Session Transcript:
Sa-Ra Creative Partners
Red Bull Music Academy, Rome 2004

The video stream for this lecture can be watched here.

Om'Mas Keith of the Sa-Ra Creative Partners trio grew up in Queens, fighting against all the negative influences around, 'maintaining positive'. He was born as the fourth generation of a musical family - his great-grandfather was a copyist for George Gershwin, his mother was a reputable jazz singer. Studying jazz percussion at the University of Massachusetts, he was tutored by people such as Max Roach and Yusef Lateef. He then started working in production at 17-years old, mixing records for Ice T, went on to mix songs for people like Foxy Brown and Mobb Deep before winding up with Jam Master Jay and as a staff producer for Suave House (a well-known hip hop production house). In 2000, Om'Mas got a call from his friends Shafiq Husayn and Taz Arnold, who had both moved out to L.A., (from Queens, N.Y.C, and South Central, Las Vegas, respectively), and they convinced him that the time was right to form a super-friends music collective. (Taz had been working as a consultant on albums like Dr Dre's 2001, and managing/producing artists, and Shafiq had carried records for Jazzy Jay and Afrika Bambaataa, before going on to produce people like Lord Finesse and Ice T). With influences from people as diverse as Giorgio Moroder, Steely Dan, Funkadelic, Ornette Coleman and R.E.M, they're also 'children of the beat generation', along with people like Pete Rock, Jay Dee, Q-Tip, and Madlib. On top of this heady mixture, they add sweet vocal harmonies and a spacey fusion flavour all their own. Their message at this Academy session was that if you got bite, don't be afraid to bark.
»This is a visual time; so many ads, colours, and advertisements... everyone wants your attention. You got to say: "This is me, this is my plan." If you wanna get involved, cool. If you don't, forget about it.«

RBMA: »We’re very glad to have them here, please welcome if you will, Om’mas and Taz from Sa-Ra.«

(applause)

Taz: »Sa-Ra is an ancient African term, Kemetic; Kemet is the original name for Egypt. The name translates to be the offspring of the most powerful energy in the universe, or child of the cosmos. You know you hear a Ra, it’s the same concept. So the name is Sa-Ra.«

RBMA: »Now, how did you guys come up with that or what made you decide to choose that as being representative of what you were doing ‘cause you were from South Central?«

Taz: »Los Angeles, right.«

RBMA: »(To Om’Mas) And you were from Hollis, Queens, New York, originally. So the name obviously connotates certain things which you’ve obviously started from very grounded sort of places as well.«

Taz: »The name is basically just a reflection of our lifestyle. Very big on, very big history buffs and, into manifesting one’s own destiny and so we study one of the Godin, the highlights of civilisation, which was Africa/Egypt so to speak. Kemet - we just drew from that powerful, good energy. You know they had a thing where they were literally trying to manifest heaven on earth, the study of the constellation, the stars, which correspond directly with the pyramids and how things are correlated. With us just being - that being a part of our lifestyle, just studying history so to speak, that’s the name that we chose.«

RBMA: »Let’s clarify right off the bat as well, that you are a three person entity.«

Taz: »Our partner couldn’t make it, he’s in Los Angeles right now holding the studio down, Shafiq Husayn.«

RBMA: »And his name is Shafiq Husayn?«

Taz: »Correct.«

RBMA: »Describe for everybody a little bit what road you guys took as individuals to get to this point where you were able to come together and do what you do now. As I mentioned earlier, you guys have been working in the business for a while doing various things and I think that would be interesting for folks to know.«

Taz: »(To Om’mas) You want to start off? OK, well, I’ll speak about Shafiq since he’s not here to represent himself.«

Om’Mas: »We can both speak on his behalf.«

Taz: »You know, so Shafiq originally started out in Bronx, New York, made his way to Los Angeles maybe 15 years ago, started producing for Ice T and the Zulu Nation. Before that he was a DJ with Grandmixer DXT.«

Om’Mas: »[He was a] Zulu king, carried records for Bambaata and Jazzy Jay.«

Taz: »Right, right, right, as a youngster, so then he moved to Los Angeles and started off as a producer working with Ice T, he produced a majority of Ice T’s records. He worked with Donald D, King T, Lord Finesse, Jesse West, Prince, Duran Duran and a lot of different people, you know? He was somewhat of an inspiration for me when I was in high school ‘cause he was in the record industry making records you knew at that time.«

Om’Mas: »He was very much an inspiration for me, too.«

RBMA: »He’s a little bit older than you guys?«

Taz: »He’s a tad bit older, he just started off at a very, very early age, you know? So that’s pretty much how he got into [that]. That was his approach, how he started off. Myself, I was a hip hop dancer in like, elementary school, I did a lot of music videos in Los Angeles. In high school, [I] started producing when I was maybe like 17. I was into digging, you know my father had about five thousand jazz and soul records in his living room so I was into the records before I actually got into the actual hands-on production. But my producer side didn’t really kick in till much later. I had a stronger background on the administrative side, I was the main consultant on Dr. Dre's - 2001 LP.«

RBMA: »By consultant, explain what that would mean?«

Taz: »A consultant is a person who literally just brings things to the project, an advisor, so to speak. So I acted as an advisor, a consultant, I brought in Devin the Dude, he was on a song.«

RBMA: »The song was called F*** You, I believe?«

Taz: »Yeah, I just wanna F*** You. Also, there was a MC named Hittman, he was on 12 of the songs on the album, he was my artist at the time, signed to my production company. So I had a distribution deal through Aftermath where Dre produced half of his LP and I produced the other half with my constituents. And [I] moved out of that and we, me and Shafiq and Om’mas, were talking about putting together a supergroup in a super production unit and a super label, production company.«

Om’Mas: »Super friends, you know (giggles)?«

Taz: »Super friends! Yeah, we talked about it for maybe six years off an on and then it finally happened maybe about three years ago.«

RBMA: »OK.«

Taz: »So after the Dre thing, I moved straight into the Sa-Ra phase, you know?«

RBMA: »OK, Agent Orange.«

(music Pharoah Monche - Agent Orange / applause)

Taz: »Agent Orange is pretty much a mix of what you would call the 'beat generation, Madlib is a part of it, Jay Dee, Pete Rock before, you know, who preceded them, Q-Tip, Large Professor. And we’re children of the beat generation, but we’re also musicians. So you know where you hear the driving beat and the unorthodox bassline, which stems from…«

Om’Mas: » (laughing) And that beat makes you go like ‘uggh’, you know?«

Taz: »And that beat is a little bit in between or off kilter or what have you. The bassline is more so freeform jazz, Sun Ra, Ornette Coleman style. This kind of abstract [thing]. And then you have very structured guitar playing on top. So that is a pretty much a good example of three different things that we all do necessarily.«

Om’Mas: »Don’t forget the singing.«

Taz: »Oh, then we, of course, we sang on it and… So that’s like three different sounds coming together, working together to make something new, you know?«

RBMA: »So, on a pure sort of elemental level then, what portion of this song in particular did you use any sort of sampling or anything like that?«

Taz: »The only thing sampled with that track are the drums from the SP-1200, drum sounds. Then we go and we program [the beat]. Everything else is pretty much live.«

Om’Mas: »Anybody here [who] digs for records and takes drum snippets?«

(participants nods affirmation)

Om’Mas: »Yeah, OK.«

RBMA: »Pretty much everybody.«

Om’Mas: »(smiling) Keep your secrets, you know?«

RBMA: »Now, you sort of mentioned just now that with a track like this or the Jurassic record that you did, that the impact was made more so globally. Why do you think that rather than maybe in the States, why do you think that people have been more receptive to things outside of the States?«

Taz: »I think in the States, what people perceived to be, or what they are aware of, it stems from television and big radio stations. That’s the mainline, that’s the pipeline so if you’re not fed through that pipeline, the masses really don’t hear you, you know, and that song was his last single, but he didn’t have a video for it.«

RBMA: »Right.«

Taz: »So, therefore it wasn’t pushed through that pipeline. Now, in the UK, you know, if someone likes a song, Gilles Peterson, uhhh, Tim Westwood, he’s like the Funkmaster Flex of the UK. Tim Westwood dug it and he just went crazy with the song, Gilles Peterson, Benji B, different DJs and it caught, you know? It caught on like wildfire, you know what I mean?«

RBMA: »You guys actually did some appearance on Gilles Peterson’s show.«

Taz: »Yeah, right.«

RBMA: »In August, I believe, or was it earlier?«

Taz: »August, right. No, that was actually in July.«

RBMA: »Oh, in July, OK.«

Taz: »He aired it in August.«

RBMA: »That did quite a bit for you in the UK. Describe a little a bit about what you did and why you think that helped so much and what he was latching onto.«

Taz: »Well, we were actually on a tour. We went to Holland, we did the North Sea Jazz Festival.«

Om’Mas: »The Hague.«

Taz: »And The Hague, we played the Paradiso in Amsterdam.«

Om’Mas: »Cafe Sauvage in Paris.«

Taz: »Yeah, we did a show with Erick Sermon in Paris and then we made our way to London and we were kind of flirting with Gilles Peterson and Benji B for some time, you know? They would play some of our mp3s some of our CD-R’s on the air and so they were like: "When you come to town we want to do interviews." So we actually did Benji B and Gilles Peterson the same night.«

Om’Mas: »(muffled laughter)«

Taz: »Benji B’s aired live and Gilles…«

Om’Mas: »Taped.«

Taz: »His was taped«

Om’Mas: »Gilles was live. That was Sa-Ra live at the BBC.«

Taz: »So we went on. For Benji B we went and played tracks and did an interview. For Gilles we sang seven songs live and did an interview so it was, it did well for us, you know? It actually has had a weird effect because people in the States tune into those stations online and you have a lot of people who are aware of us from listening to Gilles Peterson and Benji B. They’ve never heard anything else, you know? So they’re being fed from the UK back into the States because they’re somewhat afficionados and tastemakers so anything coming through that pipeline gets a certain amount of attention.«

RBMA: »It’s kind of like the backdoor way to go about getting recognised.«

Taz: »(nodding affirmation) Right, right, right.«

RBMA: »I think it would be interesting now to hear some of your own stuff under your own name, maybe something that broke on the show.«

Taz: »OK, OK.«

RBMA: »You know, to give everybody an idea of what it is that you guys do as artists yourselves.«

Taz: »We’ll start off with Glorious. This is a track that they really support. Gilles, one of Gilles and Benji’s favourites, so this is kind of like the track that…«

Om’Mas: »This is our first single.«

Taz: »Yeah it’s also our first single that’s been released in another two weeks so I’ll start off with this, creatin’ somewhat of a buzz…«

RBMA: »Glorious.«

Taz: »(over the beginning of the song) This is just Cosmic Slop [by Funkadelic], I don’t really know how to describe it - this is the shit!«

(music: Sa-Ra - Glorious / applause)

Om’Mas: »You want to hit ‘em with another one?«

Taz: »What do you want to hear?«

RBMA: »You want to hit ‘em with something else right now?«

Taz: »Yeah we do somethin’ else… (to Om'mas) you want to go more live? Or you want to do Vampyr, Love Today, Death Of A Star? What you want?«

Om’Mas: »Take it to Death Of A Star real quick.«

Taz: »OK, we’ll do that…«

Om’Mas: »So, Glorious is basically the A-side title of our first single, which is being released through a joint venture between our company and ABB records in the [San Francisco] bay. This next song we’re about to play, is on our second single to be released from our forthcoming LP on Ubiquity Records, which is called Sa-Ra Creative Partners Presents. It’s yet untitled and this is the first single, this is the B-side Death Of A Star.«

(music Sa-Ra - Death Of A Star)

RBMA: »Death Of A Star!«

(applause)

RBMA: »So two contrasting styles.«

Om’Mas & Taz: »Right, yeah.«

Taz: »That’s why we chose…«

RBMA: »To show a little bit of the range, you mentioned Cosmic Slop with regards to the first track that you played.«

Taz: »Right, right, right«

RBMA: »Umm, if people know what Cosmic Slop is in reference to, it’s an old Funkadelic track from back in the day. (turning to Taz) I don’t know if you want to embellish on that at all. Now, that first track I think you told me yesterday, that was actually done a couple of years ago. Is that correct?«

Taz: »Yeah, yeah, that was one of our first tunes that we’ve actually recorded and (turning to Om'mas) that’s about what two and a half [years old]?«

Om’Mas: »Yep!«

Taz: »About two and a half years.«

Om’Mas: »It’s just a lesson in that songs that you create, as long as they’re good songs, just remember they can always be re-adapted. And in this case it wasn’t necessary but over the course of two years and even still that song was able and it is able to remain current, so you know…«

Taz: »It’s kind of like how you said earlier about pushing the envelope, moving forward.«

Om’Mas: »Right!«

Taz: »You know, if you’re dressing, trying to do something different and new and original, it’s something that’s new, different and original, you know what I mean?«

Om’Mas: »And at the time when you do it… People, if it’s new, I mean people aren’t gonna necessarily know, maybe only you yourself know that it’s the shit, so to speak.«

Taz: »Perfect example, like you have Roy Ayers, he released an album recently and he released tunes from his '70s archives, which you know I haven’t heard the songs. No one in the world has never heard them and they sound brand new and current.«

Om’Mas: »Uh huh.«

RBMA: »Right, right.«

Taz: »Over, you know, 30 years old.«

RBMA: »Just to breakdown a song like Glorious, I’m curious to know what you feel is, if there’s a particular element that you feel is somewhat, most different to you as far as what you hear. I mean, I think if people hear the rhythm track, they’re gonna liken some similarities to Jay Dee’s stuff.«

Taz: »Right, with the late clap, right, right, right.«

RBMA: »As far as the other elements, what do you see as being you know…?«

Taz: »For that track?«

RBMA: »The most unique to you.«

Taz: »I mean, you know, when it comes to a rhythm, there’s not too many new rhythms. Rhythms are pretty much standard in a lot of cases, but we get off on writing songs, you know what I mean? So, one thing that I can say for that particular song, you haven’t heard in our generation a beat like that with…«

Om’Mas: »…with a song.«

Taz: »Keyboard playing live with that type of song on top. So I think that’s kind of like a contrast, you know what I mean? Like wearing, having like a full beard, you look scruffy and you know you look like a homeless guy in the face but then you wearing a Gucci suit.«

RBMA: »Uh, huh.«

Taz: »It’s like what is that homeless dude doing with a Gucci suit on? It’s kind of beautiful in a way.«

Om’Mas: »Ugly beauty.«

RBMA: »You mentioned Funkadelic, are you fans of Queen at all as well?«

Taz: »Yeah.«

RBMA: »I sense a little sort of like that type of, you know, with the harmonies.«

Taz: »(interrupting) Oh yeah right, the Glorious…«

RBMA: »The octaves, stuff like that.«

Taz: »We’re fans of like, you know, it spawns the gamut I mean we like Queen, R.E.M., Bowie… Shit… Sly, everyone from the negro spirituals on up and we know how the music is all connected.«

Om’Mas: »From punk to Monk.«

Taz: »Right, right, from punk to Monk.«

RBMA: »With Death Of A Star you have a little bit more of a maybe Earth Wind & Fire type of, more uplifting type of vibe going on. How recently was that done by you guys?«

Om’Mas: »Very recently.«

Taz: »That song was done about a month ago.«

Om’Mas: »That’s fresh, that’s hot off the presses right there.«

RBMA: »And is that you guys singing or is that you in collaboration with other artists?«

Taz: »We sing. Every song that you hear from Sa-Ra, we sing the leads. So all the three partners, we write, produce and sing all of the songs. Yeah, I mean, if you hear anything, maybe there’s like some of our artists who accompany us on background harmonies, like women particularly 'cause we like the…«

Om’Mas: »…female energy.«

Taz: »Contrast between the men and the women, you know, what that creates. So we always like to have a women’s energy on a lot of our songs.«

RBMA: »I guess, as far as the process of you guys putting things together, there’s three of you, is there any particular way that songs come together in the studio or an idea comes to fruition and realized as a real record?«

Taz: »I mean, anything that we do, we take serious. Because as a producer we can develop anything. So if anyone comes to the table with an idea they feel strongly about, then we go ahead and we see it through. But in most cases, we’re just like in the studio chatting about or what have you and these songs they come to fruition.«

Om’Mas: »Our songs are very conceptual and they reflect a lot of our personal lives, as I think good songs should. They should reflect the personal life of the writer, or just anyone, you know? You should draw upon your surroundings to create your music. That’s how we’re able to cultivate our songs because we’re such, dare I say, historians. But really, we really do a lot of research into our world and we really live, we live that kind of lifestyle, and were able to just draw on all of these influences to create lyric and melody. Somebody might have just seen a bad girl, some fine ass woman on the street and be like: "I seen this fine girl," and maybe the way Shafiq will say it, the way he’ll phrase it, that might be the title of the song and then we’ll just build from there.«

Taz: »Right, right. Like, like…«

Om’Mas: »You know what I mean? (to Taz) Go ahead.«

Taz: »There’s usually two phases, stages, in how we create our songs. There’s a beat, the music aspect, right? And that just goes from us, like I said before, in the studio, messin’ around.«

Om’Mas: »The beats…«

Taz: »Doin’ what we feel, beats, and then we pick from the beats that we like, and that’s when it’s more analytical, we go in to write the songs…«

RBMA & Taz: »(in unison) So it’s two different stages.«

Taz: »Right.«

Taz: »Usually, not all the time.«

Om’Mas: »Cut, copy and paste.«

Taz: »Right.«

Om’Mas: »Some songs come in, some of our songs literally come in 15 to 20 minutes.«

Taz: »Hollywood.«

Om’Mas: »From the beat to the verses to the hook, it’s done. I won’t say, some producers will say some of their best stuff is done in like 15 minutes. It definitely, it definitely can happen, many of you may feel you’ve done like a really dope beat in a short amount of time, so you know it can happen any way. We have records that we began and didn’t finish for a year and a half, from inception to the end. Creativity should not be bound by any restrictions, ever. The only time you got restrictions is like in the film world or the television world where you got a deadline and you know sometimes the music reflects on TV. You hear it maybe not be so fresh or not so well thought out, but like I said, it can happen any way. It can take two years to make a song, it can take 10 minutes to make a song. Producers and artists, there’s no real distinction between us right now, we’re producers and artists. A producer might say: "Do it right, I don’t care how many takes it takes." You’re gonna do it right and we’re hard on ourselves like that and sometimes it just happens, it just happens that that take is the magical take. But in the process of producing records you do run across that time where that magical one time take happens and ProTools and digital audio workstations in particular have enabled us to really have released the constraints, have allowed us to keep the first take and continue on. Do you know what I mean? So it’s like you say: “Well, what about that first take?” It’s always there, the first take is there, it’s never been erased because it’s all digital.«

Taz: »Right, right, right. It’s very interesting that you bring that up because that’s an ongoing struggle within. That’s what allows us to have the sound that we have in arrange. Because one person might say: “No, we want the song fucked up,” and the other cat might say: “Nah, get it right,” you know? I’ll play you another tune, this is Space Ways.«

Om’Mas: »Oh, yeah.«

Taz: »And this is very unconventional. This is one of our earlier things.«

Om’Mas: »(to Taz) You gonna play the version with the vocals?«

Taz: »Yeah, yeah. This is one of our earlier joints.«

Om’Mas: »Just to show more range and constast.«

Taz: »And Om’Mas is a more, in regards to music theory, he’s been trained since he was younger. We all play by ear but this is something, we did a beat, we’re all in the studio messin’ around and we’re playin’ tracks, we’re playin’ chords.«

Om’Mas: »And I was like… (makes a face indicating something’s not right).«

Taz: »"That’s not right, that’s not right." So we’re like: "No, we want this to go down like this," right? And he’s like: "I won’t touch the track."«

Om’Mas: »But on the vocal side later, see and this is getting back to, really quick, steppin’ back to a song that took a year and a half to finish.«

Taz: »Right!«

Om’Mas: »’Cause it’s a beat that wasn’t quite understood. But later we came to understandings. Our tastes change and advance and so I was like: "Nah, I won’t touch the beat." They was like ‘cool’ and then later we had to do the theme song for a very popular Los Angeles radio station called Spaceways.«

Taz: »Hosted by a guy called Carlos Niño of Build An Ark collective.«

Om’Mas: »So he’s like: "Yo guys, can you do my theme song?" And so this beat was layin’ around and Taz is like: "Yo, bro." I remember very specifically, I had to leave to go to New York and my plane was about to depart in an hour and Taz is like: "C’mon man, let’s just do this real quick, c’mon." So, we did it and cats were able to kind of like dissect the music and find the structure within this madness, you’re gonna hear from the changes.«

RBMA: »OK.«

Om’Mas: »Very unconventional.«

RBMA: »So this is?«

Taz: »Spaceways.«

RBMA: »Spaceways.«

Om’Mas: »(inaudible) Flyin’ for you, make sure the volume’s right up.«

Taz: »Oh yeah, also, you’ll hear a melody that some of you might know, uh, by June, June Tyson of the Sun Ra collective. So we grabbed a little part and threw it in there.«

Om’Mas: »A little copy, cut and paste.«

Taz: »We sang it, but you know, jus’ a tribute to one of our ancestors.«

Om’Mas: »Sun Ra.«

(music: Sa-Ra - Spaceways / applause)

RBMA: » Now, now.«

Om’Mas: »That’s dirty right there, that’s dirty.«

RBMA: »That tune is the theme song for a radio program in Los Angeles, that’s correct?«

Taz: »Right, right.«

RBMA: »Called…?«

Taz: »Spaceways.«

RBMA: »Spaceways, and that show is hosted by a gentleman named Carlos Niño, that’s correct?«

Taz: »Carlos Niño’s, a good friend of ours, right.«

RBMA: »If you’re familiar with his work at all, or the group that he produces, Build An Ark, they’re sort of a spiritual jazz type of outfit, with how many members in the band approximately?«

Taz & Om’Mas: »(in unison) 17, about 17.

RBMA: »A real throwback to the sort of Strata East, Black Jazz.«

Taz: »Right.«

RBMA: »[The] sort of sound if you’re familiar with any of those labels when you’re out digging for records.«

Om’Mas: »Lester Bowie.«

RBMA: »Art Ensemble Of Chicago, that type of stuff.«

Taz: »Doug Carn.«

RBMA: »Right. So now, going back to what you were saying, what did you object to when you first heard this, what offended your sensibilities?«

Om’Mas: »There wasn’t an objection but some days you’re on, some days you’re off. Some days you’re thinking some ways musically, and the next day you take a – whatever you do and your mind opens up.«

Taz: »(deep bass laughing)«

Om’Mas: »And you hear it different.«

Om’Mas: »The objection has kind of a negative connotation, like I said, I was more like the RCA Victor dog (turns his head to one side mimicking), like looking at the track like ‘hmmm’, you know?«

Taz: »(laughs)«

Om’Mas: »So it was not necessarily an objection, I was just like: "Hmm, that’s a little off, is that what Sa-Ra’s…?"«

Taz: »…it was just the creative process.«

Om’Mas: »Is this what Sa-Ra was trying to do that day.«

Taz: »Right, right.«

Om’Mas: »And that’s what we were trying to do.«

Taz: »It was just the creative process.«

RBMA: »I remember talking once years ago to Prince Paul…«

Taz: »…unorthodox person.«

RBMA: »Right, on his own very unorthodox, but he himself was very sort of taken aback when he worked in The Gravediggaz with RZA and how even more unconventional his style was, as far as producing, like not getting a loop to line up and…«

Om’Mas: »…I love the RZA...«

RBMA: »…and Prince Paul would be like: "This is wrong." But then it took him a minute to come around and…«

Om’Mas: »Really? I’ve never heard that story.«

RBMA: »…hear that things were actually… There was something special about what he was doing.«

Taz: »Had a beauty, right, right.«

Om’Mas: »It was ugly beauty.«

Taz: »Speaking of Build An Ark, would you like to hear a remix we just did for the Build An Ark album?«

RBMA: »Oh really?«

Om’Mas: »Equipoise.«

Taz: »Yeah, Equipoise.«

Om’Mas: »We just play a quick little…«

RBMA: »Yeah, play a little snippet of that.«

Om’Mas: »This is featuring Dwight Trible. (to Taz) You gonna tell ‘em who Dwight is.«

Taz: »He’s a local hero on Los Angeles and also a just a hero to the jazz world.«

Om’Mas: »The jazz community at large,«

Taz: »The jazz community at large. I’ll play you some of this real quick.«

Om’Mas: »Equipoise.«

(music: Build An Ark - Equipoise (Sa-Ra remix))

Taz: »(over the music) Original by Stanley Cowell, you might know this melody.«

(applause)

Taz: »We talk about digging for records, that original tune is written by Stanley Cowell and I think that was a…«

RBMA: »…a Max Roach album, or?«

Taz: »No, no, his own album.«

RBMA: »OK.«

Taz: »His own album and Tribe, Tribe Called Quest originally sampled that original, I forgot for which song, but Dwight went and wrote words to it and sang. Then we remixed what they did, so…«

Om’Mas: »Perfect example of a jazz song that is eventually gonna wind up on L.A. radio ‘cause when we turned the remix in, they liked it so much, and they weren’t expecting to be able to move to it, to kind of move to that. And the original, the beat ain’t pumping like that. So that’s just another thing that Sa-Ra was able to bring, in particular in remixes, we’re able to really re-interpret and rework the records and the task at hand. And that’s what a remix should be in its true essence, you should really be able to draw from the record but make something totally fresh.«

RBMA: »Yeah, and I think the original record recording, correct me if I’m wrong, but, is probably in an entirely different time signature.«

Om’Mas: »It’s a hell of a lot slower.«

Taz: »It’s a lot slower.«

Om’Mas: »Slow remixes, real quick, slow remixes. The funny thing about slow remixes, what you gotta do is make the beat double time and then you’re moving.«

Taz: »You got all kind of space in between to work with.«

Om’Mas: »Play with space and time.«

RBMA: »You guys mentioned, or at least Taz, you mentioned yesterday about having a foot in more the world of mainstream artists, doing remixes for people like N.E.R.D and who have you. And also sort of appealing to the underground, for lack of a better term, ‘backpack' type of audience (laughing).«

Om’Mas: »We don’t use that term.«

RBMA: »Or let’s say the underground audience.«

Om’Mas: »Yeah, that’s a negative connotation.«

RBMA: »Talk a little bit about that and the importance of maintaining respect in both worlds.«

Om’Mas: »Ear to the street.«

Taz: »Yeah, ear to the street. With the overground and the more commercial, that’s how you gonna get your acclaim and you gonna pay your bills. But also on the flipside, you have the underground where a lot of new things are constantly spawning: new sounds, new ideas and things of that nature. So you know we’re always paying attention to what’s new to constantly. Like re-invent ourselves and upgrade and keep our ear to the street. It’s very, very important, not only as a producer but as an executive. ‘Cause we are executives as well as artists and producers, so we’re constantly looking for new talent but you know to contribute something to the underground when we draw so heavily from it, is just a natural thing for us.«

RBMA: »Speaking of the dynamic within your group of wearing different hats, being producers as well as the artists. I wonder with three of you, I mean, I’m sure all the people in this room either work on their own or in collaboration with other people, what sort of process is that like for you guys? The two of you are very confident individuals about what you want to do, is there any sort of friction at any point?«

Om’Mas: »Partnerships.«

RBMA: »And has that helped or hurt?«

Om’Mas: »Partnerships can be very magical and in this case, it’s a very magical thing. When you bring people together that are very talented in their own right as individuals and are taskmasters in very specific areas as well, but just have a general understanding of all facets of the music, which is the case with Sa-Ra. We’re able to operate on a level that kind of supersedes the majority of producers back in the States through our ability to multitask. And that’s why there’s little conflict, because we’re able to operate in our own space and time and in addition, come together when it’s really time to get in the studio and grind. Taz might be off in Nice or the South of France at a conference in MIDEM and I’m in New York, in the studio with Heavy D and Puff Daddy or whatever and Shafiq’s back at the lab, bangin’ out beats and then reverse. So, I think that’s why we’re really to avoid the conflict is because the multitasking enables us to maximise our time and the main goal is to generate, to generate music and to generate cash. If somebody’s not doin’ something - there’s always got to be somebody tackling one specific area.«

Taz: »There’s always something to do.«

RBMA: »What was the turning point for each of you to say: “I’m not going to go on my own any longer because I’ve had it with whatever, and I want to be able to take advantage of this sort of situation where I’m in collaboration, and I can not bear the weight of everything.”?«

Taz: »I’ve always seen that. You can’t run a company by yourself, it’s virtually impossible. If you have strong individuals who know their self worth and are very talented, you can’t bring them in as a worker if it’s an upstart company, you can’t do it if you don’t have the money to pay them - a lot of the time you have to make them an equal but you definitely don’t want to bring in someone as an equal if they’re not worthy.«

Om’Mas: »If they’re not an equal.«

Taz: »So I think we’ve all been through that, this is not the first company I’ve been a part of, or Om’Mas or Shafiq so you learn from previous partnerships, previous business ventures and you learn how to choose the people that you work with more wisely, you’re more careful about that. But I’ve always envisioned myself being an individual within a collective. I have no problem with that, I think we all understand that we shine, there’s a light on us no matter who you’re with or who you’re around. And in this case, how we view doing music and the vision we have in mind to present, it definitely takes more than one or two people.«

RBMA: »There was no one incident or event that [was] the straw that broke the camel’s back.«

Om’Mas: »I tell you one for me! I did a brief stint as an art director in an advertising firm, I wasn’t doing music for a couple of months, didn’t touch anything; I was so fed up with the industry. I looked at my company that I worked for and I saw that there was a board of managing partners who equally shared in the profits and the revenue and the creativity and I said: "Well, if these guys are" – and they’re all multi millionaires sitting up in big penthouses in Manhattan - I thought, 'Well, there’s a strategy here; there’s obviously something here - with partnering up with people, appreciating their talent and accommodating them, paying them basically for that'. So I just looked at this company, I said: "Wow man, this is a partnership that’s successful." Shafiq gave me a call like: "Look bro, me and Taz is going down, are you in?" And, y’know, that was it.«

Taz: »Yeah, he was like: "Is it really - are you guys bs’ing’(bullshitting)?" 'Cause he was living - he had a career in New York at this advertising firm - so we were like trying to bait him to come… Y’know, like: "Yeah, come out man, we’re gonna do it." He came out and it was great.«

RBMA: »I was just curious because I’m sure everybody in this room is dealing with that struggle every day, as far as being able to make a living off what they enjoy doing as opposed to finding the time to do it and having to make ends meet doing other things.«

Taz: »Right, right«

Om’Mas: »It’s hard!«

RBMA: »In addition to making the choice whether to do their own thing, release their records on their own or collaborate with other people and forming their own companies. I also want to just go back and talk a little bit about self promotion. We’ve seen a lot of people come out in recent times like Pharrell or Kanye (West) who’ve been unabashedly self promoting: where do you draw the line between arrogance versus confidence?«

Taz: »I think in this day and age being a visual time, there’s so much going on where you have to demand or command attention; there’s so many advertisements, so many colours everywhere you look, everybody wants your attention. I’m not against self promotion.«

Om’Mas: »All for that.«

Taz: »Shamelessly promote what you do and you have to tell people who you are and who you want them to see you as.«

Om’Mas: »(interrupting) You have to create your own reality?«

Taz: »You can’t leave it up to choice. You can’t be a creative person and put your stuff out there and say: "Well, whatever you think is cool" No! You have to say: "This is me, this is what I represent, this is my vision, this is my plan, do you want to get involved? If you don’t, fuck" - I mean - "Forget about, don’t worry about it." (audience laughing) You’re gonna see me at the top.«

RBMA: »It’s OK, it’s not a family program.«

Taz: »(continuing) When I make it; you have to have that attitude because if you don’t believe in what you do, then how can you expect someone else to really believe in you.«

Om’Mas: »Where it borders on arrogance.«

Taz: »(interrupting) Yeah, it’s an art, how you manipulate the illusion.«

Om’Mas: »The arrogance is how you treat the people around you. You gotta be fly and you gotta maintain your posture and your status but where it becomes arrogance and where it becomes not nice behaviour is when you treat the people around you as if they’re beneath you and I personally do not condone anything…«

Taz: »No, no, not at all.«

RBMA: »You were even saying to me yesterday because of your background that you had to get to a point where you felt confident enough to put yourself in that arena.«

Taz: »I’ve always had the confidence but I dealt with a spiritual discipline for many years and it’s about being humble and not having all the shine on you and giving the praise to something outside of yourself.«

RBMA: »Based on your faith?«

Taz: »Right, based on your faith. It was necessary for me at that time and it’s helped me to become the person that I am today, to be free, to be confident, to know that this is an illusion. Y’know, you have to create the dream and you have to master the illusion. But you know, once upon a time, I had everybody around me just praising me but I never just owned it. I never owned the praise or really did anything with it, it was always, like: "Oh yeah, you think I’m dope, yeah that’s cool, yeah, I get to it one day." (changes voice) "No, you should rap, you should do this, you should be up front, you’re a natural leader." "Oh, cool. Yeah, well, ok, thanks man." And at some point you have to say: "Fuck it, maybe this is true." You have to have enough love and respect for yourself first, you have to be the center of your own universe and then everything around you will take form. I’m not mad at a person like Kanye, he might not have - maybe - mastered the whole art of manipulation; he pleased the people around him and then pleased himself, and then put this thing out there where he’s larger than life. It comes in time; maybe he hadn’t had time to develop that before he was in front of the camera. We personally know Kanye, he’s trying to sign our group to his label right now and he’s a cool guy. Pharrell, he’s very charismatic, confident, you know?«

Om’Mas: »Multi-talented.«

Taz: »I think he comes across well.«

RBMA: »Is that the way you’re dealing with the attention you’re getting now? 'Cause you know how hype works, and the business, and we’re here talking about a lot of aesthetic issues these two weeks - but the reality is, there’s a lot of other things going on in order to reach a comfortable place in the industry and the hype game is one of those things, and right now you guys are going through some of that.«

Om’Mas: »If you don’t hype yourself, then you gotta hire somebody to do it for you. Either which way, it’s got to be done, that work’s got to be put in because how do you expect to attain success? Otherwise you’ll be like a famous artist and your music won’t be accepted. And then you’re dead.«

Taz: »But at the same time, there has to be like… You know, we sat and crafted what you’re hearing now for years before we let anyone hear it. Because you want to definitely have more bite than bark. The hype is cool, but at the end of the day, it’s all about the music. So when you hit play, if the shit isn’t dope, if it isn’t fresh, then the hype is nothing.«

Om’Mas: »It’s unsubstantiated.«

Taz: »You will never reach that height of where you want to get it, unless you’re like some Don King or you’re dealin’ with some other type of situation but for us, we really are in love with music and with creativity.«

Om’Mas: »(interrupting) First and foremost.«

Taz: »In most cases, you know, the hype thing is something that happens all the time so we meet people and they say: "Yeah, I heard of Sa Ra, yeah, people are talking about you guys." When we have an intimate setting like this where we play the range of what we do and they’re like: "Damn, you guys are actually really good, you’re better than what I thought." And that makes me feel good when I hear that. I’m like: "Yeah cool." Of course, you gonna dig what you do but at the same time, if other people dig it, it’s really for the people, you put music out for the people so they have to dig it as well. It’s workin’ out pretty cool for us, y’know, it’s alright.«

RBMA: »You guys have done some performances here and there, I’ve heard about your stage show there’s a flamboyance involved, you obviously have your own personal style.«

Taz: »Yeah, definitely.«

RBMA: »In how you present yourselves.«

Om’Mas: »Image and lifestyle«

RBMA: »The word burlesque has been thrown around.«

Taz: »You might see me on stage butt-naked.«

Om’Mas: »And flinged by two go-go dancers.«

Taz: »It’s really like the stage is a dream world; you have to bring that dream to the people. They hear it with the music but the stage is where it all becomes visual, it’s all about what it looks like. We have put some time into it but we’re definitely putting a lot more energy into where and what our stage show’s gonna look like.«

(intermittent beeping)

Om’Mas: »Whose phone’s that?«

Taz: »That’s my cellphone.«

Om’Mas: »Oh!«

RBMA: »(laughing) So we might see you on stage like Gary Shider from P-Funk in the diaper with the guitar?«

Taz: »You won’t see us like Parliament, you might see us maybe inspired, by that and other things that we dig, to create something new.«

Om’Mas: »The stage is what it is. It’s a platform to express your creativity visually as well as for people to hear the music so… You got to really convey your message if you want to invoke a certain sense of personal style or you want to invoke imagery, you need to incorporate that and get it all into your act and all together and put your show together as a show.«

Participant: »Back to the collaborative thing ‘cause that’s probably one of the biggest things for us here at the Academy. A lot of us are producers who maybe are used to working on our own and now we’re going into studios where three, four people are making music. So I’m just interested in the way you guys approach it because you’ve obviously got it on lockdown. How does it work? Let’s say you’ve got an idea, do all three of you follow that idea, all three of you are cutting up a sample or programming a beat or are you jamming in different parts of the studio?«

Taz & Om’Mas: »(in unison) Yes!«

Om’Mas: »Shafiq might be rapping, Taz might hit the Wurlitzer and I just hit the drums. We might not use the drum track, but...«

Taz: »That’s a vibe!«

Om’Mas: »It’s a vibe and I maybe see where you going where there’s a lot of room for conflict or head butting when four people get into a room. But if everyone’s got in mind the benefit of the whole; and I think therein lies the problem sometimes in the studio; when there is a problem, if everyone’s got the common denominator in mind, making the best record possible, and you have patience and time enough to not speak so swiftly, think about what you say, have a listen to what’s going around before you make your judgment. I think that’s how you overcome any and all problems in the studio and in life. You take that strategy: you always going to have to work with people. You go it alone, I feel sorry for you, because it’s going to be a hard road. Always incorporate people into your fold, I think we just bring that sensitivity and understanding that it’s all about the whole, it’s all about Sa-Ra Creative Partners progressing and through that we’re able to sometimes sit back, Taz’ll take the helm on a song, sometimes I’ll take the helm on a song and your personality.«

Taz: »At the end of the day, it’s our product.«

Om’Mas: »It’s ours… But if somebody’s got a positive idea, you got to run with it, y’know? If I come with some shit, you got to jump on it. If it’s fresh, it’s undeniable. In that sense if any of us start something that’s incredible, we’re all just like (motioning together with hands) away.«

Taz: »It’s never a problem.«

Taz: »It’s like: "Woah, that’s dope."«

Om’Mas: »Right.«

Taz: »When did you do that?

Participant: »And as far as collaborating in separate parts of the world goes, I think we started to touch on it a bit… Could you do that or do you do that in separate stages.«

Om’Mas: »When we are abroad, working, producing, we’re always together. On the executive side and business side, that’s more so when we’re apart. Those are usually the only circumstances when we’re not together. Producing… We need to be together for that.«

Participant: »But there’s no technical way of doing it in this day and age with laptops?«

Taz: »There’s been times where we’ve had to mix a song, he’s been in New York… You could describe that process where you go into the computer and...«

Om’Mas: »Uh, yep. FTP, file transfer protocol is here, we all have high-speed internet connections. That has enabled the world to exchange data at an alarming rate and totally ruled out the need for mail, almost.«

Taz: »We’ve recorded vocals… It was a situation where Shafiq and I were in L.A., he went to New York to visit family but we had to mix a song, we had to finish vocals. So we recorded the vocals, he ftp’ed it two minutes later.«

Om’Mas: »I pulled it off the server, one AIFF file.«

Taz: »He added vocals, put it back on the server, we did something else, he took it again, mixed it and it was done. Without that technology, there would have been no way we could have done that because that was finished within two hours time. L.A. and New York, you know?«

Om’Mas: »Normally, that would have involved six Fed-Ex’s! So through technology you’re really able to simplify and streamline the flow of traffic and the flow of work.«

Participant: »What type of equipment do you guys use and how much does sampling come into play?«

Taz: »I think sampling plays a very big part in what we do. Most of our beats that you hear are sampled drums. We use an MPC 3000, SP 1200, ProTools, whatever we need… You know what? If you could reach in that jacket and grab that phone, I’ll be able to turn it off.«

(someone hands jacket to Taz)

Taz: »Thank you. Excuse me. We use all types of vintage synthesizers, Arp String Ensemble, Rhodes.«

Om’Mas: »Vintage gear plays a very important part in our sound. I was talking to somebody last night about the scope of the gear that we have from Juno's to (Roland) SH-101's, Rhodes, Wurlitzer, drums, full percussion array… But in addition to all the vintage synths, there’s this whole new world of RTAS and TDM plug ins, FM synthesis, all based in the computer realm. If you’re very tactful and knowledgeable of how these devices work in the real world, you’d be surprised how you make a Native plug-in fool the most staunch aficionado of vintage gear. So we use the whole gamut of equipment, right from the vintage shit to the Native plug-in's.«

Taz: »Even though we sample drums, we still play live over the samples. We have a whole array of percussion, we have wind, reeds horns, guitar, bass, y’know, the full plethora of sounds. Sounds are like colors: when you goin’ to paint a picture, you need that palette of options to pick up anything… harmonica, conga, you know, whatever.«

Om’Mas: »A very dope technique, you may or may not know, for making your drums sound iller than your opponent, so to speak, is to just lay the kick and go in and get you a hi-hat, and mic it right and just sit there and put that on top. Come with the snare and loop it down, you’ll be surprised how people will think that it’s a live kit. That’s just one of the techniques that Sa-Ra might use.«

Taz: »(interrupting) That’s an older technique because it’s a debate between Sly Stone and Shuggie Otis«

Taz & Om’Mas: »(in unison) Who was the first?«

Taz: »To use a drummachine on a record. Both the records came out I think, maybe eight months apart but who’s to say who recorded their album first. I think that uhh...«

Om’Mas: »(interrupting) Talkin’ about the Funk Box.«

Taz: »The Funk Box, right.«

Om’Mas: »Or the Rhythm King.«

Taz: »Yeah, the Rhythm King, a lot of people be - we use it now, we been using it but I think Sly used it on There’s A Riot Goin' On, that was the first record he used on and I forget.«

Om’Mas: »(interrupting) ‘Cause he was sick of the drummer!«

Taz: »Yeah, it’s been an ongoing revolution in regards to rhythm and sound.«

Om’Mas: »We have an example of that Rhythm King on that (singing in a whisper) Conversation Switcher.«

Taz: »Oh, yeah.«

Om’Mas: »We could play the Sly, that’s a classic.«

Taz: »Didn’t we just play that?«

Om’Mas: »No! That’s Just Like A Baby. Play the Al Green joint, Funk Box.«

Taz: »Right, right, right, let me see if I can find that.«

(Taz turns to computer and starts searching)

Om’Mas: »This is an example of the Rhythm King sound.«

Taz: »(to Om’Mas) You remember what that track’s called?«

Om’Mas: »Yeah it’s called Al G-R-E-E-N.«

RBMA: »I thought we heard that little percussion machine on… wasn’t it on the remix that you did for?«

Taz: »Yeah, actually it was but it...«

Om’Mas: »It wasn’t as prominent.«

RBMA: »It was deep in the background.«

Om’Mas: »Just like how Sly had it.«

(music Sa-Ra version of Al Green - Simply Beautiful)

Om’Mas: »(over the music) Four on the floor! Pulse…«

Om’Mas: »So, that’s just an example of the Rhythm King sound just one of the many facets, or the textures with sampling drums. Those drums came from the real Rhythm King, we went and got one but instead of using it how they used it, we re-adapted it, took the sounds and put ‘em in the MP(C 3000) and we played ‘em over. So we got a rhythm that the pre-programmed box would never have been able to make.«

Participant: »With regards to the programming of the drums, the moving the hats around, playing them organically, do you also keep the kick and snare in the same spot or is it moving? Or is a lot of that swing coming from…«

Om’Mas: »If you like.«

Participant: »You got any trademarks that you’ve done with that sound ‘cause it always sounds so warm and it sounds like it’s moving but it’s not, it’s beautiful.«

Om’Mas: »Sometimes we’ll just hit the record button in ProTools and the click is going in time; we’ve got a time reference already, and the kick is where it is; you’ve got four bars, you copy and paste it down so sometimes the kicks get sequenced, sometimes they just go in real time and that’s maybe where the organic.. We really take a lot of time when it comes to programming beats, it may not sound like it. People may think like...«

Taz: »We just do whatever...«

Om’Mas: »Our label mate said: “These guys must be watching television when they’re making beats.” So that kind of approach is like… What is that really saying? It’s saying that it’s an unorthodox style. Try to pull from unorthodox styles, try to pull from uncommon techniques always in making your records otherwise your records are going to sound like everybody else's.«

Taz: »You listen to like Fela Kuti or Indian musicians, there’s all types of rhythms, freaky...«

Om’Mas: »(interrupting) Permutations.«

Taz: »Freaky things out there that you can draw from to always come up with something new... I would suggest that the more extensive your musical library is, the more bullets you have in your gun.«

Om’Mas: »It’s your repertoire.«

Taz: »Each recording is just a blueprint, a masterpiece within itself, whether you like it or not, what someone is offering. You can always go back to that and study it. You might not like the drums but you might like the way that they miked the piano and the way they played. Each recording is really like a treasure and that’s how we look at it and that’s how our sound will always be moving and morphing because of the way we view music. We can always just go in any pocket and do a quick study and say let’s change the shape, let’s change the whole shit up.«

Om’Mas: »Mmm, huh.«

Taz: »Let’s flip everything and that’s what we have, that’s the card we have in our back pocket. Once we run with this sound, we have so many different things we want to do, Sa-Ra with strings or this or that… It goes on and on and on.«

Om’Mas: »Sa-Ra with strings…«

Taz: »And then you have this whole thing of Jungle and you have electronic music and some of these people are very ingenious, they are creating new forms of music. Some of the stuff might be just ok but you always have stuff that might be really, really fresh and new. So not only with old music, being that way, but you also have a lot of current things as well to pull from. I mean, you guys had Leroy Burgess here and he’s one of my favourites, y’know, we all dig him. That guy right there, you might see him here and not really understand how that sound translates into what we do but on a very subconscious level, we’re drawing from his energy.«

Om’Mas: »Among others.«

Taz: »Yeah, definitely amongst others. But I know that he was here so I’m kinda like upset that I missed that cat cause I haven’t had the chance to meet him yet, that’s somebody that we definitely want to work with and do some things with. Like I said, the more you can inform yourself on a musical level, the better off you’ll be.«

Om’Mas: »You don’t think it’s gonna work? Do it! ’Cause you know, trial and error, if someone inside you says “maybe it’s not right”, just do it anyway ‘cause especially if you’re recording digitally…. The data’s there! You can take a snippet of that, that might wind up as the basis for a whole other song. Like Frank Zappa, he would take guitar solos - And this is in the day of tape right… He would take guitar solos, and then there would be a record already done, he would remove the majority of the music and they would slice a little section out of the tape and re-position that on a totally different song, totally different time reference. I mean that just goes to show how experimental you can really be and we’re talking about one of the most legendary musicians, or one of the most popular musicians of the 20th century so it’s like there are no rules, be as unorthodox as you want to be.«

Taz: »(interrupting) I’m gonna play Love Today.«

Om’Mas: »Oh yeah, OK.«

Taz: »This is a song called Love Today, it’s more of a live track but he spoke of Frank Zappa and there’s aspects of this song that definitely remind me of Frank Zappa, Steely Dan, Parliament, so I’ll play it.«

Om’Mas: »When you hear Sa-Ra records, you know that it’s always us singing and it’s always us playing so that’s what we bring to the table.«

(music: Sa-Ra - Love Today / applause)

»Chord changes, chord changes, don’t be afraid of changes. Explore the musician in yourself don’t be afraid to break out the 1/4 interval, 2/5 - Don’t be afraid to break out the box and use whole tones and draw from Thelonious Monk, listen to what Moby’s doing, whoever just…«

Participant: »You’re saying terms that are foreign to me ‘cause I’m not a musician, I just know certain music that I love. So for someone who wants to get into producing and may have a good ear but is not musically inclined, what kind of advice can you give them?«

Om’Mas: »You mean in the traditional sense musically inclined?«

Participant: »Right, ‘cause those terms you just said, you know for me…«

Om’Mas: »Do you play?«

Participant: »No.«

Om’Mas: »You don’t have to, the biggest producers in the jazz world were not musicians and producing can encompass... In 2004, producing is totally different to what it was in 1950. But that doesn’t mean it doesn’t encompass those same values and goals which means you don’t have to be a musician; if you have a good ear and you know how to bring people together for a common goal, this is what producing is, making something from nothing. In Hollywood, producing is making phone calls and bringing stuff together.«

Taz: »You’re bringin’ forth a product to produce.«

Om’Mas: »So in the technical sense that’s what it’s all about.«

Taz: »You look at like Quincy Jones on Thriller, Quincy Jones wasn’t playin’ those instruments on that record.«

Om’Mas: »He wasn’t playin’ a damn thing.«

Taz: »But he produced the shit out of that record though.«

Om’Mas: »63 Million copies.«

Taz: »We spoke about a guy, our friend Carlos Niños, he’s I guess you could say, (turning to Om’Mas) the conductor?«

Om’Mas: »The producer.«

Taz: »The producer, he produces the Build An Ark records, he doesn’t sing, he doesn’t play any instruments and he doesn’t do the beats on the album, he sits there and tells people what to do, play this part, he makes the magic happen. So if you have the ear, you can definitely still produce.«

Om’Mas: »It all starts with your ear, before there’s any ability to produce, or touch a button on a ProTools rig there’s your ear, and this is what we’ve all cultivated; we’ve had these affinities, whatever it was that made you click, said: “Wow, music’s what I really dig, music’s what really makes me motivated.” That’s where it all starts.«

Participant: »Thank you.«

Om’Mas: »You’re welcome.«

RBMA: »Anybody Else?«

Participant: »Yeah, this is just a quick question about the performance: you said that you play the instruments, I know that you’re playing the instruments and you’re singing on your tracks but in live performance are you hiring a band, or are you singing and playing at the same time? Or is it some processing, and some live?«

Taz: »It’s actually a combination of all three scenarios that you just came up with. Some shows, we do it like CD style, like backing track. Our main objective when we’re performing is to sing, right now at this stage of our performance is for us to be upfront singing because people don’t know us as entertainers or singers, they know us as producers. Right now it’s for us to be on stage, look as good as possible and get our songs across. Then the next phase... We also, we do hire musicians.«

Om’Mas: »(interrupting) The last show...«

Taz: »The next phase is us playing, going back and forth, playing as well as performing and singing. That’s what’s happening with us so… It’s a good question.«

RBMA: »You also mentioned when you produce it’s your track, you’re singing on it as with like the Pharoahe [Monch] track. Do you ever encounter a situation where it’s like: That’s the thing that you want to do and that’s the position that you’re used to filling in that song where you come up with any sort of resistance? I just want the beat or I only want this part or feel, has anything like that ever happened?«

Taz: »That’s a very good question. There’s maybe been one time where we’ve had to put ourselves on the track because for this one scenario we wanted to definitely be on it but usually we didn’t want to be on any of the tracks we were producing. I mean what ended up happening was, y’know, our sound being kind of left and different, there was a situation where we would shop beats and they were like: “I like these beats they’re really creative but I don’t know what to do to the track.” Like: “Where’s room for the vocals, there’s all this music goin’ on?” So what we started doing, we started putting our songs on our beat CDs that we were circulating, the Sa Ra stuff, so we would start with these songs; they wantin’ to hear our beats but we would force them to hear our songs ‘cause it’s on the CD, so people started wanting our songs. (voice) Can you give me some of that shit you guys do on your stuff you give it to me, can you be on a song. And then you have certain songs, like you heard ‘Glorious’ earlier, Pharoahe just asked us point blank he said ‘I want to record 'Glorious', you guys can stay on the hook and do a verse but I want to do the first two verses.’ That’s going to appear on his next album on Shady records and same thing with Killer Mike from the Outkast camp, he heard one of our songs and he asked: “Can I get that?” And Bilal, same thing happened with Bilal.«

Om’Mas: »He literally just wanted our whole song.«

Taz: »It’s just on and on and on so now we’re producing Common. Everybody wants us to be on the song; ‘cause a beat is one thing, but the Sa-Ra sound, it encompasses us as artists. So if you want the sound, the complete sound, you have to then want us to be on it.«

Om’Mas: »We sing on almost every song that we produce commercially, it just so happens we’re on these songs…«

Taz: »The same with Jill Scott for one of the records we did with her. If we heard like an extra part of the freaky stuff that they don’t necessarily hear, we sing it to them and they say ‘Yeah, that’s great, put that down’.«

Om’Mas: »We beg ‘em, like: "Please, can you do it?" And they’re like: "No, y’all do it."«

Taz: »They’re like: "No, you sound.. You do it."«

RBMA: »Anybody else? OK, I want to say thank you guys for being here, Om’Mas and Taz.«

Taz: »Pleasure, pleasure, pleasure’s all ours.«

(applause)