Session Transcript:
I-f
Red Bull Music Academy, Barcelona 2008

The video stream for this lecture can be watched here.

It’s been a strange journey for I-f, from cheesy Italo disco to the hardcore acid squat scene and back again. But the man whose biggest hit came via the simple connection of a vocoder and an old school arcade game details the transitions as the natural progression of an electronic fiend. More at home in bunkers and underground studios than sitting on the Red Bull couch, where he hides beneath his cap, I-f is nevertheless an amazing interviewee, explaining why it’s all about DIY and how he’s giving up the record business for internet radio.

RBMA: »Our guest this afternoon is someone who, willingly or unwillingly, has been a constant source of inspiration for DJs, music fans and record collectors around the world. He’s living in The Hague in the Netherlands and over the years he’s started record labels, internet radio stations, infamous mixtapes and even the odd minor hit. The man by the name of I-f, please give him a warm welcome.«

(applause)

»We’ve heard a lot about techno today and its aesthetic and independent approach and the way to put out records. So maybe you can talk a bit about your feelings for it.«

I-f: »Techno died for me in the late ‘90s, like ‘96/’97. We were heavily involved in it from about ’91 with Unit Moebius. This was our local in The Hague, in squats, and it was the beginning of our do-it-yourself thing, inspired by Underground Resistance, who we were huge fans of. They put out lots of records and we thought we could do that too.«

RBMA: »Maybe you could just explain who Underground Resistance are for people who’ve never heard of them.«

I-f: »That’s silly if you’ve never heard of them, but they are an organisation in Detroit, led by Mad Mike and for me they more or less invented the techno thing because techno also means the do-it-yourself attitude: make your own records, release your own records, throw your own parties – that’s techno for me.«

RBMA: »Unit Moebius, The Hague, you mentioned the squats – can you elaborate on what the scene was like?«

I-f: »I did a record shop in the Hague in late ’92. I met Guy from Bunker, and Jan from Unit Moebius and they were looking for a distributor for Bunker Records. I’d never heard of the guys, but I listened to the stuff and I was immediately impressed by the minimal sounds. This was already a minimal thing, with no effort made to put a lot of instruments in because they didn’t have a lot of instruments. Where should I start? I was a DJ, I had a record shop, I imported and exported records. Then Guy came in with the Bunker stuff and opened a new world for me with the underground parties and the squats and things. I came from a different direction, being totally into Chicago house, and I had no idea there was a scene in the Netherlands for electronic music. I’d heard of Speedy J who was doing things for Plus 8. But that was far away and this was within reach. I was invited to do mixes in the squats and that is how it started; I made my own music in ’93. I’m dead nervous by the way – I never do lectures, I just do records in underground bunkers and stuff.«

RBMA: »No need to be.«

I-f: »Nevertheless, this is how it started. The underground scene started in 1991/’92 when me and Bunker met.«

RBMA: »Maybe we can hear something from then. And they’re all kind people here, no need to be nervous.«

I-f: »No, I know, no need to be eaten today. I don’t have any Bunker records with me but I can play you one of my first records. No, I don’t have acid with me because these days are long gone, but I can play you one of my very first records. Hold on a second, I don’t want to play Abba for you. Yes, here we go, here it comes.«

(music: I-f – Portrait Of A Dead Girl)

»This is Portrait Of A Dead Girl, one of the non-acid projects I did in late ’94. My entire drive to make music came from the parties we did, those squat parties, because the music we wanted to play wasn’t really available. We played the Detroit sound, and the old school electro sound, the Bambaataa, Kraftwerk thing, but not this sort of punching electro thing and this is what happened around that time. It was purely made for the parties. If you have heard the beginning you have heard the end.«

(music: I-f – Portrait Of A Dead Girl continues)

»Around the same time Electronome came out with No Landscape, which had a similar drive; also a similar beat and synth line. We felt it was like a second coming of electro, things were happening from all over the world. I don’t know how it all happened at the same time, but it did. This was in the heyday of the Acid Planet parties.«

(music: I-f – Portrait Of A Dead Girl continues)

»Well, I’m sure you get the idea (applause). Thank you, I feel much better now.«

RBMA: »Why do you think this sound appealed to the squat scene? You’d think they’d only listen to punk.«

I-f: »No, no, no, I even managed to introduce Italo disco to the squat scene. It was a matter of knowing things and not knowing. There was a lot of music I didn’t know they introduced me to, like minimal wave, for instance. I wasn’t totally into that but it got big for me personally; it had the same attitude, punky and obscure, and the best songs only came out on tapes or 7”s, never with large record deals or distribution, just small record labels where people make records and distribute themselves. We did the exact same thing with electronic music.«

RBMA: »So here we are again with the do-it-yourself thing.«

I-f: »There was no other way, because nobody else liked our music so we were forced to do this. We were lucky; I’d just started up in distribution and had some contacts for selling records. This is how it started: if one label goes another one comes, and soon we had our own little emporium.«

RBMA: »So how did you do it in the golden days before sending links for downloads?«

I-f: »Telephones. Huge bills from playing records on the telephone. “How many, how many?” That was the only way to do it or send promos.«

RBMA: »And you also got in touch with the person on the other end of the phone, right?«

I-f: »(sarcastically) I think it was a person I spoke to.«

RBMA: »No, I meant because you said there was this wave from all corners.«

I-f: »Yeah, it happened fast at that moment. This was the way the music turned around the major industry, because they were never interested in something they thought they couldn’t sell. But later on came the big record deals, which meant the end of techno.«

RBMA: »That’s why you said in ’95/’96 it kind of died for you.«

I-f: »Yes, but also the parties. We noticed half the people came for the music we played and the other half came for the drugs. One half is still around, the other is dead or in rehab.«

RBMA: »There’s another record you wanted to play, right?«

I-f: »Yes, along with Portrait Of A Dead Girl, this was a very important track for me; lots of anger and frustration. It’s called Superman, and it’s from the Portrait Of A Dead Girl series. I was lucky Disko B liked the songs we played in Munich, otherwise it never would’ve left the Hague.«

(music: I-f – Superman / applause)

»I actually can’t remember why I was so pissed off and frustrated, must have been something.«

RBMA: »Whose voice is that on there?«

I-f: »It’s mine, talking through a headphone through a Boss effect, the synthesizer’s a Pro-1 and the drummachine is an 808.«

RBMA: »You said major labels weren’t interested in that kind of stuff, but shortly after this you did a track we should listen to.«

I-f: »I did a few more tracks in between under a different alias, working with some other people. We did The Brothers Fuck, Lonny & Melvin; I think that was it. But we did the Murder Capital series, then this super hit. Stand by.«

(music: I-f – Space Invaders Are Smoking Grass)

»I always wondered if anybody understands the lyrics. No? That’s what I figured.«

(fades music out)

»I’m sure you can all download it somewhere.«

(applause)

»But this song had everything going against it, especially the way it was recorded. It was out of phase, the .space echo turned out to be defective, the tape was rotten, but some mastering people managed to make something decent out of it. The equipment I had was almost totally dead. The only modern synthesizer in this is the bassline, the ‘beep beep beep’, that’s a .Nord Lead, the rest is oldcore, and the vocoder is a VC-10 a friend of mine found in Surinam of all places.«

RBMA: »And what is the name of this pop hit made by aliens?«

I-f: »Space Invaders Are Smoking Grass (laughs).«

RBMA: »It gained you quite some recognition with major labels, MTV even played a video of it.«

I-f: »A friend of mine made an invaders clip, not for the song, but when I saw it I was very enthusiastic and I told him I had a song to go with it. When he heard it he liked it so we edited it to go with the song. But later on, with the deal for the 12”, Warners made a silly clip with a rubber frog. I never understood the point of that.«

RBMA: »On which label did it first come out?«

I-f: »First on Interdimensional Transmissions, on a compilation out of Detroit.«

RBMA: »And from then on?«

I-f: »The Disko B label, on the album Fucking Consumers, that was my first album ever released on a label other than my own, Viewlexx. And then later on it appeared on my own label.«

RBMA: »And how did you deal with all the sudden recognition?«

I-f: »I actually didn’t deal with it, I ignored most of it. But it saved my ass because we were going bankrupt due to problems and shit. It was a good deal.«

RBMA: »But other people would try to take advantage of that, and try to make another Space Invaders, and another, and another.«

I-f: »I got offered album deals like that, but I’m allergic to working to deadlines, I can’t function well like that. I need this freedom to either make an album or not make an album. I get fed up with something, or want to make another sound or another project. It’s not good for my rest.«

RBMA: »And when was the last time you made music?«

I-f: »2003.«

RBMA: »Because you’ve been occupied with another project?«

I-f: »In December 2002 I started the Cybernetic Broadcast System, the C-B-S internet radio station. I was always doing radio, even before I had a music career, pirate stations in the Hague and Rotterdam. I was always DJing for those and was sometimes involved in putting transmitters in elevator shafts and a tiny one in someone’s house, so if the police came, they’d get the wrong one and not the people behind it. We were fanatical about making mixes and doing radio shows locally. We played everything from disco, Italo, electro, acid, Chicago; we’ve always been playing this kind of stuff. Thanks to the internet it was possible to do a really cheap radio station and people could listen worldwide. That’s the amazing thing, you’re suddenly not just doing it for your neighbours and your street; anyone can tune in.«

RBMA: »And there was quite a community around it.«

I-f: »I never expected it to happen because my thing was just getting the music out. One minute without the music being streamed I consider a loss. It’s vital that this music is always available in the form of radio if you want it. There came a forum, almost a code around it; we did parties in Rotterdam, because this is the best place to do parties, very central, very cultural. It got out of hand, but this year I stopped the station because it was at its max. It was doing well, but the future wasn’t so bright and the concept was also its limitation. Sometimes you have to be able to destroy something in order to continue. And there’s a new station coming.«

RBMA: »And the name of the new one?«

I-f: »Intergalactic FM.«

RBMA: »Why were you dissatisfied with it? Was that the concept from the start, to do a radio station for a short period?«

I-f: »It started more or less as a joke, and the name C-B-S was a parody on the major, the all-seeing eye, and we had the all-seeing UFO. We put all this music in one stream, from minimal wave, Italo, disco, but that was also its limitation. Most of our listeners are listening at work. Sometimes it’s a problem to switch styles – for me it’s no problem, I can listen to anything at any time – but the switch from obscure soundtracks to Italo disco and then to minimal wave was too extreme. With this new one there are three streams with plenty of variation per stream, but you can choose according to your taste.«

RBMA: »And how are these three streams separated?«

I-f: »Channel 1 is the west coast sound of Holland, which is anyone involved in and around the Hague electronic music scene, but also across the border. Clone Records is involved, Rush Hour Records, the Hot Mix Bunker Crew are involved. Boomkat from England are involved, Stefan Robbers from Eevo Lute will do a show. We have plenty of people from labels with a solid musical background who we want to give airtime to. IFM2 is the Dream Machine: soundtracks, space, obscure, waves, acid, at designated times, dreams and nightmares. And IFM3 is classics, disco and Italo.«

RBMA: »And this gives you more satisfaction than sitting in the studio and making music? Because I imagine it’s time consuming.«

I-f: »Yes, it is, but I have plenty of time. I lost interest in producing music, but also due to practical problems – after I moved, I couldn’t make noise in the place where I lived, I couldn’t produce. If I even looked at an 808 the neighbours complained. But radio is pretty anonymous, unless I start screaming into a mic.«

RBMA: »But you couldn’t rent a studio?«

I-f: »There were no funds for that. The good news is we found a place deep down underground where we can make some music 24/7 so the production studio will be built up again. And the radio station will go there, too; lots of live action, phone-ins, contests; it’s gonna be good.«

RBMA: »You’ve mentioned Italo a few times. You did a famous and infamous mix CD called Mixed Up In The Hague Vol 1. Maybe you can talk about that, because there aren’t too many Italo tracks on there, but it’s often cited as being responsible for the revival of that sound.«

I-f: »That triggered the C-B-S radio station. This CD had a massive impact, although it was just a demo CD for my DJ set. I thought it was a good idea to do a demo, because there was a lot of confusion about what I played. Lots of people still thought I was on my acid trip, doing loud, nasty Beverley Hills 808303 acid, but I hadn’t done that for years. I played lots of old Chicago house, not so hard anymore. That’s why I made a demo, but it got out of hand.«

RBMA: »Do you have something with you from that CD?«

I-f: »I’ve got plenty of classics with me. This isn’t on Mixed Up In The Hague, but it’s one of my later favourites. I didn’t know the track at the time. I think I destroyed the CD player. No, I didn’t (laughs). This is from Italy, genuine Italo, it’s Alex Valentini.«

(music: Alex Valentini – Beautiful Life)

»One of the things I love about Italo disco is the failing attempt to sing English. It’s great.«

(applause)

»That’s the sweet part, the vocals that are hard to understand, almost like grammatical remixes. So sweet. Italy was very important for dance music, not just in the ‘80s: in the ‘70s there was Claudio Simonetti who did a lot of soundtracks. Easy Going was huge in the early ‘80s disco scene.«

RBMA: »Maybe you can elaborate more about your fascination with Italo disco. You talked about the lyrics.«

I-f: »I love melody, bassline and sexiness in tracks, things I miss in modern music. Sometimes you can hear it in stuff from Omar S and Theo Parrish, I’m a big fan of both of them. There’s something really warm and straightforward and honest, something you remember next time you hear it. It has character and lots of modern music doesn’t – no personality. I miss that, it doesn’t all have to be cold and stripped and druggy.«

RBMA: »Why do you think it is like that?«

I-f: »Lack of talent? It’s so easy to make a record these days, and that’s a good thing; but the bad thing is music has been devalued. Many things you hear now sound like someone’s first record and will always stay that way. I wouldn’t even play you my first record because it’s so awful, there’s nothing in it. You’re just so enthusiastic. I understand the feeling, ‘Wow, I did this, I pushed the buttons and this is coming out of it’. It takes a while to understand in-depth how synthesizers work, how you record a track and the problems you encounter if you want to lay down a good mix. You can’t do that like in the old days with the acid tracks where, if the VU meters didn’t move anymore, we started recording.«

RBMA: »So it was a completely live take?«

I-f: »More or less, yes.«

RBMA: »Do you think we need more filters, not like in filter house, but…?«

I-f: »We need more basslines, more sexy basslines and good strings. You don’t need an orchestra, you can do it yourself in your studio. What’s wrong with a good bass, a deep funky bass? I’m a sucker for them.«

RBMA: »I didn’t mean filters as a technical thing, but musical filters, because you say too much is coming out.«

I-f: »A music dictator you mean (laughs)? No, I don’t think that’s a good idea, but you can be a bit more self-critical. Initiatives like the Academy are very good, because you never stop learning in music. I’ve been here a day and seen so many things I didn’t know existed. You’re never ready as a producer, it’s good to hear other peoples’ experiences and put in as much of yourself as you can. I did that when I worked with Intergalactic Gary on the Parallax Corporation. He’s a very patient man, especially for string sounds, and we can work together very well. We spent a year recording that Parallax album and in the old days it took like two days. But there’s much more in it – anger, sex, happiness, frustration, whatever – it’s less sterile.«

RBMA: »So patience is a good thing while making music?«

I-f: »Yeah, sure.«

RBMA: »And who is Intergalactic Gary?«

I-f: »He’s an amazing DJ, he’s been around even longer than me. He’s always been a club DJ, and now he’s travelling abroad to work. He’s one of my favourite DJs and makes super tight mixes, has an amazing knowledge of music and has very good sounds; extremely patient.«

RBMA: »Mixed Up In The Hague made you a favourite DJ for a lot of people. How do you feel about being put on a pedestal, a cult leader? You don’t seem too comfortable.«

I-f: »No, you get pushed into a political corner and I’m very uncomfortable with politics, it can destroy entire music scenes. People think too politically and that makes me scared. Also, like I said in the acid days, at Acid Planet in The Hague we did these non-stop sick acid mixes, like one big nightmare, for two or three years. But then suddenly it was enough. As a radio DJ I’d always had more variation in my music. The problem is with a big record deal, you make a Space Invaders and the label expects three more albums of Space Invaders. If I want to mix it up with disco or Italo, I should be able to do that.«

RBMA: »So maybe we can listen to something else. Is there something you’d like to play?«

I-f: »I’ve got some really juicy disco, one of the best disco tracks ever made.«

(music: unknown)

»This is also from Italy, in 1980, for me the number one ensemble, an instant push-button happiness record.«

(applause)

»Without getting too nostalgic, I miss this sound, the fat bass, the nice girls singing.«

RBMA: »But you had to put a helmet on when you played it for the first time at those acid parities?«

I-f: »A leather helmet, yes. No (laughs), we didn’t play disco at the Acid Planet parties, just acid, Chicago acid, Hague acid, maybe another style, but disco was a no-go then.«

RBMA: »And you are also running a record label?«

I-f: »Not really, but Viewlexx Records and Murder Capital Records still exist. The last thing that came out was Novamen with Lies and there’s a plan to release another record, but I’m not too bothered about records, I think I can do way better with radio. You can make a lot more music available for a lot more people at the same time.«

RBMA: »So that’s your thing, to make music available to people?«

I-f: »Yes, I have an incredible drive to push music that I think has something in it.«

RBMA: »You’re more interested in the radio side than the record business?«

I-f: »I’m more or less out of the record business and I couldn’t care less about it.«

RBMA: »Is that because of the economics?«

I-f: »Partly, but also I’ve been there, done that. I’ve had all the joys and troubles with everything: publishing, releasing, distributing, making the records, pressing the records. I don’t feel it anymore, so I shouldn’t do it.«

RBMA: »But you still buy records?«

I-f: »No.«

RBMA: »So how do you get music?«

I-f: »I get an amazing supply every day from labels everywhere. I find my music in the strangest places, I also pick up my old records and re-edit them to make them more suitable for the dancefloor. I sometimes buy digital and download stuff, but I don’t buy vinyl anymore.«

RBMA: »You don’t like vinyl?«

I-f: »I love vinyl, but I’m annoyed that if you want to buy an old record you have to spend at least €50 on it. That’s bullshit. Music is made to be heard, that’s why people make it, not to see it end up in some obscure collection with someone who will not play it for you.«

RBMA: »Raoul is right there.«

I-f: »But Raoul always plays his records for me.«

RBMA: »You shouldn’t have put out Mixed Up In The Hague, then all these people wouldn’t have wanted to buy them.«

I-f: »I never saw that coming.«

RBMA: »And another thing that’s controversial is the re-edit culture that came along with it.«

I-f: »I play a lot with CDs lately and I can be way more creative with CDs because I can make my own edits or breaks and play what I want within minutes on the dancefloor, I don’t see anything wrong with it.«

RBMA: »I meant making an edit and pressing it up.«

I-f: »That’s bootlegging and I’m not in favour of that, you’ve got to take care of the artist.«

RBMA: »There were also a lot of bootlegs of the tracks from Mixed Up In The Hague.«

I-f: »I didn’t do it.«

RBMA: »And you can’t control it.«

I-f: »No, it’s out of my league.«

RBMA: »How do you feel about it?«

I-f: »I don’t feel anything about it, I just think you should pay the artist if you release his record. I re-released Robot Is Systematic by the Lectric Workers and I just asked: “Guys, can I do this and you get the mechanical royalties?” And they were so happy, not with the money, because it was only about €300, but just the recognition for the artist, that someone shows interest in what they did. They’re already past music – I don’t now what they do, but not music – and it’s such an acknowledgement that 20 years later someone wants to remix their record.«

RBMA: »So you think it’s a matter of respect to ask?«

I-f: »Yes.«

RBMA: »And what are mechanical royalties?«

I-f: »That’s the amount you pay to Gema, Stemra. When you press a record at a legal pressing plant you pay 90c per record that goes directly to the artist. I think that’s a good thing.«

RBMA: »Do you have something current? You mentioned Omar S and Theo Parrish.«

I-f: »I think I forgot all my new stuff, because I’m playing in Spain this week and they only like the old stuff. But I want to play you Lies by Novamen. This is why I reactivated Viewlexx last year, because I think this is amazing.«

(music: Novamen – Lies)

I-f: »That’s the Novamen with Lies. Novamen are DJ Overdose and Mr Pauli from the Hague.«

(applause)

»It’s interesting you ask me about royalties because we’re in a strange situation with the internet and downloads and royalty organisations demanding money from people who put their stuff online, which I think is ridiculous. If I want to put my music online for you to download for free, nobody should pay for that. This whole royalties system must change. If you reproduce mechanically, like records or a CD, fine, you pay. If your music is downloadable, it should be available for everyone because you want it to be heard. That’s what I want to do with my own music pretty soon, make everything available for free so you can download and spread it as you want.«

RBMA: »So you won’t manufacture a CD?«

I-f: »If you want a CD to be manufactured, it can be; then you pay for it. If you want to burn your own CD you can do that.«

RBMA: »But with your new stuff, it will only be online, you won’t make a record?«

I-f: »There will always be product, I’m romantic enough to do a vinyl pressing.«

RBMA: »But how should an artist get paid for online music?«

I-f: »Give away the mp3s for free and if you want audio files you pay a small fee.«

RBMA: »For the WAV file? OK, this gets me back to internet radio where everything is available on demand with instant gratification. Do you think people still have the patience for a radio show?«

I-f: »If you add value to it with it live transmissions and special shows by third parties, people will definitely listen. That’s my experience with C-B-S, when there was live action or a special show – we had wave specialists and space specialists and there were always a good number of people listening. And trainspotters, too, you can always discover new tracks off other people.«

RBMA: »And why do you think your sound is so popular in the Netherlands, with people like your peers and a label such as Clone? What is it about your nu breed electro Italo thing that appeals to so many people in the Netherlands?«

I-f: »That’s a good question. It’s a good scene because it’s an old scene, we’ve been together a long time, since the early ‘90s, and slowly more people have got involved, great producers like Alden Tyrell, DJ Overdose, Mr Pauli and so on. The thing we always do is support each other, with advice, machines, etc. The distribution is close to hand, Clone in Rotterdam is selling our stuff. It’s easy to communicate and everyone is pretty straight-up about things.«

RBMA: »So you’d recommend a collective rather than being a lonely soldier?«

I-f: »There are plenty of outlets for lone rangers; but if everyone is his own boss, has total freedom in what he or she does, there aren’t too many rules or politics, then you will survive.«

RBMA: »I was also looking to hear about Rams Horn, there was always this love for...«

I-f: »Rams Horn were pretty shabby, they put out a lot of people’s records without telling people.«

RBMA: »Has everyone heard of Rams Horn?«

I-f: »Let’s keep it that way.«

RBMA: »But they had a nice sleeve design.«

I-f: »It sucked.«

RBMA: »I like it. Do you have anything they exploited?«

I-f: »If there’s an old disco track, Rams Horn exploited it. But I’ll play you some real electro that inspires me constantly. It’s Michael Jonzun who did the Jonzun Crew back in 1982.«

(music: Jonzun Crew – Space Is The Place)

»Jonzun Crew, Space Is The Place, and this gets us into the vocoder.«

RBMA: »What’s the difference between a vocoder and a talk box?«

I-f: »The talk box comes with this little hose in your mouth and works on feedback from the speaker. Zapp, for instance, had this and it’s a bit more sexy. The vocoder is more mechanical and robotic.«

RBMA: »What’s the fascination with robots?«

I-f: »That’s what we are, robots, slaves to the rhythm. I was always a sucker for mechanical voices, robot voices, female voices. It’s also an instrument, vocals are an instrument in a production but it’s an art to lay down vocals, I think it’s really hard. I recorded Secret Desire with a vocoder and it took me about 25 takes to get it right. The good thing with a vocoder is you don’t have to be a talented singer, no one will know.«

RBMA: »Is that why a lot of Italo records have that?«

I-f: »No, Italo records have cheesy male or female voices.«

RBMA: »They should have it then.«

I-f: »No, no, no, I love them. No changes.«

RBMA: »Everyone needs cheese in his life.«

I-f: »Yes, yes, and I’m Dutch, so go figure.«

RBMA: »Maybe we should open it up to the audience.«

Participant: »I’m Felipe from Peru and I was wondering if you could tell us the lyrics to Space Invaders.«

I-f: »Space invaders from outer space /
Space invaders they’ll take your place /
Space invaders they’ll kick your ass /
Space invaders smoking grass.«

(applause)

»I thought everyone knew those by now (laughs).«

Participant: »I think I appreciate techno music more now. When I came to Barcelona, the first gig I went to they were playing techno and I didn’t know what was going on, it was crazy and hectic.«

I-f: »Where was it?«

Participant: »One of the big clubs, called City Hall Theatre or something, I think it was you playing. I didn’t really understand it before, but I think I understand more now about what you feel with techno.«

I-f: »There is nothing to understand, you just have to feel it. I have this with heavy basslines, melodies, disco, drums.«

Participant: »It’s a funny feeling. Most people don’t understand my music, but I have a deep feeling for it.«

Participant: »I have two questions: what does I-f stand for?«

I-f: »Interference.«

Participant: »Thank you. The other is: how does a DJ who plays hardcore techno in squats fall in love with one of the cheesiest genres of all time?«

I-f: »It’s the other way round, I come from the early ‘80s, when there was disco, electro, Italo, all that stuff. Then, because of the Chicago thing, I thought Armando and DJ Pierre were heroes, with their 303 and 707 and they had such incredible grooves. They were basically my instruments and I just started ranting out tracks. This clashed with the Bunker guys, and this is how it all happened. I was away in a crazy trip for two or three years with this acid and techno thing, then I came back.«

Participant: »So it was from cheesiness to hardcore and back. Is there a thread connecting them? Do they have anything in common?«

I-f: »The 303 was used in more experimental but still danceable Italian records from ’83/’84. It was a weird instrument; as a bassline it was a failure. It was meant to be a bass synthesizer but it didn’t quite work and then the Phuture stuff came and opened up a whole new thing. Alexander Robotnick was big with the 303, he was one of the first who could programme it. The first time I visited Chicago I found the missing link: the Italo stuff was huge, huge, huge there and this inspired the Chicago guys to do their own thing, in their own more stripped way. Alessandro Novaga, a producer from around Rimini, was one of the first to make house. He made a record called Drums, with a 707 and a bit of an 808 kick. It’s a bit of a boring record, but I found out it was huge in Chicago and this is how Jesse Saunders got the idea for On And On, the repetitive, stripped, funky stuff.«

RBMA: »Do you have any of those tracks with you? Phuture? Drums?«

I-f: »No, no, no. You can find anything online, I think that’s a good thing, the record industry shouldn’t complain about that.«

RBMA: »I don’t think they’re complaining about that, simply that they won’t earn any money from it.«

I-f: »Oh well, just become a DJ, that’s where the money is. And for a band, it’s in performing; this is where the money is. I hate to be the one to tell you, but these are the times: promotion for what you do, a record or a mix CD. All producers are basically DJs or they perform live with their laptop set up. This is how you make money.«

RBMA: »So you should be as comfortable on a stage as you are at home in the studio?«

I-f: »I feel comfortable on a stage DJing, but not sitting in a couch talking, this is not my thing. I love to DJ, although any DJ will have experiences that totally suck, I’m still always up for it. I’m a DJ and a producer I found out, because as I told you, I have this unstoppable drive to play music. Sometimes within five minutes you’re in an empty room playing for yourself, but that happens, it comes with the job.«

RBMA: »But you have to sit a bit longer on this agonising couch because there is another question.«

Participant: »You played Michael Jonzun, and I guess he was a great influence on some people who’ve had some airplay on C-B-S, like Egyptian Lover and Arabian Prince, who you could call early west coast hip hop. I was wondering if you ever would’ve described yourself as a hip hop fan. And are you feeling it now?«

I-f: »Not really, but for me that comes with the electro category. I loved the old school hip hop like MC Shan, Schoolly D, Mantronix. Later it became too much of a product, but I wouldn’t say I don’t like hip hop because I still hear good tracks now and then.«

Participant: »Ferensz, it’s your old pal. Bunker, Atlantik Wall, what’s the fascination for World War II with the whole aesthetic these labels display?«

I-f: »The Bunker philosophy - Guy Tavares is the owner of Bunker so I won’t talk too much about him - but he is a major freak for bunkers and the Atlantic Wall and we were always very proud that we were part of the Atlantic Wall in the Hague. Our dream thing was to have our own bunker where we could produce music and make noise and walk out onto the beach. This is our fascination with bunkers and World War II and Bunker uses the old Panzer Kreuz (military symbol used by the german army in WWII - ed.) from the Germans, and the philosophy behind that is that it’s very clear and hard, and no bullshit. That’s the Bunker thing: concrete and no shit.«

Participant: »Do you think the Hague also has a special thing with bunkers because of its background?«

I-f: »Yeah, the Hague was part of the Atlantic Wall and the Germans had their headquarters there during the war and they loved it, it’s a beautiful city.«

RBMA: »It’s not related to politics?«

I-f: »No, politics is bullshit, but the government is there. The Hague is a very political city, but we try to avoid it because you get this scary political correctness which goes against my idea of freedom of speech.«

RBMA: »Any more questions?«

Participant: »Do you think Fischerspooner are the ones who made Space Invaders 2 and Space Invaders 3?«

I-f: »Probably. In ’96/’97 there was a second wave of electro coming up anyway: there was Adult, Ectomorph from Detroit, there was Electronome, I-F. There was a movement all at the same moment, this just happened. Fischerspooner came later.«

Participant: »The Hacker.«

I-f: »But that was ‘97/’98, he came with his thing at the same time. We had long discussions about that.«

RBMA: »I think he’s referring to – and the word we’ve been trying to avoid in the last two hours - electroclash.«

I-f: »I was also blamed for that and to be honest I don’t know what the definition of electroclash is, maybe it is Space Invaders Smoking Grass. But it got a bit slick and smelly.«

RBMA: »Electrocash.«

I-f: »Yes, yes. This isn’t what we stood for. Space Invaders happened because I wanted to make a record like that, I wanted to use a vocoder and make a record with space invaders. And when it was done I was satisfied with that. Cool. Move on.«

Participant: »Who are your favourite young producers, people who haven’t been around for many years?«

I-f: »Omar S, Theo Parrish.«

Participant: »No, I’m asking about young people.«

I-f: »Roberto Auser from Rotterdam, he’s extremely productive and very talented. It’s possible he’ll do something on Viewlexx, I’d love to carry some of his tracks. Mr Pauli, he’s been around for a while but he’s been reborn, his music is amazing and his live set too. I’m not often impressed by live sets, even my own - I’ll never do that again, it was terrible.«

RBMA: »Why?«

I-f: »I can express myself better without live sets, I always blow up my head and scream through the microphone. I’m a bit silly when it comes to that. Shit happens.«

Participant: »I was wondering if the Belgian scene – because there was a big Belgian scene in the early ‘90s – whether that had any effect on the Dutch scene, or was it more the other way around?«

I-f: »I’m not sure what scene you mean?«

Participant: »Like Cherry Moon, Boccaccio.«

I-f: »No, I think that was on its own, people from Holland went to Boccaccio and Cherry Moon to be there. They were very important for Belgium, it’s strange they’ve gone, there’s almost nothing left there.«

RBMA: »Have you been there?«

I-f: »I went to Boccaccio once, but I crashed my car the same night, and never went back again. It was an intense experience.«

Participant: »If you don’t buy vinyl anymore how do you get the stuff from Omar S?«

I-f: »I get the digital stuff from Omar S.«

Participant: »Does he sell digital?«

I-f: »I have contacts with Clone, who get promos, I get stuff nobody has (laughs).«

RBMA: »He mentioned Belgium, was nu beat something…?«

I-f: »No, that passed me by completely, there was nothing there for me.«

Participant: »Rotterdam, The Hague and Amsterdam all have their little scenes. Was there a lot of rivalry between the scenes?«

I-f: »Amsterdam scene was non-existent for us. There are some producers from Amsterdam involved in our thing - we call it the west coast of Holland - but Amsterdam isn’t really part of that, only a few key figures. We’re also working with the Rush Hour shop for Intergalactic FM and I’m very glad about that because it’s always been separated. Amsterdam is nice if you’re 16 and want to be naughty and smoke bad joints. But if you want the action and the intense club scene you’ve got to be in Rotterdam. For the last three years it’s been booming. The scene isn’t just Hague anymore, it’s expanded to Rotterdam and that’s how the west coast scene got started. There’s been some involvement from Amsterdam and other parts of Holland, but Amsterdam is really a bit dead, there’s not really any club life. There was Club 11, which was really insane, but I don’t know what happened, there’s not much going on in our field.«

RBMA: »Let’s call it a day. The man like I-f.«

(applause)