Russell Elevado

Benji B

It seems a shame ever to fade out that song, but I’m going to have to because this is one I’ve been looking forward to ever since my plane touched down. Please him feel very welcome, Mr. Russ Elevado. [Applause]

Russell Elevado

Thank you, good to be here.

Benji B

How are you doing, Russ?

Russell Elevado

Pretty good. I just got in from San Francisco, so getting used to the time change. But great vibes over here, good to be here.

Benji B

Thanks very much for joining us today. For those who might not be familiar with what you do for a living, couldyou describe what that is?

Russell Elevado

Basically just have fun everyday, it’s not really work for me. I feel pretty lucky. People pay me to have fun and just experiment, I don’t really consider it work. But basically, I’m an engineer, producer, recording engineer.

Benji B

And generally speaking, what part of the recording process is that, what does it involve?

Russell Elevado

Basically, I’m the guy who sets up the microphones, makes sure we’ve got good levels. I still do stuff to tape so I make sure I get good levels to tape. And then I record the band. Hopefully it’s a live band, not just drum machines and stuff, which is kind of dying, but that’s mainly what I do: record live musicians.

Benji B

So do you want to give us some examples of the artists you’ve worked with over the years?

Russell Elevado

Alicia Keys, D’Angelo, The Roots, Common, Saul Williams. There’s a few I’m forgetting. Erykah Badu, people like that. Roy Hargrove for the jazz fans.

Benji B

And how do you first come into contact with these people? Is it word of mouth?

Russell Elevado

It’s been word of mouth my whole career, I’ve never solicited anybody. It’s pretty cool because if people come and seek me out it’s because they know me for a certain thing. It’s not like I’m going around saying, “I want to work with you, I want to work with you.” It’s people who come and find me because they know me for a certain sound. It’s the best way to work.

Benji B

And how would you describe the texture of the sound you’re looking for?

Russell Elevado

Probably vintage. All my roots in music has been ‘60s music, ‘70s, some ‘80s like Prince and Michael Jackson and stuff. But my roots are The Beatles, Jimi Hendrix, Curtis Mayfield, Marvin Gaye, Stevie Wonder. Classic soul music, classic rock.

Benji B

And how did you get into what you do? Was it the classic “making tea” scenario?

Russell Elevado

Yeah, started at the bottom for sure. Went to school in New York, in the Village, a place called Institute Of Audio Research, which is basically a technical school, a one-year program. But halfway through I started interning at a place called Shakedown Studios, which was owned by a producer called Arthur Baker. So I got the coffee, swept the floors, cleaned the bathrooms. This was before I even graduated from school. I was 19 when I started. I started assisting in different studios, all in New York, and made my way up the ranks, got lucky, being in the right place at the right time.

Benji B

So basically there’s no substitute for experience?

Russell Elevado

Not at all. My biggest break came when I mixed two songs on Roberta Flack’s last album. At that point I was doing the whole R&B circuit, making good money, but I wasn’t completely happy with the music. Up until Roberta Flack I was working a lot, but creatively speaking I wasn’t getting to the next step. Just after I did Roberta Flack I met D’Angelo, and he saved my career. I was disillusioned and was ready to stop, I wasn’t really having any fun. I was making money but on a creative level it just wasn’t working. Then his manager played me D’Angelo’s demos and I was like, “Wow! I have to work with this guy.”

Benji B

This was before Brown Sugar, right?

Russell Elevado

Yeah, before Brown Sugar.

Benji B

We know you were involved in the recording of Voodoo, which is an amazing piece of work, but you had some production and engineering credits on the first one, too.

Russell Elevado

Yeah, I took over where Bob Power left off. They had some creative disagreements and were looking for another person. I was working on Angie Stone’s album when she was in this group Vertical Hold and they had the same manager, who said, “Maybe you should work with D’Angelo.” He played me the songs and I said, “Yes, of course, I’ll work with this guy.” I ended up mixing three songs on the album.

Benji B

And obviously the relationship just blossomed. The results Voodoo, it’s clearly a very special working relationship.

Russell Elevado

We totally clicked from the very beginning. We were talking about Voodoo before we even finished Brown Sugar. When I came into it I had heard the song should be mixed in a different way — more raw, more edgy. But we couldn’t do it because seven songs were already mixed and we had to match the album. But he said, “I’m open to your ideas, tell me more.” And we both started playing each other music, our influences, and I said, “We should make your next album sound like this album. Look at Stevie’s album, the drums sound so raw.” And he was, “Yeah, we’ve gotta do it.” So we were talking about the Voodoo album from the beginning.

Benji B

I guess we should get straight in and talk about Voodoo for a while. I’m happy to go on record and say, from my personal perspective, if you told me to pick my top ten records, I don’t know what the other nine would be, but that would be in there. Obviously, the content is phenomenal, but it has a lot to do with the texture of the sound as well. There are a lot of stories surrounding that album, about how indulgent the recording process was and how long you were in the studio for, and the lead-up to the recording. If you had a goal for that record, sonically, what was it, and was it a shared goal?

Russell Elevado

Let me see, it may sound corny, but it was definitely my dream project, to really show people that it could be done today, that the records that sounded so amazing in the ‘70s, like Stevie Wonder, Marvin Gaye, James Brown, they could be done today with all the gear that’s out there, look at the Neumann U47s and everything. My thing was that people were sampling James Brown and Funkadelic, all those records, so why can’t we just use the same gear they used, use tape and come up with our own organic sound? It’s reminiscent of the ‘70s, but now we have this amazing bandwidth with all this technology. That was pretty much my concept: we can do this, but make it sound even fatter, because now we have automation and super-bandwidth with CD, so now the bass can be even more incredible and each mix can be tweaked out. If Eddie Kramer had this technology back in the day, I can’t even imagine how that stuff would’ve sounded. Now we’re spoiled, because we can automate every single thing and make it perfect.

Benji B

So am I right in thinking this whole album is live?

Russell Elevado

85% is live, yes.

Benji B

And all recorded to tape?

Russell Elevado

Every last bit is recorded to tape, yes. [Applause]

Benji B

Was it five years in the making?

Russell Elevado

It was three years altogether.

Benji B

Electric Lady Studios is expensive enough, 2” tape is pretty expensive.

Russell Elevado

Yeah, we ended up using 120 reels of tape, and we didn’t erase anything, so when we needed more space we would make a copy of one of the 24-track reels and store that reel. For some songs we had five reels and three of them would be vocal takes.

Benji B

I heard a story that before you started laying down tracks for that album, there were covers of Marvin albums and Prince albums. Is that true?

Russell Elevado

Yeah, and I think that’s why the spirit of that album is like that. Those jams spawned these songs, that was a part of the whole vibe of the album. They would go in there and jam on Stevie covers for three hours and then an idea would come out of that. Within an hour they would have something, so you would press the recording tape.

Benji B

And presumably those jams still exist on tape somewhere.

Russell Elevado

Yeah, there are probably 50 songs altogether. [Laughs] I can see the box set with all the alternate songs, the lost D’Angelo tapes.

Benji B

So working with tape, you didn’t use any digital audio?

Russell Elevado

No, there were three songs that had to go into ProTools, only because we had to edit it down because it was really long, or because there was a mistake and we wanted to preserve the live performance. We tried to redo the take with musicians and it didn’t have the same feel, so we had to go into ProTools. Even D’Angelo, I’ve pretty much brainwashed him into believing that ProTools isn’t the best. It’s great for editing, but I still think the sound suffers. It’s getting better, but for me, it doesn’t come close to tape.

Benji B

So is there ever a point when you go to ProTools or do you just avoid it all cost?

Russell Elevado

I avoid it as much as possible. I still do 85% of everything to tape and I mix to tape as well.

Benji B

On this record, there are so many layers. A track like “The Root,” there must be 30 different voices.

Russell Elevado

There are actually probably more like 40, or more. He would triple each note and do four parts and overlap with each other. When those parts are overlapping, that’s 16 tracks per part overlapping into another 16 tracks.

Benji B

But when you’re recording to tape you can’t move anything, so every time it’s recorded as live, which makes it even more phenomenal.

Russell Elevado

Yeah, every single thing is recorded live. No copying or pasting.

Benji B

Shall we check it out? I think this is probably the most relevant track, in terms of talking about the layering of the vocals. This is a track called “The Root.”

Russell Elevado

Yes, I think so.

Benji B

Sorry, my vinyl’s a bit mashed up. I’ve played this one a few times.

(music: D’Angelo - “The Root”)

Russell Elevado

Thank you.

Benji B

Unbelievable. [Laughs]

Russell Elevado

That’s a really great tune. His vocals are just angelic.

Benji B

The backwards guitar bit, was that you?

Russell Elevado

Yeah, I thought of that because they were jamming to Jimi Hendrix covers, because we were in Electric Lady [Studios]. So I thought, “Let’s reverse the guitar in that section.” Originally it was a straight guitar solo, then we just flipped the tape and played it backwards and it was like, “Yes, that’s it!”

Benji B

So each time layering those vocals, each time that’s D’Angelo coming up with a new harmony and you just punching it in.

Russell Elevado

Yes, every time, live.

Benji B

Talk to me about the personnel on that record.

Russell Elevado

Pino Palladino. D’Angelo was invited in to duet with BB King. We walked in the studio and Pino was playing the bass and we were waiting for BB to come in. They started jamming, he was on the piano and he started doing these Marvin Gaye covers. The whole band was made up of these veteran musicians who’d been in the business 25 years or whatever – D comes in, and he’s 20-something, and just blows everybody away. But he kept looking over at Pino and he came up to me afterwards and says, “Man, who’s the guy on the bass?” He was playing all this [Motown bassist] James Jamerson stuff, verbatim, too. So he walked up to him and introduced himself as Pino Palladino, and he was like, “Wow! I’ve seen his name all over the records and I’m finally meeting this guy.” Turns out he’s a huge D’Angelo fan. He came to the studio three months after that and that was it, we just fell in love with Pino.

Then there’s ?uestlove on the drums, kind of an associate producer for the album. He’s drummer for The Roots. Those two got together and those two together is like… I can’t think of an analogy, but they’re basically like brothers, they think the same, they can just look at each other and know when they should change. They really have this strong bond musically and spiritually, I think. Hopefully, they can patch things up and he can come back on the record. Right now they’re in a shaky territory.

The guitar player on that song is Charlie Hunter. He actually plays bass and guitar at the same time, which is unbelievable, but he plays this eight-string guitar — it’s five strings regular guitar, the top three play bass strings, and he’s got these pick-ups that separate it and he plays both at the same time. He’s a real freak of nature I think, it’s like he’s got two heads. He plays on “Spanish Joint.”

Benji B

Who plays the bass on “Spanish Joint?”

Russell Elevado

That’s Charlie.

Benji B

And where did that come out of?

Russell Elevado

He had played that song for me on the piano and he was saying he should get Charlie Hunter on it. Charlie’s last day, he was about to leave and D came up to me and said, “Is there anything I’m forgetting, is there a song we should do?” So I said, “How about ‘Spanish Joint’?” “‘Spanish Joint,’ oh shit!” We played it for Charlie and that’s the first take you hear, they got it within an hour or something. They put the arrangement together and that was it.

Benji B

We’ve got to hear that now.

(music: D’Angelo – “Spanish Joint”)

Crazy. So that’s Charlie playing bass and guitar at the same time?

Russell Elevado

Yeah, I watched him doing it and I still can’t believe it.

Benji B

Eight strings?

Russell Elevado

Yeah, three bass strings and five guitar strings on the one guitar.

Benji B

One take?

Russell Elevado

Yeah, that was the first take. We did two or three and we kept listening to the first one and were like, “Yeah, that’s the one.”

Benji B

Sonically, two of the sonic things that make this album special are the bass and the drums. Is there anything particular approach recording that you want to mention? When it comes to mic-ing, is there any particular approach?

Russell Elevado

For that, at least half is the drummer. If the drummer’s got a good sound, it makes my job much easier. My approach is getting a good amount of the whole frequency spectrum. With drums, it goes from 30Hz all the way up, as far as you can hear. Drums and the voice are probably the widest frequency spectrums. I’m trying to capture the whole sound, not just individual drums. I stay in the room with them, stand about five feet away, walk around and see what the whole thing is doing and place the mics accordingly. But I sort of have a similar set-up all the time — depending on the drummer and the room, I just move different room mics around. The overall drum sound, in the end, if I track and mix it, it’s a combination of the separate mics and then the overheads and the room sound. So I’m trying to capture that air I’m feeling in front of the kit.

Benji B

So how many mics on average do you use for the kit?

Russell Elevado

On average, probably eight. Two on the snares, two on the kicks and then a single mic on the toms. Usually use a single overhead as well. Many people do stereo overheads, but unless it’s a huge 20-piece kit I’ll just use a single microphone on the top.

Benji B

And what about the recording equipment? Can you talk to us about Electric Lady Studios and how significant that was in this record?

Russell Elevado

It’s funny because I’d go and visit D’Angelo in Richmond before we started the album to talk about it, how he visualised it, where we conceptualised it. At that time I turned him on to Jimi Hendrix. He’d only heard “Purple Haze” and “Fire,” so I played him Hendrix and he just freaked out, “Holy shit! All my heroes have been influenced by Hendrix and I never knew it all these years.” Because he’s a huge Prince fan and Prince was all about Hendrix, his whole stage persona is all Hendrix. So I played him some other albums that had been done at Electric Lady, like Stevie Wonder and Led Zeppelin albums, and said we should go there to record it. “What do you mean, it’s still around?” So we went to see the studio, walked into Studio A, and he said, “Yeah, let’s do the album here.”

Benji B

And presumably Virgin were supportive of that at that time.

Russell Elevado

At that time. They didn’t realise that a million-and-a-half [dollars] later we’d still be working on the album [laughs]. We weren’t finished at a million-and-a-half.

Benji B

And when it comes to mixing a record like this, what’s the start point? Do you do the classic of putting everything up to zero and get a feel for it, or have you already start mixing it as you’re recording it, in your mind?

Russell Elevado

I definitely had a feel as we were tracking it, but I didn’t think it would be as difficult as it was, because we’d keep bringing rough mixes home after the take and we all got used to hearing it in its super-raw form. But I’d say, just keep the rawness and don’t really over-EQ. I wanted it to be as if someone had found a cassette tape of some obscure band and it’s really old but it still plays with hisses, like an old demo tape that someone had lost. That was the vibe I wanted to create subliminally, a little scattered, but there’s a reason for it.

Benji B

And how long did the mixing take?

Russell Elevado

Some mixes were up for two weeks because D’Angelo is a perfectionist. It’d be up for two weeks, but for three or four days he wouldn’t even listen to it, so I’d be left there like, “OK, what can I do?” Which was great for me, because I can experiment, but after a while it was like, “OK, let’s put this to bed, because I’m losing perspective.” The hardest part at the end was keeping the perspective, because in my head I was ready to move forward and this was old. Not that I didn’t love it, but I was ready to move on. So the hardest part of the last part of the mixing process was maintaining what I was doing.

Benji B

Talk to me about the track “Untitled (How Does It Feel),” because you just mentioned the Prince and Hendrix influence and you can definitely hear it on that one.

Russell Elevado

It’s funny, because for every song I can think of a few stories. For “Untitled,” we were already past about ten deadlines. Two years later he walks up to me and says, “I want to cut this new song.” I said, “You want to cut this new song? We already have about 50 we can work on.” And he just walked out, because at that time nobody could pressure D’Angelo. So the record label came to me to put pressure on me to try to put pressure on D’Angelo. So we were hugely over-budget, we’ve already missed the tenth deadline and he’s trying to cut a new song. He walked out the studio, just walked around, had a beer, came back, and said, “Come on, Russ” – as if nothing had happened. And he played me the song. As soon as I heard it I was like, “OK, let’s record it.” And that was the last song we recorded, the single.

(music: D’Angelo - “Untitled (How Does it Feel)”)

Benji B

So the record that we’re listening to is a complete album. I was interested in getting your take on the concept of the album, the LP, which seems to be an increasingly lost artform in itself.

Russell Elevado

An album in general?

Benji B

Yeah, the concept of the album, something you want to listen to from start to finish. How relevant is it putting music together in LP format in 2007, keeping that alive? Because this definitely feels like it’s mixed and programmed as an LP experience rather than just random songs.

Russell Elevado

I don’t know how to turn that around because now it’s all about the producer, especially in the hip-hop and R&B world. “Who’s producing it? Oh, it’s a new artist, Timbaland produced it, it should be good, or Missy produced it.” Then there’s 20 songs of completely wack material. You buy it and you get two good songs. What a waste of time. So no wonder everyone’s downloading, they don’t want to spend the cash for two songs on an album’s worth of complete garbage. [Applause]

Benji B

What are some of your favourite LPs of all time, in terms of sound as well as content?

Russell Elevado

Definitely all of the Jimi Hendrix albums, definitely a big influence. I grew up playing guitar and the way his records would make you feel; same with all The Beatles records. Even to this day I’ll still pick them up and be like, “Holy shit! I didn’t realize they compressed the drums on this part.” And Stevie Wonder, his albums have this raw quality where everything sounds like it’s in the room. When you close your eyes it feels like the drummer’s sitting right there and the vocals are over there with the horns. I was a big Pink Floyd fan. But are you talking about records in general?

Benji B

I was thinking more from a mix and sound perspective, but I guess just as an overall experience.

Russell Elevado

Definitely Dark Side Of The Moon, it’s awesome from top to bottom. When I was growing up in New York there was a radio station that would play perfect album sides every Thursday. People would call in and request their perfect album sides. So one of them would be Abbey Road, another great one from top to bottom, you don’t want to take the needle off the record until you have to turn it over.

Benji B

And how depressing is it when you’ve put all that work in and you have to hear it as an MP3?

Russell Elevado

I’ve gotten used to it because you just can’t help it anymore, but it’s a shame that it’s a substandard that’s become the standard. Not because people prefer it, but just out of necessity. With iPods, you can get your little iPod Shuffle now and put all your songs in there. It’s cool for that, but people don’t really care about it anymore, which is kind of sad. I’m one of the guys trying to keep it alive. If you compare something in analog with something done entirely in digital, there’s just no comparison. Hands down, you can’t compare it.

Benji B

Even if I was playing a WAV or an AIF off that computer, and then off CD, you could hear the difference between those two?

Russell Elevado

Yeah, it’s the converter. People don’t realize, if you take care of every aspect of the process it’s going to show at the end of it. If you skip a process or cheat in the middle, it’s going to show. Say, if you used a great mic but the vocalist was in a rush or couldn’t take care of that particular thing, or you could’ve used tape that day but it was easier to use ProTools because it was up. But if you’re careful through the whole process, if you take the time and do it, it’s going to show at the end of the project. You’ll be like, “Wow! I’m so glad I did it like this.” That’s why these records sound like that.

Benji B

When you’re listening to your iPod do you only put AIF or WAV on there?

Russell Elevado

Yeah. [Laughs] In fact I just got my first iPod this year. It took me ten years to even get a CD player for my house, that’s how much of a huge analog fan I am.

Benji B

But from a mixing perspective, how important is it to know what it will sound like when it goes there? Because you know it will go there. It’s like in the old days, people used to listen on crappy speakers because they knew what it would sound like on the radio. Is that a consideration for you now, because you know people will listen to it as a crap MP3?

Russell Elevado

No, I don’t consider that at all, though I do listen to it on my computer, especially if I’m in a studio. Say I go to Europe to mix a project, and I’m in a foreign studio, I’ll listen to it on as many different systems as I can. I’ll try playing it in a club or in cars, the shittiest speakers I can find. That’s pretty much a standard because it’s got to be able to play anywhere. Every time I do a mix I take it home and play it in the car two or three times before I come in the next day.

Benji B

A lot of DJs and collectors who are transferring to digital now may have started off like you and been purist, thinking everything’s got to be AIF, WAV, 44.1, CD quality, whatever, and then after a while realized that if you’re going to put your music collection on there you’re going to need some Nasa level storage to get it all on. And then, if you take the Pepsi challenge on a 320 MP3 and an AIF, the average person will never get it. But it’s still quite upsetting to you to hear your music compressed even to that level, right?

Russell Elevado

It used to, but I’ve got so used to it, it really doesn’t bother me anymore. But the mixes are done so well, when it gets down to that level, I can hear it, but I really don’t pay attention.

Benji B

Would you rather hear your music played off vinyl or CD?

Russell Elevado

If it’s on vinyl, it’s got to be a good system. That’s one reason people don’t have it in their homes because you really need a good turntable, a good system. But CDs you can get away with a smaller system and still make it sound loud and have bass. I prefer vinyl, but I’ll listen to a CD.

Benji B

So you’re not going anywhere near a computer, you’re printing everything to tape, everything analog. For those people who have basic set-ups at home, who don’t have Neve [recording] desks at home and access to an SSL [mixing console], what steps can we take to ensure we can record good quality vocals in a bedroom situation or a nice quality guitar part?

Russell Elevado

Look at your budget. It really starts with a good microphone and a good mic preamp. You don’t have to buy a Neve console but you can buy a really high quality mic preamp. If you’re looking for that quality but you don’t have a major budget, save up for a really good microphone or at least a medium level one. Don’t buy the all-you-can-do boxes. Wait a little bit, save your money for the next level up. As far as recording into ProTools, the same thing: use high quality converters. I know some can be really expensive, but there are medium quality converters that are affordable these days. But definitely stay away from the all-in-one boxes. They’re good if you’re just starting out and can tweak your sound; it just depends how you’re perceiving your sound and approaching your music. You have to use what you can. If you’re limited, it’s all about your ears. There are definitely some crappy systems that make everything sound like crap that you should stay away from, but that’s why you should test everything out before you buy it, or listen to word of mouth. But there’s no getting around really high quality gear.

Benji B

Are you finding loads of studios around the world are closing around you?

Russell Elevado

Yes, it’s pretty much drying up, unfortunately, and it’s because of the ProTools revolution. I started interning in ‘86 and back then people were still coming in to do their demos. People would cut a deal with the manager, “I want to cut a demo, can you do it for this price, X amount of days?” Then he would end up working in the studio because the manager looked out for them. Then, when they get signed, they would do the album there. Now people are doing their demos in their house, which is fine, it’s just the evolution of production. But there’s the whole thing where people can do it in their homes and the record labels don’t want to spend the money anymore, the budgets have gone way down, because you can do everything in ProTools and cut an album for X amount of money. It’s killed the studio business.

Benji B

So studios are closing down, no one’s using 2” reels of tape at home. How do you as an engineer maintain the standards you care about?

Russell Elevado

Fortunately, most people ask me what format I want it on. Most people who want to work with me, if they know I’m going to mix their album, they’ll make sure it’s recorded as well as possible. So I’m spoiled.

Benji B

How important is mastering to the final mix of an album? What percentage is down to it?

Russell Elevado

It depends. If you get someone to mix it and it really sucks, the mastering person can save it and push the frequencies that are missing or delete. So then the mastering engineer can save you. A lot of the time people are coming in with ProTools files with stems and they’re kind of remixing the album in mastering. Now mastering can go on for two days because they’re re-doing levels, they have everything separated – drums, bass, vocals – and they’ll make final decisions in the mastering. But if your mixes are really good, then the mastering is just icing, getting the level up to CD level.

Benji B

Do you want to talk about the artists you’ve worked with over the years?

Russell Elevado

No, I just want to talk about D’Angelo. Just kidding.

Benji B

I know you’ve worked with a number of amazing artists over the last ten years: Common, The Roots, Erykah Badu. Where does the role of recording and mix engineer end and producer begin? Or is that a blurry line?

Russell Elevado

It’s a pretty blurry line. The really good mixers should get more of a co-production credit, because in the end it’s in the hands of the mixer. Most people come to me and I’ve never heard the album before, and it’s a pair of fresh ears. It takes a lot of trust from people to hand me something they’ve been working on and say, “Here, see what you can do with it.” The really good mixers do a lot of production.

Benji B

So, say, on a track like “The Seed” by The Roots, that’s got a very particular sound to it, almost like an era.

Russell Elevado

That’s a great example. ?uestlove pretty much gives me the concept. We have a good relationship. Out of all the artists I work with, besides D’Angelo, Ahmir is the one who can push me the furthest. Every time I work with him I need to push myself further than I would with other artists. He’s very experimental, and with both of us being that way we feed off each other. So with “The Seed” he said he wanted to sound like a garage band, but hi-fidelity. He said, “Go for the biggest drums, but old-sounding.” I just experimented until I could get the drums sounding huge without overpowering everything.

Benji B

Have you got that?

Russell Elevado

Yes, let’s see [scans tracklist]. Track ten.

(music: The Roots - “The Seed”)

Benji B

Which album is that from?

Russell Elevado

Phrenology.

Benji B

You seem to get sounds representing a particular era in some of your tracks, like “Green Eyes” by Erykah Badu. What was the concept of that? Because it seems to go from old school jazz texture, but there are three big sections in there.

Russell Elevado

That’s exactly what it is. The producer, James Poyser, and Erykah came up to me and said, “We want to tell a story and go through different eras.” So it goes from Billie Holiday and ‘60s jazz to the modern age, like D’Angelo and R&B. That was definitely the concept, each section.

Benji B

So if I came into your studio and said I wanted to make a Billie Holiday type of record, what would you do technically to achieve that?

Russ Elevado:

I would research what they had when they were recording Billie Holiday and try to get the gear, or just emulate it with what I had. The process happens as I go along, but I do reference different music when I mix, especially if I’m going for a particular sound.

Benji B

So what did you use for that track?

Russell Elevado

I definitely listened to Billie Holiday for that section, and I’m a big jazz lover, too, so for the middle section I knew I could stay in the Miles Davis thing.

RBMA

And then for the last bit, present day?

Russell Elevado

Present day.

Benji B

Do you want to check that out?

Audience

Yes.

Benji B

It’s a long one, and you have to listen to the whole thing to really get it. Everyone still up for it? No one falling asleep? Cool. What track number is it? You asked for it, ten minutes long.

Russell Elevado

A lot of these artists come to me with what I call their epic songs and they know I can tackle it. I love the challenge when an artist comes up with the song that really represents them, not the one that the record company are freaking out over, but the one that’s their special one. I’m flattered that a lot of these artists save their special ones for me because I can take it to the epic sort of thing.

Benji B

Let’s check it out.

(music: Erykah Badu – “Green Eyes”)

Again, totally amazing. How long does something like that to even start putting together?

Russell Elevado

I remember working three or four days on that one. The drums for the second and third parts were all recorded in one shot so I had to make them sound different. Originally, we were going to mix it in two different times, but just for the flow, I decided to do it in one shot. It took about three to four days, then Erykah wanted to change something, so I had to recall it, get all my settings back on all my analog gear and remix it again. So pretty much about six days, seven days, including the second time.

Benji B

So when it comes to recording, how complex is that in the analog world?

Russell Elevado

It’s definitely a process. There’s no longer the apprentice. It’s a special craft and the craft is really starting to die. That’s why I came here to do this, to hopefully inspire people to keep it alive. Now you’ve got all these plugins that can make it sound like this or that, but you should really try to research how that sound… because these sounds aren’t new, they’re just old sounds that came about from earlier engineers experimenting with tape. Everything is tape-based effects — you’re just delaying, manipulating the sound to be delayed so you can create phasing, flanging, doubling and delays. People should learn there was a certain standard at one point and it’s come down to a substandard. But there aren’t many studios…

Benji B

Yeah, if I want to do that, where can I do it?

Russell Elevado

Unfortunately, there aren’t many studios, but I learned everything when I was interning and assisting. It took me about six years before I went freelance as an engineer. During the transitional phase I worked with anybody until it got to the point where I could work with better artists. But it’s just about experience. I’ve been doing it for 21 years now, so if you do it for a certain amount of time, you have to pick something up. But there’s no substitute for experience. Try to do either an apprenticeship with an engineer or work for a major studio and be around that environment. I learned a lot of stuff assisting, just learning the craft of basic microphone placement, what mic to use, studio etiquette, just the vibe of how to treat the artist the best possible to get the best possible performance. A lot of people aren’t learning that these days, just the craft – it’s not a craft anymore. Hopefully I can come back and teach some more about it. I was offered the chance to teach some stuff at Berklee [College of Music], so I’m probably going to do that. Just pass it on before it completely dies.

Benji B

You’re going to be around for a little while, yeah? So we can hopefully get some direct one-to-one tuition in the studios.

Russell Elevado

Definitely.

Benji B

Talking of recording, you talked about different scenarios. Do you ever record choirs and orchestras as well?

Russell Elevado

I’ve recorded a choir, not too many orchestras. I think a 20-piece was the biggest I’ve ever done. I’d love to track a 100-piece orchestra, it’s something I need to do before I die. I love the challenge of getting the best recording in situations, I used to dream about that when I was younger. The first time I recorded a live band, I was so excited. I really like trying to get the best drum sound, the best bass drum, the best horns, best any sound.

Benji B

Talking of choirs, in terms of that bigger sound, I didn’t realise until yesterday you were responsible for a record that’s been a big DJ record for me, a tune by Tye Tribbett called “Mighty Long Way,” which features a how-many-piece choir?

Russell Elevado

It’s a 20-piece choir.

Benji B

And who recorded that?

Russell Elevado

Again, James Poyser, who produced Erykah, he played keyboards on Voodoo and did that tour, he worked with Lauryn Hill. I’m trying to give him his props because he doesn’t get it enough. He’s very talented, plays in his church in Philly, this huge congregation, every Sunday. He really comes from the church, so he’s the choir arranger. He’d been working with this group and asked me to mix it. Not a lot of people know this group, but the people that do, when they realize I worked on it, they’re like, “Holy shit! I never knew about this, everybody should hear it.” It’s one of those albums that’s incredible, but nobody knows about it.

Benji B

Well, let’s have a listen. Have you got “Mighty Long Way” with you?

Russell Elevado

Sure.

(music: Tye Tribbett — “Mighty Long Way”)

Benji B

There was a couple of songs you wanted to talk us through quickly in terms of other sounds and stuff, right?

Russell Elevado

Yeah, I mean, I just put together a playlist trying to encompass most of the things that I do. Just play a couple quick snippets of them.

Benji B

Maybe talk us through a few of them and then we’ll open it out to the floor if you’ve got any questions to ask about the tunes.

Russell Elevado

Okay. This one’s Blackalicious. I don’t know if anyone’s heard of them. That’s the first track. It’s just a good tune. Saul Williams is doing the poetry in the middle section. Just not sure when I’m going to be able to fade this. It might be a longer snippet than the rest of it because it kind of needs to go into that section, so here it is.

(music: Blackalicious ft. Saul Williams & Lyrics Born — “Release”)

Yeah, that group, that’s Blackalicious, they’re these guys from the San Francisco Bay Area. I got hooked up with them through The Roots. Another producer who just lets me be as creative as possible. When someone gives me that freedom, the mixes just kind of take a life of their own. That particular one, that’s Saul Williams, who’s an amazing poet... he’s like our modern day poet. It’s basically just two guys, Gift of Gab is doing the rap and this guy Chief Xcel is doing the beats and stuff. Just two guys.

Benji B

Is there anything else you want to talk about?

Russell Elevado

Just one more song. It’s this guy called Keziah Jones, I don’t know if you know of him. He’s a guitar player, he’s really from Lagos but he went to school in England and got signed to a label in Paris. That’s track nine. Kind of like a wacky song where the drums change a few different times.

(music: Keziah Jones — “72 Kilos”)

Benji B

Keziah Jones, right?

Russell Elevado

Yeah.

Benji B

Any questions?

Audience Member

Thanks for the amazing tracks and interesting lecture, but how do you design your stereo units? Do you draw a map or something, do you have an idea of where everything should be?

Russell Elevado

I don’t really have a plan when I start, I just feel it as the mix progresses. Sometimes I start off with maybe the guitar on one side, but then in the end it winds up in the middle or wherever. But it’s just a feel. Other times I approach it with the rhythm section off to the side. I’m really big with trying to make everything separate. My approach is to try to make it so, if they close their eyes, people can picture the musicians in the room.

Audience Member

Thanks. How have you trained your ears? Have you been closing your eyes and listening?

Russell Elevado

I always loved how things sounded. I was always the one who, when I got to somebody’s house, I would EQ their system, tune in their car stereos. I’ve always been like that. In my teenage years, I would lock myself in my room, smoke some pot and listen to music, just by myself, I would just pull out a bunch of albums and sit there for hours and just listen.

Audience Member

OK, yeah. One more question. If someone comes to you and asks for a certain sound like that, you should get a natural drum sound or something, where do you refer? There’s so many starting points for a drummer, for example, the natural sound is the one you hear on the drummer’s seat, and for someone in the audience, it’s the sound you hear from the PA.

Russell Elevado

You question is, what’s my reference?

Audience Member

Yeah.

Russell Elevado

Really, it’s just something I hear in my head. Sometimes, while the band is rehearsing, it will immediately click and I can just go for something. Most of the time, it just develops. The drummer will usually feed off the sound that I’m giving him and it just becomes sort of like a relationship. That happens. Yeah.

Audience Member

Okay, yeah. Thanks.

Audience Member

Did you work with [Atlantic Records producer] Tom Dowd at all?

Russell Elevado

I wish. I really wish. That guy was amazing, man. True innovator. Definitely one of my heroes for production, for record production, yeah.

Audience Member

Any of the other guys, like [Beatles producer] George Martin or…?

Russell Elevado

As far as engineers? No. I bumped into George Martin one day, which kind of freaked me out. I would say the biggest engineer or producer I worked with would probably be Bob Stone, who did all the Queen stuff. I’ve worked kind of on and off with Eddie Kramer. This guy Michael Barbiero. That’s probably about it. I would’ve died at the chance to work with George Martin or Tom Dowd.

Audience Member

Also, are you involved with the mastering as well? Do you sit in on the mastering sessions?

Russell Elevado

Yes, absolutely, especially if I do the entire album. It’s easy enough for someone who doesn’t know what the vision was to begin with to just tweak it to his ears. Yeah, I definitely make sure I’m there for the mastering. In which case, I don’t touch too much of it, because by the time it gets to mastering I really know, I’ve heard it on a couple systems and I know what to tweak.

Audience member

I know you’re really pushing the bass, the bottom on stuff. It plays really tight, but it’s right there. Are you maxing it out onto the tape?

Russell Elevado

Yeah, that comes from the master. That’s not done in mastering. That comes when I’m mixing, yeah, the bottom is there.

Audience Member

Cool, man. Cheers.

Russell Elevado

Thanks.

Audience Member

Do you have any tips on properly mic-ing up pianos?

Russell Elevado

If you have some good tube mics, it really shines on a piano. You can get away with some Neumann condensers, but really the best sound I’ve got is using tube mics, like some Neumann U67 or C24 stereo mics.

Audience Member

How many mics do you generally use?

Russell Elevado

Two usually. I’ll either go for a stereo mic or just do the X-Y.

Audience Member

We talked about my question two seconds ago, but I just want to ask you, I spend my life in cars listening to my music trying to get the mix right, and I’m wondering what is the exact difference on a track before and after the mastering? How “achieved” is the song when you come into the mastering? You surprised me when you said the guys are still tweaking with the song on ProTools when they go in there, because I had the conception of people still sending tapes to mastering, even though I’ve never seen a tape in my life. [Laughs]But that’s just how it is, you have to bring the final product. But what’s the difference? I know the mastering studio, because it’s a proper step, looks totally different from a mixing studio, so what exactly is it that’s done in there?

Russell Elevado

Most of the time, before you get to mastering, the levels of the master mixes are not quite as loud as they are for CD. That’s one part. The other part is, you’re done with everything and you can just put the icing on. If the quality is good and it’s been properly engineered and mixed…

Audience Member

With the general levels of the tracks you’ve mixed?

Russell Elevado

With the general levels of the master mix, once it’s been mixed to half-inch. Then it can go there and it’s basically a little bit of fine tuning, so you can brighten it up, put in a little bit more top or bottom.

Audience Member

Thanks for coming to share the information with us. I’ve got some questions. Let’s say you’re mixing a tune that’s going to be put on a CD, say a drum & bass tune that’s going to be played on a proper dub reggae soundsystem. The bassline is a detuned 808 , so it’s a sine wave bassline, it’s around 50-60Hz. Would you high-pass that bassline at around 20-30Hz?

Russell Elevado

I would if it needs it. Sure. Sometimes you’d be surprised, actually taking out bass will create more bass. As far as the mixing aspect, it’s all about the frequencies. It’s called masking and you can’t explain it all the time on a technical level, but aurally, if you listen to it, after it gets to your ear it can create an illusion where there’s phasing. Different frequencies clashing together can actually phase themselves out and create dead space, or a frequency will jump out at you. So pulling out a frequency can create more room and actually push the bass.

Audience Member

Thanks. I’ve got a few more. What’s your view on boosting EQs during mixing?

Russell Elevado

Boosting?

Audience Member

Yeah.

Russell Elevado

Yeah, you know what? I don’t really have any rules. If you need to push it to get a certain effect and it feels good to you, then by all means. I’ve pushed lots of EQs in my day. Is that what you mean?

Audience Member

Yeah, totally.

Russell Elevado

Just drastic EQ-ing?

Audience Member

Yeah, just boosting EQs. Some people say, stay away.

Russell Elevado

Oh, either additive or subtractive EQ-ing.

Audience Member

Yeah, like adding certain frequencies to a vocal or to a kick drum or something, as opposed to just cutting frequencies out of a certain sound?

Russell Elevado

Yeah, I kind of do both. As I’ve been just going through my career, now I’ll kind of start by either cutting or boosting and see which one works the best for me.

Audience Member

Also, just say you’re going to master a tune for a CD to be played in a club, what processes would you go through in software, for people who don’t have and can’t access hardware? What process would you go through in terms of mastering? Like the steps of EQ or compression or limiter and that type of thing.

Russell Elevado

If you don’t have analog gear?

Audience Member

Yeah.

Russell Elevado

I’m not sure because I never do it that way. I couldn’t even tell you what plugins to use because I don’t do it. I don’t use it.

Audience Member

Fair enough.

Russell Elevado

Sorry.

Audience Member

That’s fine. Any advice if you are writing for sound systems and you are writing in mono? Do you have any advice in that?

Russell Elevado

Sorry? Say again?

Audience Member

If you’re writing tunes specifically for sound systems and you’re writing in mono, do you have any advice for that?

Russell Elevado

If you’re trying to mix in mono, just with one speaker? Is that what you mean?

Audience Member

Yeah, or if you’re writing a tune in mono because you know that you’re going to be playing in certain clubs and the clubs only have, like the sound system’s running in mono.

Russell Elevado

OK.

Audience Member

Yeah. Do you have any advice if you’re writing tunes in mono for that purpose?

Russell Elevado

No. It’s good to ... I mix quite a bit in mono at a certain point. I’ll use, it’s called an R Tone. It’s just kind of like a three-inch speaker, just like a cube. I’ll go to that a lot to get levels and low, too. You don’t have to really crank it up to hear. In fact, things like harmonies become clearer when you’ve got it at a minimum level.

Audience Member

All right. Thanks a lot, thank you.

Audience Member

Hey again. You were saying that you played guitar before – has being a musician, or having an interest as a musician, has helped you get those journey and those epic mixes?

Russell Elevado

I think it definitely helps. Any sort of musical background, obviously, is going to help you through if you’re wanting to be specifically an engineer or a producer or both. I definitely think it helps in relating to artists and how they’re trying to get their sound across, if they’re trying to explain to you, or even just helping the session move a little better as far as knowing when different sections are going to come up. A vocalist could be in the room, or a horn player, and they may not be able to hear that they’re off key. If you’re not really a musician, you might not be able to hear that the person is off. Things like that definitely help the session on a technical level. It’s not to say that you have to be a musician to do that.

Audience Member

Cool. What is the exact difference between an engineer and a producer? If you’re suggesting ideas to the person who’s recording, is there then a producer role?

Russell Elevado

Technically, I guess back in the day, the producer was kind of the director, basically. Points people in the right direction and steers them along or tries to get an emotion, kind of directs the whole band or what have you. Then the engineer would be just the technical guy. I look at the engineer like a cinematographer and then the producer as a director. That’s the traditional roles. Now, the producer is sort of like the songwriter. The engineer’s roles, I guess, have always remained, but the producer now seems to be not that person that directs the whole thing – they’re kind of like the song writer, at least for R&B and pop music.

Audience Member

One more question. When you put some stuff on vinyl, do you send a tape and they record vinyl from a tape? So they won’t be in a digital format, so it will be all the time only analog?

Russell Elevado

Wait, I’m sorry, say again?

Audience Member

When you put some stuff on vinyl, do you send them a tape? How do they record the vinyl?

Russell Elevado

That’s a good question, because most of the vinyl, I could just call them transfers now. It’s not really vinyl mastering anymore. It still comes off the digital master for the CD and they just transfer it onto the lathe. The true, true analog mastering is a huge process. For people that still really want to do it these days, it’s like a huge calibration, because everything’s CD now, it gets stored in the back and the few times that people need this machine to get the proper analog mastering, it just costs a lot of money. A lot of times, yeah, they’re using the digital master to make the vinyl copy.

Audience Member

So you can’t basically maintain the analog format all the time.

Russell Elevado

Yeah, exactly.

Audience Member

My friend tells me you post on a forum about sound techniques. Do you have the address?

Russell Elevado

It’s Gearslutz.com. Once you get to the home page and scroll down to the bottom, I’m linked in the archives under ‘guest spot,’ I think they call it.

Audience Member

OK, cool. Also, just out of curiosity, I remember in the sleeve notes for Voodoo you’re referred to as “Russ the Dragon”. What’s that about? You’ve got a tattoo, as well.

Russell Elevado

It’s actually because I’ve got some dragon tattoos and me and D got a tattoo together at the same time. When his manager saw it he was like, “Oh. We’re going to call you the dragon from now on.” It’s funny, because I said once we were done with it I wanted to have my credit just proper, Russell Elevado, you know, because I was so proud of it. I don’t want some nickname attached to it because, you know, just proper. They put it on there anyway and I was really pissed at first, then it just became a thing and now I’m like, OK, whatever. Now people ask me, “You want the dragon, you want it on there or not?” I just say, “You decide. I don’t care. If you can fit it on, if not.”

Audience Member

Thanks for the whole experience, but I’d like to ask if you don’t use any sort of digital instruments in your setup? Never?

Russell Elevado

Sometimes I do, it depends on the session.

Audience Member

Like synthesizers and stuff?

Russell Elevado

Yes, sometimes. A lot of the time the artists who are coming to me are on the same thing anyway, bringing in analog keyboards and stuff. If I see a digital piece, I don’t go, “No, get it out of here.” I just prefer analog, it’s what I’m used to, it’s what I can make sound really good.

Audience Member

Something you touched on before about certain mics you can get. There are a lot of live musicians here, we’ve got some vocalists, horn players, and it would be good if you could expand on that. I know Neumann are good, but I can’t say, for instance, for vocals get this, for percussion get this. It would be good if you could expand on some of the mics and companies we could go to.

Russell Elevado

Let’s see. Neumann make the TLM-103 and the KM-84 series. Those are excellent mics for your budget. If you can save – I know it’s a lot of money for most people starting out – $800-1000, you’re not going to be sorry. You’re going to be like, “Wow! I got this really great mic.” And then just go from there. A good budget mic would be Audio-Technica, they make some really good mics for the money. Some of the entry level Neumann mics are really good for the money. There’s this one company... can’t remember the name, but I would stay away from. Even the Shure mic, or a 121, I still use those regularly on drums. I never normally go to a 421 on the toms and the snare, I’ll always use a SN-57, which is what, $100.

Audience Member

It’s like $60.

Russell Elevado

So little things like that. I would definitely cruise the forums, check out Gearslutz and research. Don’t go blindly into Guitar Center and buy the latest, greatest thing. I would definitely do the research before you do it. You can find good details on eBay. I’m trying to look for the person who asked me this, oh, you’re over there. [Laughs]Definitely do the research.

Audience Member

Thank you very much, this is really a great day for me. This is amazing stuff, but I do have a question on my own interest. Particularly on the gospel track and the density of the voices, the number of different voices – do you have any tips on density management?

Russell Elevado

That’s a tough one and something I’ve learned just from mixing all these years. A lot of it has to do with blends, I spend a lot of time blending a particular section. Mostly I start off with instruments, then when I get to that track, I know I’m faced with tons of vocals. So I’ll get the track kind of happening, not all the way, and then I’ll put the vocals in right away, instead of waiting and doing it as a step-by-step process. I do the frequencies I know I’m going to have to do a lot of work on right away with the track. It’s never good to stay in solo mode and hear the instrument by itself because it’s going to sound completely different once it’s in the track. I only solo if I’m hearing a problem or searching for a different frequency. Most of the time I’m EQing everything in the track as it’s playing all together. As for vocals, I’ll spend time with minute little rides for the levels. Instead of having one level set, I’ll take every note in each harmony and move things around until they’re sitting perfectly. A lot of it has to do with placement, too, I spend a lot of time putting it in the sound field instead of just here or there, just spreading it out. For the choir I had the bass in the middle choir then the highs on the right side. Spread it out.

Audience Member

Thanks a lot.

Audience Member

Have you done any recordings outside the studio?

Russell Elevado

Live recording?

Audience Member

Different from the studio, like field recordings. Like for a musical or for the cinema or whatever. I’m not sure if you have any knowledge of this, but there’s quite a difference between proper instrument microphone rather than shotgun microphone.

Russell Elevado

I’ve had limited experience on that. Just once, before I got started, friends and I would experiment. But professionally I’ve not done it, though I have done a lot of live recordings.

Audience Member

Do you have any references of people who do it?

Russell Elevado

You should research some of the film guys, the ones who go out and get the Foley, exactly. Read up on those guys because I’ve got some good information from looking at those things on film guys. It’s something I’d love to do, mix sound for film.

Benji B

Any more questions?

Russell Elevado

How many people want to study engineering? [Audience raise hands off camera] How many people are musicians? Last thing, how many people want to go into production?

Benji B

Absolutely fascinating lecture, thank you so much for sharing.