Session Transcript:
Cosmo
Red Bull Music Academy, Cape Town 2003

The video stream for this lecture can be watched here.

DJ Cosmo (a.k.a Colleen Murphy) has always been deep into music. First stepping up to the platters at age 14, she then began working at a record store in Boston, immersing herself in everything from hip hop to funk and psychedelic rock. It was music, too, that decided her pick of college: N.Y.U had a radio station. Pretty soon Cosmo’s voice and sounds were woven into the sonic fabric of the Big Apple, and she stepped up to become programming director of the station. After visiting David Mancuso's parties at The Loft in 1991, she invited David to play on her radio show. That’s the pre-history. Next, as the legendary DJ (who was older than her father) became a friend and musical mentor to Cosmo, she began spinning at The Loft and alongside many of the city’s most revered figures such as Francois K., Lil Louis and Danny Krivit. By day Cosmo manned (sic!) the original Dancetracks record store with Joe Clausell. Next, a twist of fate led Cosmo to London; shortly thereafter her international gig schedule went ballistic, and she didn’t stop at syndicated worldwide radio shows either. With friend Nikki Lucas she established the label Bitches Brew a few years back, and has been on the up&up ever since, founding a publishing company, and releasing her own Ch’I productions as well as a host of other diverse music. At the Academy in Cape Town she shared some of her wealth of knowledge (with helpful patch-ins from soundsystem pioneer Alex Rosner). Cosmo says:
»Your duty as a DJ is to learn about sound. You may not have to be an expert, but you should know how it works (…) So the first thing is to know your equipment well, to learn how to use it – whether it’s a microphone, a mixer or a turntable. You have to learn how not to abuse your equipment and how to get the best performance (…) So actually, the first thing is to listen. Second thing is to know your equipment. And the third point is: If there’s a sound engineer, then work with him.«

RBMA: »What were the smartest decisions in your life? What were the things you would have done differently? Let’s speak globally before we go into the details.«

Cosmo: »I’m one of these people who finds that even the mistakes you make are important. So I don’t think I would have done anything differently; even though I probably made some unwise choices at certain points. But how you really do learn is by making mistakes. And the bigger the mistakes, the bigger the lesson. I never really had a grand scheme of things or a big plan. It kind of developed organically and naturally, but also with a lot of hard work. It didn’t just come out of nowhere. But I feel if you work hard enough, if you are dedicated and disciplined, then luck seems to happen.«

RBMA: »Cosmo, as a lady you represent a tiny minority in the music business. Why do you think that DJing is such a male-dominated profession?«

Cosmo: »I think it’s definitely changing. I grew up in the '70s and the early '80s. Coming from my generation, it was a different situation to girls growing up today. We didn’t have computers around, we didn’t have that kind of technology available to us. As girls, like myself, you learnt to play the piano, boys played electric guitar – things you can plug in. So there’s already that kind of technology thing, where boys don’t have a fear of it that much. So partly it’s conditioning. Another thing is record collecting. I started record collecting when I was 12. Most of the girls and boys didn’t collect like I did at that time. But record collecting is like having a slight form of autism because you become obsessed with a certain thing. And it is proven that males, more than females, have slight forms of autism. So it’s that trainspotter attitude as well as the technological conditioning. But it’s completely different today. Girls growing up today, they’re just surrounded by this technology all the time.«

RBMA: »When we observe what women and men are doing, you can definetely come to the conclusion that it can’t be a difference in skills. Whatever a woman tries to achieve, she can do it as good or better than a man, of course. But in the radio show we are running in Austria we had about 400 DJs last year. Now imagine how many out of these 400 were women?«

Cosmo: »Ten.«

RBMA: »No, a bit more. We had 30 female DJs. But there must be some sociological or psychological reason why more men are pushing into this direction, becoming a DJ or a music producer.«

Cosmo: »It’s also the lack of role models. When I was growing up, I can’t remember any female club DJs. There were a lot of female radio DJs though. That’s why I started on the radio myself. The other thing is that it’s very difficult if you want to have kids. To be traveling around is a lot easier for a guy. He can go away and come back. I’m not saying it can’t be done, it can, but it’s a fact that comes into play.«

RBMA: »Were there big male obstacles in your life?«

Cosmo: »Well, you know, for anyone starting to be a DJ or a music producer there’s always a lot of obstacles – whether they’re gender-based or not. For example, I have worked in record stores for years. People would call in and ask: "Can you put me on the phone with somebody that knows about music?" Obviously, this was a guy. Or a bouncer wouldn’t let me into the club. I was standing there with all my records and he was thinking I was trying to get in for free. He couldn’t believe DJ Cosmo was a girl. When I was doing my radio show, mixing live and engineering the whole show myself, announcing, answering the phones, people would call and say: "Tell the DJ he’s doing a great job." I mean, all these things. But you kind of educate the people as time goes on. You just have to let it go.«

RBMA: »How would you explain the difference between a radio and a club set to the DJs in this room?«

Cosmo: »It’s a huge difference. Radio is everywhere, which is the beauty of it, it’s much more democratic than a club. Clubs choose if you can come in or not. It’s also depending on economic factors if you can afford to go; all that kind of stuff. Or say you are unable to go to clubs for physical reasons, you can always turn the radio on. And that’s why I love it so much. For instance, some of my listeners are blind. So it would be difficult for them to go to a club. And probably it would be too loud for them. Some listeners are parents having children. They used to go out, but now they’re tied down a bit more. I had a lot of fans that are prisoners. That was interesting because the correction officers used to play my show. I had some people to call up, they just had one phone call a week, and they called me up! I got many letters. This was very intense. They were communicating a very positive message, and they were able to get it through the radio. One of the best requests I got was Bustin’ Loose by Chuck Brown & The Soul Searchers. That was a good one from Rikers [Island]. The one thing that is a little bit strange with radio is that you are sitting in the studio, all isolated. And besides from the telephone it’s really hard to feel your audience. That’s why I always like to have a telephone in the studio. And I would answer as much as I could. I wanted to have some kind of relationship with the audience. That’s the benefit of a club: you are really interacting with the audience. Because I feel as a DJ you’re not just a one-way sender, it’s definitely two-way.«

RBMA: »I think it’s also a big freedom that you can create more mood changes when you play on the radio. In a club, it’s more functional.«

Cosmo: »Yes, that’s true. It depends on how free you are as a DJ though as well. Because some DJs can take the club experience a lot further than others. But true, the idea of going to a club is to go out to dance.«

RBMA: »Your radio audience is probably not dancing in their living rooms.«

Cosmo: »Some of them do actually.«

RBMA: »But in general they will just be washing dishes or lying in their bathtubs. You never know what they are doing.«

Cosmo: »Yeah, sometimes you don’t, or you don’t want to know. Yes, you have a lot more freedom on the radio, musically. When playing at a club you get a kind of instantaneous response, which then fuels you to do something else. So you would maybe go to a place you wouldn’t have gone musically. I always love that. You will never know what is going to happen, which is wonderful. You get that on radio too. There’s a kind of intuition of what goes on with your listeners. It happened too many times: I had one record playing on turntable one, I had another on turntable two that I was going to play next. Then somebody would call and request exactly the record that I wanted to play. This happened to me a few times. Then you know that you’re on a certain plane with your listeners.«

RBMA: »You’ve been in those legendary clubs in New York. Today, young people are still reading or talking about these clubs. What was so legendary about them? Or are there still clubs which are just as good?«

Cosmo: »A club is not just about the DJ and a DJ set. It starts with the security as soon as you walk up to the club. When they put you in a bad mood right at the start, you’re not going to have a good time. Then it’s the sound, the acoustics of the room. The sound is so important. But unfortunately, in a lot of clubs today it’s secondary, sometimes even tertiary. It’s ridiculous. They care more about the bar than the actual soundsystem. Another thing is the lighting. So many times I’ve been playing in a club where someone comes up, puts the strobelight on and then walks off. It’s unbelievable to me. This is like not interacting with the music at all. In the best clubs in New York the lighting technicians work with the DJs. I love working with people like that. Here’s a breakdown, let’s do a blackout. They feel the music and understand what’s going on. They know how colors work. The staff is such a big part of it. How the bar staff treat people. But the main ingredient is the audience: the dancers, the people who are there. It’s as much about them as it’s about anybody else; not just about the DJ playing a great set. All these different things have to interact. This is very difficult to do. People really need to aspire to do that if they want to have more legendary clubs.«

RBMA: »What makes a label hot? How do you make your label hot?«

Cosmo: »Just like a club, this takes a lot of ingredients. First of all, you have to really think whether you want to go to another label or start your own. I decided to start my own because I always thought that you have to do things yourself if they are supposed to be the way you want to have them. I signed a few records to other people. But sometimes they get back to you after you’ve done the contracts and everything. Right before you’re about to sign they say: "No, we don’t want to do it now." They kind of jerked around, nothing terrible, nothing I can’t get over; but again another learning experience. I realised that I have to do it on my own. And I wanted to own my material. So I started my own record label and publishing company.

Now we will get into a lot of details about starting a label. Basically I want to give you an overview. The first thing is your identity. What makes you different? Why should people buy your records and not someone else’s? Before you even do anything you have to think about that. Our identity was not to have an identity in a certain funny way. I realised that a lot of labels have these signature sounds. And every record always sounded the same. We all loved them when they started, but after a year we got sick of it. That’s not a good recipe for longevity, obviously. And also my business partner and I, we are into a lot of different forms of dance music. Of course, house is represented quite a bit. But there’s also broken beat, afro, we’re doing some ragga stuff, we have some soulful stuff coming up in the future, electro as well. So it’s not the same record every time with a new packaging. Packaging is important as well. That’s one of the reasons I brought that stuff with me (points at the records displayed behind her), not just to promote myself. Coming up with a logo, again it’s about getting the identity across. Nikki and I, we wanted to have a good template. Different colors, but basically you know it’s a Bitches Brew record right when you see it. But it doesn’t really tell you what kind of music it is, which is cool. I love Naked Music and I love their covers, but you kind of know what you will get. With our artwork, this is not the case. You have to be open-minded right from the start. But our records have the Bitches Brew imprint. I hope this stands for quality. So we had to think through all these things before we put out a record. Identity is really the most important thing. Same with a club night. Why should people go to your night and not to others? What makes it special? Are you doing what everybody else is doing or are you doing something different?«

RBMA: »The next thing is communication. What ways of communication can you use as a producer or as a label owner? How can you achieve that you are talked about?«

Cosmo: »Well, there’s a lot of tools. One, to have your website, obviously that’s a must. Two, you have to have a strategy of how you are going to market your records. Some of these tunes (points at the Bitches Brew 12”s placed behind her back) are very different. On the first one we had deep house and broken beat mixes, the second one is an afro thing. Some of the listeners will cross over, some will not. For instance, afrobeat people will play this and not the first one. You have to have your audience who your are marketing to. Your website and email address are necessary basics for communication. And then there is the press. You have to send out your press mailings. There are also a lot of websites that specialize in music. You have to go through these online magazines as well. But I’ve always felt that radio is the most important aspect of the whole business. That just exposes things to so many people all at once. It’s such a great tool. Plus the DJs announce what the record is – as opposed to a club. Sometimes the playlists are published online or archived. I always focus a lot on radio DJs, even on people that only have online radio shows. The biggest focus should be on the retail; most record companies seem to forget about this. That’s where the records are sold. Labels might have had a lot of press, but then they don’t know why they don’t sell any records. Well, the retail does not know about it. That’s probably the biggest job. Once you get the press mechanism into place, the main ingredient for having a successful label is to get in touch with the distributors and the retail.«

RBMA: »For most of the people who run small record labels, the record label and the productions are tools to promote their personality as a DJ. Then they make the big money with the DJing. Would you agree?«

Cosmo: »Yeah, I do agree. My DJing supports this label. It’s not supporting itself yet. I’m hoping one day it will. But then again it took me a while to support myself as a DJ. It took years of work being out there and doing it. Perseverance and talent got me to the point that I had enough to start a record company. Hopefully the label will be in the same position in another few years, the same goes for our publishing company. It takes time. Most of us will not get rich over night. For those of us who do, it’s wonderful. If you are an artist and you have a big record, you will probably be able to focus more on the creative aspects in some ways because you will have a manager, your PR people, your lawyer and all that. But for most of us it’s unlike that. So you need to know how to work all of it. There’s too many out there who want to do this. But why are there so few that stick to it? Because of all the work that it takes and how much you need to know about the entire business and how the whole puzzle fits together.«

RBMA: »What about your role as a producer? Did you co-produce all of the records on Bitches Brew?«

Cosmo: »No, no. A few of them have my involvement, some don’t though. My role as a producer? I don’t engineer my own stuff. Partly because it’s a whole other job. I’m doing so many things already. I felt that I really would have to sit and learn all that to do it well. So why not work with a pro? You can’t do everything, obviously. I decided to prioritize, so I work with engineers. I love producing, but once you start your own label you have less time for that. Plus the traveling and the DJing. It’s difficult for me to get into the studio. I’d like to this more as time goes on. Hopefully one of my records will be big and I can be a producer more than a DJ. Right now that’s not the case.«

Participant: »I don’t know of too many female label owners and I am wondering if you had any obstacles related to that. I’m asking because I find that distributors often are not very forward-thinking when working with women. Also I’d like to know if you had any mentors as far as the label went.«

Cosmo: »Basically, I haven’t had any obstacles with being a female. There are a few others in deep house. For instance, Jeannie Hopper who runs a label named Flipside. And she used to own a distribution company as well. But you are right, there aren’t many females who run labels – especially ones who are also producers and DJs. I think in some way, it’s still quite a novelty. So it might be a good opportunity at the moment. I mean, we’re using Bitches Brew as our label name. It’s kind of funny because we are the bitches. But we are in a boys environment. We are distributed by Goya, everybody else is a guy. That’s cool. There are people involved like 4Hero, Alex Attias, Bugz In The Attic, I.G. Culture and then there are Nikki and myself. I think the guys actually like it, to be honest. They have been really supportive. I never had any problems at all on the business side, as far as being a woman is concerned. I think it’s how you hold yourself, too. Some women use their sexuality. You see some DJs that dress up in bondage gear. Obviously, they are playing the fact that they are women. So they probably do get sexually harassed. I’m not saying they are asking for it, but they are using that as a tool. But if you don’t, if you’re just out there playing the game like guys do as far as it’s about the music, then it really hasn’t got as much to do with my gender. This way, you probably won’t have that many problems.«

RBMA: »Let’s speak of piracy. I think there are different ways of fighting it. One is the legal way, tracking people down and suing them. But the other way, from the producer’s side, is to create a product that is so unique that people want to have it with it’s artwork. They will be just unhappy when having only a lousy burnt CD.«

Cosmo: »Yes, that’s true. The whole packaging is quite important. That’s the thing I love about vinyl. It’s so much nicer, like all the old gatefold sleeves that open up. It seems so tangible, the big records as opposed to this plastic thing with a little booklet. Packaging can make collectors items, things that people are buying not just because of the actual recording.«

Participant: »What’s the average percentage that your artists get?«

Cosmo: »At Bitches Brew, our artists get 50% of our profits. So after everything is paid, we share 50/50 with the artists. In the States, it’s a bit different. It’s a lot less for the artists there. Usually, they pay anything in between eight and sixteen points – after everything is paid.«

Participant: »If you increased your marketing costs, would that decrease the artist’s share?«

Cosmo: »No, that would be taken as a cost to be recouped. It would not be taken from the net profit but from the gross income. In fact, the record company and the artist are paying for that.«

Participant: »When you are signing DJ contracts, do you assign a time limit like you will be playing for three hours maximum?«

Cosmo: »Usually the agents will put a time limit in the contract. But as a DJ, I always feel that’s negotiable when you get there. If you have a good time, then go for it and play longer.«

Participant: »When we did parties in Greece, we had DJs that would play longer, but only when they would get more money.«

Cosmo: »I don’t think you should ask for more money. Once a deal is done, the deal is done.«

Participant: »How many radio stations broadcast your show?«

Cosmo: »I used to have a syndicated radio show. That was on 200 college stations in the States. College radio is really powerful in the States. Nearly every university has a station. And then I had another show which was on 50 stations. Now I do just guest spots on different European radio stations.«

Alex Rosner: »I want to say a few things. I think it’s really refreshing to hear a "minority" DJ saying things that really need to be said, things that I never heard before from a DJ.«

Cosmo: »Thank you (laughs).«

Alex Rosner: »For instance, that it’s about the music, and yet it has to do with the audience as opposed to the ego. I think that’s very valuable and important to say. You are in a position to influence other DJs. And they should hear that loud and clear. The other thing I wanted to come down at is: someone asked a question about contracts. This reminded me of something that happened long ago. I was very reluctant to conclude a contract with a friend of mine who wanted my services. I asked an older fellow’s advice. He said to me: "A friendship was never ruined by a contract." I always remembered that. And I think that’s something all of you should bear in mind as well. It’s true: A friendship was never ruined by a contract. A contract is very useful device, even though it’s just a little piece of paper. It’s a record of someone having agreed to something. And a deal is a deal.«

Cosmo: »It also protects both parties. Everything is stated. It’s all clear, both parties have agreed to do so. As you said, it wouldn’t wreck a friendship. It’s an agreement between two people. All the points are put on paper. Then there’s really nothing to dispute.«

Participant: »How you’re feeling about that, you’re doing a set, you’re all into it, you know what I mean? Got your headphones on, and then this person comes in: "Yeah, this is a big tune. But can you play something more techy, or whatever?" Actually, every DJ knows about this.«

Cosmo: »There’s so many ways to deal with that. One is ask to sing it for you. And you go: "I can’t hear you." And just keep saying that until they have to sing it really loud and get embarrassed. Sometimes requests can be good. When you are, for instance, in The Loft with David Mancuso. His crowd is an educated crowd, they’re pretty much on the same page. So if there’s a good request, you should play it. I just love getting good requests. I always play them if I have the records. That’s just a joy. But as you said, there are some people who believe that they are the ones that should be DJing. But I don’t think that they would like it when you told them how to do their job, whatever they do. One way of dealing with it is keeping your headphones on. That’s what I just usually do. Probably it has nothing to do with music, it has just to do with the ego. They want to be centre of attention. And just not giving them the attention is usually the best way to defuse any kind of situation like that. If you say: "No, I don’t have it." Then some people will just keep on. It’s best to ignore them.«

Participant: »What are the three things that you do as a DJ in a packed club when the soundsystem breaks down?«

Cosmo: »That’s a good point. Alex Rosner will get into that more detailed later on. He is a sound expert. Number one: Your duty as a DJ is to learn about sound. You may not have to be an expert. But you should know how it works. Unfortunately, most DJs don’t seem to care. They are pushing up the gains, pushing up the master, putting the EQs all the way up. They are distorting the signal before it even gets to the amplifier. So the signal on the front end is already distorted. And then they are wondering why it sounds horrible. So the first thing is to know your equipment well, to learn how to use it, whether it’s a microphone, a mixer or a turntable. You have to learn how not to abuse your equipment and how to get the best performance. But most DJs don’t have a clue. Sometimes I can’t believe it when I come in. The gains are all the way up, the EQs way past twelve o’clock, they are just playing in the red. They are not listening. So actually the first thing is to listen. Second thing is to know your equipment. And the third point is: If there’s a sound engineer, then work with him. I think a lot of sound engineers and DJs have problems. It’s pretty interesting, in some of the bigger clubs where I play there’s a sound engineer present. So I always go up and introduce myself. Usually, they are quite shocked: "Ooh, she’s been nice to me, the DJs been nice to me." You are working together! So I tell them: "Listen, I am going to keep this volume here. I want to keep my signal on the front on a nice level; not distorted, just clear and pure. And as the room fills up, I obviously need more volume because the people are absorbing the sound. But you control that, I’ll let you do that." But you also might have problems where you are the DJ and the club management doesn’t care about the soundsystem. That’s a big problem happening quite a bit. So what do you do? Well, you try to do the best you can and get on with it. Unfortunately, this just makes you sound bad. Basically, I try not to work in those places anymore. And I make a point of letting them know why. You need to explain these things to the management and to the people that work there: "You’re open as a club, as a music venue, and you don’t care about the sound! But you care more about the wallpaper or whatever." I even left places because the sound was so bad. Because this makes me sound bad.«