Session Transcript:
Oh No
Red Bull Music Academy, Seattle 2005

The video stream for this lecture can be watched here.

Welcome to the world of Oh No, aka 'The Disrupt', beatmaker, professional blunt smoker and video game player extraordinaire. His real name is Michael Jackson, and despite not being related to the moonwalking king of pop, he does have a successful sibling in the industry – producer and rapper Madlib, aka Otis Jackson Sr, whose bizarre recordings as Quasimoto, Yesterday’s New Quintet and Madvillain have all earned him much respect and notoriety in smoky cars, bedrooms and backroom jams the world over. Don’t get it twisted though, blood may be thicker than water, but it doesn’t define the mood and feel of your jams – Oh No’s stuttering, bleeped out flips have formed the backdrop to many an underground club anthem for cats like Dudley Perkins, aka Declaime, Cornbread, or his friend Roc C, whilst his offstage antics continually suggest his moniker is truly appropriate. True to form, Oh No blessed the Academy with a short but sweet interview which touches on all his major obsessions, from cars to consoles to crates. If you’re ever in swap meet where the Cali breeze blows, watch your elbows. Here comes trouble!

RBMA: »Ladies and gentlemen, welcome from California, Oh No. So, people might have heard of you for various reasons, from the records you put out. But what I want to talk to you about, that they might not know, is video games. A lot of people don't know, that there's a whole world, similar to – I guess you might say – digging for records.«

Oh No: »Yeah, man.«

RBMA: »But what's that all about?«

Oh No: »You know, I had a childhood hobby of playing games and stuff, along with music. And Madlib being my brother, we used to share a room. And whilst he had his music going on, I'd be on the games, and playing the crazy Nintendo, and everything, all the crazy underground games, swapmeet games, all that stuff. And while he’d be gone, I'd be on the beats, messing with his equipment, grindin’ out both. But games is big, man. They've got over 8.000 Nintendo games, all kinds of stuff.«

RBMA: »So underground games, what's that all about?«

Oh No: »That's all about people at home making ‘em.«

RBMA: »So this is like a game that was never meant for a commercial release.«

Oh No: »Yeah, never came out. They might flip something. They could take Mario and put someone else in it, from Contra or Rain King. Then you're playing a whole different kind of game. And they'll flip it. And it's made by underground people.«

RBMA: »Being that you are notorious for being one of the underground game kings, is there anybody else out there that could touch you?«

Oh No: »Yeah. My man DJ Romes, he's definitely a gamer. Just Blaze is a gamer. Me and him be yakking on the Xbox 360. Heavy, heavy battling on that. I know Del’s a gamer. There's a few gamers out there. Not like me and Blaze though. Me and Blaze, we got everything. I got over 36 different handhelds that are like Gameboys. PSP’s, GP32’s, Zodiac’s, everything. And each of them have crazy games on 'em, each system has its own crazy games, and they're all sick. Fighting games, adventure games, sports games, everything.«

RBMA: »So let the people know about that one special handheld you got.«

Oh No: »If anyone's familiar with the Atari 2600, I got a portable Atari 2600. I got it made. It's like a Gameboy. It's small, it's got a screen on it, with a spinner on it. You pop the games on the back, it takes batteries and stuff. I got that. I got a handheld Dreamcast. Dreamcast is one of my favourite systems, I'm a real big Sega fan. So I got a Dreamcast made, a handheld one, where the CD spins on the back, it's got a 5 inch screen. It only last for about two hours, though (laughs).«

RBMA: »Serious. So right now, everybody's like: ”Enough about games. I want to hear this guy talk about music." So does the game world and the music world collide for you?«

Oh No: »Yeah, definitely. Games and music go hand in hand. Usually, when you're playing games, you're playing music to it or something. And when I make beats, I look at it like when I'm playing a game. I don't play it just to play it, I play it to beat it, or play it to master it and have fun. You want to have fun with it. When I make beats, it's like the same thing. Like, when I used to hear layers and stuff on games... (phone rings, Oh No checks text message) Layers in games, that kind of taught me about doing it on an MPC with layers and stuff. Like Zelda, for instance, if you walked in a dungeon, you'd hear the music playing. But if you played the flute with it at the same time, then it would cut the music and drop the bassline just with the flute, so something different. And I would add that with the old drummachines and stuff, then flip it into the MPC, and it's like, a grown man's tool.«

RBMA: »It's almost like, an advanced gaming console.«

Oh No: »Exactly, and I look at it [like that] with instruments too. Like, I can't play straight up like normal musicians. But I like to have fun and just, having fun and being real high, it just comes out sick. It just comes out real melodic. That's how I get it done.«

RBMA: »For real. So I know that at one point or another you must have flipped video game sounds straight into a song that came out.«

Oh No: »Yeah. I always do that. I got tons of beats with video games and stuff.«

RBMA: »What was that track?«

Oh No: »The one that came out on my album was called The Ride. It was taken from a Nintendo game that I don't know if I should speak about. But a lot of people do know the game, probably seen it on the net or something.«

RBMA: »Can we listen to that one right now?«

Oh No: »Sure.«

RBMA: »Let's see if we can hook this up. What's it called?«

Oh No: »The Ride.«

(music: Oh No - The Ride)

»See, this is straight off a game. Put some layers to it, added a bassline, some drums. I don't remember what the break was but them drums was hot. It's a simple beat, it's an older beat.«

RBMA: »Straight off the game?«

Oh No: »Straight off the game. I actually heard it off the break. When I heard the break I was like: "Shit, I wanna go back and play them games and stuff." Went back. The old school Nintendo, it has an actual audio plug, where you can plug in straight up.«

RBMA: »Really?«

Oh No: »Yeah.«

RBMA: »Science for all of you looking for sample sources out there, definitely. So, what other sorts of things do you like to get into when it comes to making a beat? You’re sticking with drummachines or are you chopping up drums?«

Oh No: »I do it all. I just like to have fun, so whatever it is, I'll make a beat. I'll reverse, clowning, having fun. I tend to get ‘em done pretty quick. I usually get real blazed.«

RBMA: »Right.«

Oh No: »Let me explain. When I get blazed, it helps me concentrate. Like, a lot of people blaze to do it. I don't need to ‘cause I make beats sober when I wake up as well. But I have so many issues going on in my life that I got to blaze to concentrate, otherwise I can't concentrate right. I’ll be the madman, that's when Oh No comes out. Reason for the name and all. So, I get blazed, calms me down, go in there, make a bunch of beats, go outside to the car, bang 'em, and just keep making more. Put the samples on. Listen to the samples and shit, clown.«

RBMA: »No doubt. And you definitely have a reputation for turning the beats out. So you were talking about, you go out to the car and bump it?«

Oh No: »Yeah man, got to hop in the 'Cam. The ghetto Camry. I'm ghetto, man. I keep my shit real dirty. I'm dirty, I'm ghetto, I like it raw. I'm a raw dude, I'm not a clean dude. If you hear my beats, they’d be raw. Clean ones too, for the clean people. But most of the time, it's pretty raw (audible laughs from participants)«

RBMA: »They're dirty, man. So what kind of system you got in your car?«

Oh No: »I got an Alpine with some 16”s in there. Just some regular...«

RBMA: »Right. I think that's the difference for me, between East Coast and West Coast rap. Most of the people out on the West Coast are listening to music in their cars. So that requires a certain type of sound. Where as on the East Coast, a lot of us just had headphones, little boxes, something like that. That's why you don't [get] that deep kick [in East Coast rap].«

Oh No: »Like, where I'm at, people like bumpin' particularly a lot of gangster music, or super underground ‘backpack’ music. Whatever they want. But like, I just saying I like it all. I just make sure my beats bump. I like to bump, go disturbing the area. That's my main key. I like basslines and stuff. Make sure it knocks. I like raw beats too ‘cause what's what I was raised off. Being in a room with Madlib, I heard everything. I used to hear his beats. And he put me on to everybody too, like my sister put me on to everyone. I grew up off the raw, so I really like the raw a lot.«

RBMA: »Your brother has one of the sickest record collections out there.«

Oh No: »Sick. Sick. So sick I don't even know how he knows all of it (laughter).«

RBMA: »Are you a digger like that?«

Oh No: »Nah, not like Madlib ‘cause he's definitely one of a kind. He's definitely a digger. He'll be in the spot from when it opens till it closes. I don't got money like that, like I said, I'm pretty ghetto. I got to extend it out everywhere. Nah, but I definitely go digging. I go digging for hours. Not a long time though. You know why I can't dig a lot? ‘Cause they play a lot of other music.«

RBMA: »In the spots where you're looking?«

Oh No: »Yeah! All kinds of other music. And, like I said, I smoke so I can concentrate. And being there, I can't even think. I'll have a game plan, like: “I wanna hear this and that, I wanna go out there.” And when I get there, it's like I forgot everything cause I'm hearing this heavy metal guitar, then it goes into something else, they're just playing the ill collection. It just throws me off every time.«

RBMA: »In the thrift stores, you never know what you're going to hear.«

Oh No: »Yeah, it's wild. Swap meets, go digging at them swap meets.«

RBMA: »Oh yeah? What's swap meets all about? I heard about that a lot.«

Oh No: »Swap meets got all kinds of stuff. Like, you can find gems in there for nothing. I mean, every record is pretty much a gem. You can make a beat off of anything. I don't care if it's, like [Academy crew member] Torsten said, Willie Nelson to whatever. It just matters on how creative that person is when they're flipping it when you hear it. Like we were talking, to arrange, you're listening to sounds. You have to listen for everything, and hear how it was created and how you think it should go. You can do that with anything. It might not be the sickest, but it might be real creative. So, it's about having fun, going in there and doing your thing.«

RBMA: »So actually, we got a chance to put your words to the test 'cause for this whole ArRange project, you were given some material to do what you do with.«

Oh No: »Yeah.«

RBMA: »You came up with some stuff.«

Oh No: »I came up with some beats for the ArRange project. I didn't really know exactly what was going on, I just know they gave me some music. I made like, six beats right off the bat, just to have fun with it and see what I was working with. They're all creative beats.«

RBMA: »So let's have a go with one of the songs you chopped up.«

(Oh No scratches sampled record.)

»OK, back to the scheduled lecture. We're going to check this Clare Fischer record out, and then hear what you did with it. Do you remember which one you used here?«

Oh No: »Yeah, they sent me some Clare Fischer tracks. And I heard this one here. I believe Jay Dee might have flipped something off this record for Q-Tip, so I didn't really want to touch it too much ‘cause Jay Dee is Jay Dee, you know? Killin’ it. So I heard this piece.«

(music: Clare Fischer - unknown)

»Can I turn it up? So I just took that little piece. I was extra high (laughter).«

RBMA: »Don't try this at home.«

Oh No: »Yeah, don't try that at home. If you don’t want to get high, don't do that. But if you do, do two of ‘em! Anyway (more laughter).«

Oh No: »Anyway, so I took that, put a clap to it. I wanted some wah’s in it. I added a bassline to it.«

(triggers samples on the MPC, then runs sequences / beat plays / after a few variations, Oh No stops the sequence)

RBMA: »That's where the MC would spit if an MC were spitting on it. Usually, I make beats for rappers and stuff. I usually rap on every beat I make, but they don't be coming out. I just tailor it for myself. And then... (laughs) I put another segment in there.«

(plays sequence off the MPC again, this time adding a descending breakdown)

»And then it goes back to it. And then I get blown again.«

RBMA: »Alright. Can you break down the elements (points at MPC pads)? Let them understand.«

Oh No: »Alright, let me explain it. See, when I make beats, too, I never save. I usually make a beat and move on ‘cause usually when I save stuff, it'll have errors. Like I said, I'm from Oxnard, so my MPC's pretty ghetto. I usually make it with it open ‘cause the buttons be flipping out and stuff (waves hands to indicate removing the MPC lid). I don't save it, ‘cause when I save it, it always has errors. So, when they told me I was doing Clare Fischer, I had to re-do it again, and usually when you re-do it, it doesn't usually sound the same as before. So it's a little bit different to what I had originally. It doesn't matter but… (plays MPC pads) So that is the original sample. But I put it through a wah wah effect. Like that part has a little high part in it, I put it a bit later in the song. But I just put it all on one thing, ‘cause I had to redo the beat, so I had to resample the shit. Then I went for the bassline. For the bassline, I like my basslines real low, 'cause again, I like to bump. So again, just a simple thing.«

(plays bass tone on MPC)

RBMA: »Where did you get that tone from, the bass tone?«

Oh No: »Bass tone? It can come from various things. That particular one came direct off a 808 bass thumps, like ’boooommmmmm’. So I trimmed it to a certain part, and then looped it so ’hummmmmm’, you can play it as long as you want.«

RBMA: »Aha! OK, secret techniques.«

Oh No: »For some lows. Cymbals, snare (plays sounds from MPC). It's a simple beat. And then I added some cymbals and stuff.«

RBMA: »Let me hear the original.«

Oh No: »(rewinds record, finds the spot) Like I said, I could’ve used a lot of pieces from it. But my man Dilla, for respect, I didn't want to use pieces that he had used.«

RBMA: »You didn't want to use the same?«

Oh No: »Like yeah, he had flipped it for Q[-Tip] (plays the original parts from the record). There's one. There's another. I put a timestretch on this one too.«

RBMA: »A timestretch?«

Oh No: »Yeah, ‘cause it's fast, it's extra fast. So as you can see it's slower on there.«

RBMA: »So can you play the beat again?«

Oh No: »Yeah (plays beat), see? Slower. By the way, if you can't do a timestretch on the MPC you can do an easy timestretch with a CDJ (slows tempo but not the pitch on the CDJ in front of him).«

RBMA: »So what you're saying is?«

Oh No: »You can sample it like this (runs CD slowly) or like this (runs CD fast).«

RBMA: »So you can use the CDJ as a timestretcher by basically using the tempo and the pitch control.«

Oh No: »Yeah, it's easier for a lot of people.«

RBMA: »Than doing a timestretch. So you normally use the MPC?«

Oh No: »Yeah, I used to use the SP-1200 back in the days. That was Madlib's, though. When he moved out I got my own stuff.«

RBMA: »What's rest of your studio look like?«

Oh No: »Oh my studio, it's just ghetto, man. Like I said, it's in a room. Like, I got two studios. I got one in DJ Romes' spot, from the Lootpack, and then I got my own spot. It's just in my room, man. I got a little ProTools set-up, a couple of keyboards, an MS-2000 or whatever. I got a couple of Roland keyboards and stuff. MPC. Couple of effects things. Some DJ stuff. Turntables, CDJ. Just regular setup. I got a Roland VS-1680.«

RBMA: »Is that what you record into mainly?«

Oh No: »I used to record into that all the time, but nowadays I just record straight into ProTools ‘cause that way it's there already. I go from my MP, to my Roland, to ProTools. So I make the beat right there and then I save it like that, that way I don't got to save it on disc.«

RBMA: »So when you record into ProTools, do you have the tracks isolated like that, so that you can seperate them, drums and the bass and all?«

Oh No: »Yep. I don't spend a lot of time doing mixdowns either though 'cause that's not how we do things in the Ox. We like it dirty, we keep it raw. We do five minute mixdowns. One pass and we're done.«

RBMA: »So, what do you look for in a track when you're doing the mixdown? You want the drums up front, loud? What's the key element?«

Oh No: »Really, there is no key element when it comes to that ‘cause every beat is different. I tend to make beats different all the time. I don't usually like to make ‘em the same all the time. I dig for different sounds. If I make a beat off something, say, a soul record, then the next time I pick up a record it's not going to be a soul record. Say, a classical record or something, jazz, maybe some rock, whatever. Maybe a Nintendo game, whatever.«

RBMA: »Right.«

Oh No: »I mean, making beats to me is just about putting sounds together. You're arranging the sounds and it has to be fun and creative. Be creative. That's all it's about.«

RBMA: »So you got another one queued up there on the MP?«

Oh No: »Sure, I'll get one real quick. You want to play a Deodato?«

RBMA: »Yeah, here's one made up of Mr Deodato's tracks.«

Oh No: »This one is made off... I didn't want to do too much. It's from Skyscrapers.«

RBMA: »Skyscrapers?«

Oh No: »Yeah. With the bassline (sings the notes). This ain't no rocket science. Loading.«

RBMA: »Oh, it's still loading? The MPC 2000 XL.«

Oh No: »Like I said, I don't usually save stuff. And it's definitely never Zips. If I did, it would be like ten discs or something ‘cause the samples are so long. What they gave to me, I wanted to make sure the orchestra could do it as well. I didn't wanna make it all crazy and chopped up so they'd be like: “What the hell is this?” I wanted to stay true to his element as well. It's actually of two Deodato songs, I took the drums of Deodato as well.«

RBMA: »So it's a combination of two different [tunes]?«

Oh No: »Yeah.«

RBMA: »OK.«

Oh No: »(plays Deodato beats) So that's one for Deodato and the orchestra. The orchestra will be playing that tonight if we can get some rehearsal time in.«

RBMA: »Absolutely, which is the reason why we have to cut this whole process a little bit shorter than we could’ve done. «

Oh No: »The reason why is that I'm doing a four beat medley. So I'm sitting down with the arranger to do all the notes has taken time. So, when the first rehearsal day came, only one part was done, so they couldn't do anything. The next day came and it still wasn't done. So hopefully we'll knock it out today and it's going to be ready to go.«

RBMA: »The important thing is to have fun.«

Oh No: »Exactly.«

RBMA: »And make your music.«

Oh No: »Exactly, it's what it's all about. «

RBMA: »So just before we open it up here, I just wanted to find out what projects you're working on right now?«

Oh No: »Right now, I just finished up my man Roc C’s album that's coming out on Stones Throw. He was featured on the Dilla track, ‘Move’, he's got a single out now that's doing real well. I'm finishing up a project with Galt MacDermot. Galt MacDermot is the cat who composed Hair, Cotton Comes To Harlem and all that stuff. My man Egon put me on to it and I basically flipped 40 something beats out of that, turned it into a compilation. Getting all kinds of OG's on it that I looked up to like Wise Intelligent, Posdnous from De La, all kinds of cats, Wordsworth, all kinds of cats on that.«

RBMA: »You got into Galt MacDermot's tapes?«

Oh No: »Yeah, yeah. I went out there and hooked up with him, he gave me all kinds of material. Egon gave me all kinds of material. They said: “Do what you want to do with it.” So that's on it's way. It's called The Exodus Into Unheard Rhythms. Exodus being a large group, going on a journey. And the rhythms, it's not like typical Oh No stuff. I mean, it's banging, but it's all Galt MacDermot stuff so I wanted to make it real melodic and musical. It's pretty sick. It's going to be real sick.«

RBMA: »And that's coming out on Stones Throw?«

Oh No: »Yeah, yeah. And I'm like 60 something songs deep into my next album.«

RBMA: »Wow.«

Oh No: »Me and Madlib are working on a project too. We got like, 15 or 16 songs done. That's coming out real sick, too, look out for that.«

RBMA: »So how much time do you usually spend on a beat if you're… I've heard you do eight in a day? «

Oh No: »I do ten or eleven in a day. It just depends. Some beats just need days on ‘em, some need a minute. Depends on how you're looking at it, what you're wanting out of it. If you want a raw beat, raw beats don't really take too much. If you want it real melodic and layered out, that's going to take a minute, depending on how you look at it. Some people catch it right away. You got to hear basslines in music. Not necessarily the bassline that's playing but the one that you hear that goes along with it in your head. You got to make it up. My head's always making things up. It's just always moving. That's why I got to slow it down.«

RBMA: »Right. Well, I know you got to be out of here soon to get over to the rehearsal but I want to give everybody out there a chance to say what they have to say, if anybody got any questions for Oh No up here. Anybody? Going once. Anybody? «

Oh No: »I gotta question.«

RBMA: »What’s up?«

Oh No: »Where's the blunts at (laughter)?«

RBMA: »That's something we can discuss after the microphones are turned off.«

Oh No: »That's what’s up.«

RBMA: »Alright then. You're going to get over to the hall for rehearsal and tonight we're going to hear some incredible music, I'm sure.«

Oh No: »It's going to be real live. A lot of people out here, doin’ it. Real big. Kirk Degiorgio, Underground Resistance, everybody. Definitely the greats are knocking in that hall. David Matthews. Damn! Deodato, all of them. Clare Fischer, Brent Fischer his son is out here too. It's going to be live.«

RBMA: »It's going to be nice tonight. Alright man, thanks for coming down.«

Oh No: »Thanks.«