music and who’s not down for it, because the checks aren’t there like they used to be. We’ve got to work that much harder for the check. I love what I do, so I’ve always worked hard. The error of the big checks, I wasn’t really catching them anyway. [laughs] I didn’t miss anything. I’m still able to do what I love to do and catch what I’m catching. I like my place in it. I love where things are at with the Internet and things being independent again. It’s going full circle. I was with Tommy Boy when they were independent, and then they went major. Now they’re back to being independent again, and everybody’s independent.