Arturo Lanz

Emma Warren

But we have with us a man who’s been hugely important in industrial music and the music he’s made with his band Esplendor Geométrico – sorry, I’m going to have to apologize throughout for a very poor Spanish pronunciation – has been massively influential on music that you would expect, but also on music that you wouldn’t expect. We’re gonna be hearing some of the music he’s been making recently, because this is someone with a creative lifespan that spans many decades. When you think abou it, most people have a purple patch, a period when they’re creative and making stuff. But usually that period is fairly finite. I think you can say, accurately with this band, they’ve remained creatively interesting, strong, confrontational and powerful, throughout a long time. So I’d like to say a very, very big welcome to Arturo Lanz. [applause]

Arturo Lanz

Thank you, thank you.

Emma Warren

We’re going to get some context later on and find out about Madrid in 1980 and the context that made you make music. But before that I’d like to hear some of the new music you’ve made. You’ve got an album that came out, was it yesterday?

Arturo Lanz

Two days ago.

Emma Warren

OK, two days ago. So we’re talking something brand spanking new. Do you want to tell us a bit about the new record before we hear anything?

Arturo Lanz

It’s the music I make in my home at night, trying to meditate with my music. This is the purpose of my music, something for myself and for meditation in the evening. I have friends and they consider that it is possible to publish. This is my career; there are no more secrets.

Emma Warren

I have to admit that I haven’t heard this album, but the music that I have heard of yours that you did from 1981 up to the mid-’80s and the early ’90s is not what I would call meditation music. [laughter]

You extract tones from machines, you scream, you shout. This is powerful stuff.

Arturo Lanz

They are very repetitive.

Emma Warren

So this meditation music, is it a radical departure for you? Are you making dolphin music?

Arturo Lanz

No, no, no, it’s not like that. It’s something like a mantra. Maybe for the rest of the people it’s a crazy idea, but for me it’s like this.

Emma Warren

So for you it’s like this. What’s the track you’re going to play us?

Arturo Lanz

I don’t know, the first one.

(music: Esplendor Geométrico — “Puntos De Centrado” / applause)

Emma Warren

So we have meditation industrial-style there. There’s something I’m very interested in here. When you think about industrial music you think about being bludgeoned with something. You think about machines. You don’t think about funk in a natural sense, but somehow your music has a lot of groove in it. How do you find a groove when your source material is industrial sounds and machine music and aggressive sounds like that?

Arturo Lanz

When I am in my home and start to do this I don’t consider this is industrial. It’s the people who call it industrial. At the beginning with Throbbing Gristle and Cabaret Voltaire... Well, I consider industrial music only Throbbing Gristle. The rest of the groups, for instance, Esplendor Geométrico, I don’t think it’s industrial. It’s more repetitive music, something non-industrial. Maybe dance music.

Emma Warren

So not industrial, but repetitive music definitely. So, for you, where’s the groove in repetitive music?

Arturo Lanz

The groove? What is groove? [laughs]

Emma Warren

[laughs] OK, perhaps we started in slightly too complicated a fashion. Certainly, for me today, I’m going to keep things simple. Tell me about the beginning. You started making music in 1980 in Madrid, so obviously this is a time of great political change and also a period where people were reacting to the years of dictatorship. Can you give us a sense of what it was like to be young and creative at that point, and what you were responding to?

Arturo Lanz

Well, I was 16 years old in 1977 and we started in ’77, ’78 with a group called El Aviador Dro, which was techno-pop music. More pop than techno.

Emma Warren

So this is your first band, 1980?

Arturo Lanz

Yeah. In 1980 in Madrid, the ambience in Madrid was very [creative] with Almodovar and so on making short films, and there was a free movement after Franco. The people wanted to do something and around this time I heard the Sex Pistols and realized it’s very easy for you do something with music while not having any idea about music. And we started doing this until ’80; then I started Esplendor Geométrico.

Emma Warren

So before 1980 you’re in your band, you’re inspired by the Sex Pistols, and you realize you can make music. Again, some people may have an idea of what life was like in Spain under Franco, to other people it may not be so clear. Can you give us a sense of what it’s like to live under his regime? Was he very controlling of music and culture? Is this something that affected everybody on an everyday level?

Arturo Lanz

I was very young and when I realized I lived under the Franco regime it was almost at an end of the situation. I didn’t realize that I lived in a dictatorship.

Emma Warren

So it wasn’t impacting on you personally?

Arturo Lanz

Yes, by ’76 I realized that before that there had been no freedom at all. My family explained to me that it was terrible. People had had it up to here of this situation. Now that I live in Beijing, it’s the same feeling. I think it’s very similar to these years in Madrid.

Emma Warren

I want to ask you about Beijing and your observations of that city, but for the moment we should get back to the beginnings of your musical career. You’re in this band, El Aviador. You’re making music that’s somewhere around the Kraftwerk kind of area?

Arturo Lanz

No, no.

Emma Warren

Not at all? This internet is full of lies, man. Don’t believe anything you read online. So you tell me what was the music like of that band.

Arturo Lanz

It’s pop, but we have some futuristic costumes. We were like Devo, we were a total copy because in Spain it was like this.

Emma Warren

But actually, that’s an interesting thing, isn’t it? Often, the way people start creatively is to take something they like and to do it themselves but to do it slightly wrong. Either that can be the beginning of your own creative path, or you can create your own sound as a reaction to the thing you do wrong. Would you say that was the case for you?

Arturo Lanz

Yes, it was copying this and I was the voice in the group, I didn’t make any music. In the ’80s I realized it was bullshit, terrible. I heard something more interesting and started to do something more vital for me.

Emma Warren

So you say you heard something more interesting and wanted to do something more vital. What was it you heard that made you stop making music like Devo in costumes and do something more vital?

Arturo Lanz

Throbbing Gristle. They were the first group that made me say, “OK, this is incredible.”

Emma Warren

How did you first come across Throbbing Gristle? Do you recall how it felt when you first heard their music? Maybe you have something to play.

Arturo Lanz

By Throbbing Gristle?

Emma Warren

Yes.

Arturo Lanz

Yeah, yeah. But I have something new.

Emma Warren

Tell us then about your early interactions with this band, when you first heard them.

Arturo Lanz

Throbbing Gristle? I was in Switzerland, in Zürich, and I was in a record shop. The people in the shop were very nice and, “This is very good. If you’re looking for something different, you have to have this.” Then – and this is very important in music and in life – I was lucky that this man in the record shop was very interested to show me something new.

Emma Warren

So a random interaction in a Swiss record shop and suddenly Throbbing Gristle enter your life. That’s a powerful set of people to have in your household.

Arturo Lanz

Then we started doing something more special. At the beginning it was pop; Esplendor Geométrico was a little pop. I can put something of this on. This is “Moscú Está Halado.” Do you have “Moscú”?

Emma Warren

“Moscú”? Yes. See if you can find it; let’s have a race. I think you’re gonna win. So this is the track that was reissued on the Stones Throw label recently, Minimal Wave Vol. 1, where they collected music that had been influential, early electronic repetitive industrial world. And through that a whole load of other people found out about your music.

Arturo Lanz

We can play this. In this time it was very innocent music. About ’79.

(music: Esplendor Geométrico — “Moscú Está Helado”)

(music: Esplendor Geométrico — “Necrosis En La Poya” / applause)

I consider this the first song by Esplendor Geométrico.

Emma Warren

Is this one of the ones released on cassette?

Arturo Lanz

No, it was a single.

Emma Warren

So you did it as a 7”.

Arturo Lanz

Yeah.

Emma Warren

But you also released some cassettes, didn’t you? These were things you did yourself?

Arturo Lanz

Yes, after this record we did the first cassette.

Emma Warren

So how important was it for you to be in control of your own material, both financially, in terms of the structure, and also creative freedom?

Arturo Lanz

There was no other way in Spain at this time. This kind of music was impossible, even to play live it was impossible. And people in Spain didn’t understand anything about this music.

Emma Warren

So why was it impossible to play? Because no one wanted to come and see you? Or was it considered too controversial?

Arturo Lanz

Yeah, very controversial, and also everyone thought I was crazy. This was in the ’80s and people in Spain were focused on pop, and to be happy and to be fun. If you do something that isn’t fun then you are from another planet. People don’t speak to you, they say, “This is crazy.”

Emma Warren

So why was it so controversial? Just because it was music that people had never experienced before or you were covering things and using images and ideas that were quite shocking?

Arturo Lanz

We were against this and we were against these people. The words of the songs were a little heavy. Nowadays, in Spain I think it’s impossible to use these kinds of words for the songs. We’d be in jail.

Emma Warren

So you think you’d be imprisoned if you made music now like you made in the ’80s.

Arturo Lanz

With these words, yeah.

Emma Warren

How do you feel about that now? Are there things that you regret or do you believe that an artist should never censor themself no matter how offensive other people might find it?

Arturo Lanz

Now I don’t do anything about this. I don’t need to. But at this age, 16 years old, yeah. We need to do something in Spain like this.

Emma Warren

You talk about yourself being 16 years old, so is that the impulse of that point in your life or is it the impulse of someone coming out of a country in dictatorship?

Arturo Lanz

It’s a reaction against some people who think music is only joy and funny. For me at this time, it was not like this.

Emma Warren

So you wanted to make some music that was not joyful and not funny. Can you tell us a bit more about how that showed itself or maybe play us some other music which kind of fits into this category?

Arturo Lanz

For example, this one.

(music: Esplendor Geométrico — unknown / applause)

Emma Warren

You’ve kind of already answered this but I have to ask you this again after hearing that record, where do you stand on censorship generally for an artist? Should artists ever censor themselves or should an artist always feel free to make the music they feel regardless of potential offense to other people?

Arturo Lanz

Can you repeat, please? [laughs]

Emma Warren

Do you think artists should censor themselves? What’s more important – my right to say what I want or your right not to be offended?

Arturo Lanz

Now, I think it’s very important don’t offend the people. I think that’s the most important. Enjoy your music but try not to offend anyone.

Emma Warren

Does that just come down to words, to lyrics? Obviously, before you were writing words, there’s still a vocal element to what you’re doing. But I understand you tend to use words you find, found material, newspaper headlines. Words you like rather than lyrics that mean something. You’ve said you don’t want to offend people. Musically, you still want to be strong and powerful and confrontational, but you no longer want to use words that other people would find offensive. Is there a difference between words and music in terms of their power?

Arturo Lanz

No, because with music it’s impossible to offend anyone. I do it for myself. I don’t do it for anyone. I don’t think I offend anyone, only me. If I don’t like it then I’m offended by my music. But the rest of the people, if they don’t like it then don’t listen to this music. It’s very easy. But with words it’s different, because the words, the people can suffer with what you say and I don’t want the people to suffer.

Emma Warren

Let’s talk for a minute about the equipment you’re using to make these records. You’re coming from a band that was more kind of pop-centred. You started the band with two other people, and I understand you picked up a Korg and a four-track recorder. So what was it, an MS-20?

Arturo Lanz

MS-20, yeah, and an echo very primitive, and delay. And, of course, there’s no Logic. At this time it doesn’t exist. One record for two tracks.

Emma Warren

So a two-track recorder.

Arturo Lanz

MS-20 and MS-10.

Emma Warren

So were these machines easy to get at that point or were they still quite rare or expensive?

Arturo Lanz

Two members of Esplendor Geométrico sold their guitars and bass and bought the synthesizers.

Emma Warren

So they sold their guitar and their bass for their synths, a transaction which other people would recognize. Were you aware of other people making machine music? Were you aware of others or did you feel like only you were doing this?

Arturo Lanz

In Spain no one else was doing this music.

Emma Warren

I guess, I’m interested in knowing who you considered to be your peers. Who was making music similar to you?

Arturo Lanz

Cabaret Voltaire and Throbbing Gristle and at the same time there’s SPK from Australia. We had friendly relations with SPK.

Emma Warren

What did the Korg and the two-track recorder give you that the guitars and the drums couldn’t give you before? What was the difference working with the Korg, a machine, and the instruments?

Arturo Lanz

It was much easier. You can do it at home with earphones, very easy. The guitars and the drums in your room at home, this is awful. You have to be a local to stay there. In my room it was impossible, my family hated this music. I can’t use earphones with the guitar.

Emma Warren

So did your family enjoy your music more once you moved to the Korg?

Arturo Lanz

No, no, no. [laughter] They’re happy for me because I’m happy, but the music for my family is not very serious.

Emma Warren

One other thing about this particular period in time... You took your name from an Italian futurist. Was it common at that time to be inspired by politics and radical philosophy? I think now if you talked to musicians and say, “Are you inspired by politics and radical philosophy?” – most people would say no. I could be wrong, but I think generally people feel politics and music should be separate. Quite often they are quite separate, and there aren’t many people working in a way that’s naturally cohesive between the two. So was this a normal thing to do at the time?

Arturo Lanz

Well, yes. The name was very nice in Spanish. Esplendor Geométrico sounds very good. And we were reading a lot of futurist philosophy books. El Aviador is the name of a futurist opera and Esplendor Geométrico is a poem by [Filippo Tommaso] Marinetti. There’s nothing behind this though, it’s only the name because we thought it was beautiful. It’s nothing intellectual.

Emma Warren

So for you it was just that you liked the sound of the words.

Arturo Lanz

Yes. It’s like with the CDs, the names of the tracks, there’s nothing behind it. I don’t choose the names, it’s other people. For me, it’s not interesting to choose the names.

Emma Warren

Is that because you want the listeners to have the freedom to take what they want from it?

Arturo Lanz

Yes, even for me.

Emma Warren

It’s interesting because at the same time people from Detroit, people like Juan Atkins who went on to make Detroit techno, were listening to music that overlapped with the music you were listening to and were interested in futuristic texts. For them, I guess, it was more Alvin Toffler than Marinetti or the people you were listening to, but it does seem across the world at that time there were people having the same idea who were expressing it differently. I guess the Detroit guys were taking the industrial sounds of their city and it sounded like techno; you were taking the sounds of your city and making it sound different. Point over. [laughs]

OK, we’ve talked about some of the first pieces of music you made, but you carried on making tens of albums. I think you made three, four, five albums in the ’80s. Was it four?

Arturo Lanz

I don’t know.

Emma Warren

Loads. Anyway. But there was one album in 1988, Mekano-Turbo, which seemed to have another turning point with some other influences coming in. Do you have some music from that album with you?

Arturo Lanz

No.

Emma Warren

If not that one, perhaps there’s music from another album in the ’80s that you’d care to share with us. ’Cause this is a point, you had started your label, Esplendor Geométrico Discos, in 1985, I guess partly because you had to, but also because you had this creative freedom.

Arturo Lanz

I don’t know if I have it here. I don’t listen to my music. I never listen to my music.

Emma Warren

I guess some of us will be listening to your music when you play.

Arturo Lanz

Yeah, I like to hear my music live. Because it’s the only opportunity I have to have a lot of sound, a lot of power.

Emma Warren

I guess anyone who’s seen YouTube clips of you performing will know there’s a lot of energy and power in your performance. I mean, really.

Arturo Lanz

This last CD, maybe after one week I’m not going to listen to it again. Because it’s very boring for me.

Emma Warren

What will you be performing when we see you play?

Arturo Lanz

From this last one ‘cause it’s the most enjoyable, because the old one is terrible, you know? Very boring. [laughs]

Emma Warren

I guess this is obvious, but when you’ve been making music a long time and people are interested in a certain period of your music, how do you keep pushing forwards? How do you keep the creative power when probably people just want to listen back to the old stuff ‘cause it’s easier now?

Arturo Lanz

Because I don’t think about people when I make music. This “Moscú Está Halado” that was on the compilation is terrible for me now, I don’t like it. I don’t consider this my music anymore. I don’t recognize me in the music I did in the past. Always in the new, because the past is past. There’s only the present.

Emma Warren

So you’re a true modernist in that sense, always having to do the music you’re doing now. Let’s stick with the live performance, because I’ve seen clips of you onstage. You’re banging things, you’re storming around the stage. You’re very present on the stage, pretending to hang yourself. You’ve got your microphone in your mouth. It’s a very strong way of performing, specifically the thing to do with the microphone. Actually swallowing the microphone and performing with it. So you don’t need any hands, you’re holding it in your mouth. How did you start doing that?

Arturo Lanz

It’s natural. [laughs] It’s nothing I studied, it’s in the state. During the state, similar to a mantra or something, then you can do this. Even I a gym, I did exercise in Germany in one concert. The power of the sound is very repetitive and you start to be very physical. It’s very physical, this music.

Emma Warren

It really is. When we first started talking I asked you about a groove and it’s not necessarily a groove, but it’s something you can’t help moving to. There’s a physical response to the music, which is quite powerful. For you as a performer, do you feel you’re just doing what your body is telling you to do in the moment of that music? I guess, it’s the opposite of a dance routine. You’re following where your body is taking you in response to the sound.

Arturo Lanz

The second one.

Emma Warren

It looks like that. It looks like you’re in a very primal state that you’re in as a performer.

Arturo Lanz

It depends on the sound of the state. If the sound is good and powerful, then it’s very, very good for me. If the sound isn’t good then the concert is very relaxed.

Emma Warren

Then we’ll see you in your chair, pressing a few button. Maybe doing a few formation dance routines.

Arturo Lanz

Yeah, it’s very physical. It’s not with a laptop – maybe it’s broken by the end of the concert. You have to consider this, also. Sometimes I broke the thing. But not with the poses, there’s nothing prepared. You know? It’s natural.

Emma Warren

So what kinds of things have got broken recently?

Arturo Lanz

It’s terrible. One Wavestation. Of Korg. This incredible instrument, and I broke it, it’s terrible.

Emma Warren

How did you break it? Was it just in the moment?

Arturo Lanz

In Japan, with percussion. [laughter] And then totally broken. But it’s awful ’cause it makes no sense to break it. [shrugs]

Emma Warren

One thing that occurred to me from seeing your performances is that actually a lot of laptop performers could learn something from you. Whether or not they choose to trash their equipment, that’s another thing. But certainly, I’ve not often seen laptop performers who are able to own the stage or move away from the laptop. You’ve got controllers. Saverio was using a controller and you were using one in your performance, moving away from the laptop and controlling it remotely. It’ll be interesting to see how this generation of laptop performers start to develop performances that enable them to step away from the machine and interact with the crowd.

Arturo Lanz

In our case, Saverio Evangelista is a member of the group, who is more relaxed and controls the things. But I think things like Alva Noto is more visual. They play with the visuals, which is good, but is not my case. We have visuals, but it’s because Saverio likes them a lot. For me, it’s not important, it’s only the music.

Emma Warren

Not visuals, just the music. Do you have something else you can play us?

Arturo Lanz

More music. [loud crash / laughter]

Emma Warren

Wakey wakey! That was the whole track? [laughter] Joke.

(music: Esplendor Geométrico — unknown / applause)

Arturo Lanz

A lot of the voices I use come from YouTube. This is like a woman screaming.

Emma Warren

Why do you think aggression is such a powerful emotion in your music?

Arturo Lanz

Aggression? No, I don’t think it’s aggressive.

Emma Warren

What do you think it is?

Arturo Lanz

Aggressive? No, no.

Emma Warren

Maybe confrontational? Maybe disturbing? What would you say?

Arturo Lanz

I think it’s nice. [laughter] It’s a work for the peace of the world. [laughs]

Emma Warren

It really does show how a different set of ears, a different cultural influence will interpret music differently.

Arturo Lanz

With this music you can listen with earphones, very loud. You have to realize every sound of the track is like something for which you must have an empty mind. Then you can use yourself to jump. But it’s not aggressive. I don’t feel it’s aggressive. Maybe I’m wrong.

Emma Warren

That’s one of the beauties of making music, especially something that’s quite unique, is that it’s going to be accepted differently by different people. Nobody’s ears hear in exactly the same way, we all perceive things differently.

Arturo Lanz

Of course. Plenty of people feel it’s aggressive. But for me, no.

Emma Warren

Of course. You referred again to this kind of meditative aspect of the music, so if you put your headphones on and get into it somehow it’ll empty your mind, it’ll allow you to reach a state of... what?

Arturo Lanz

An empty mind. It’s very easy with this to have an empty mind.

Emma Warren

Are you interested in meditation generally outside of music?

Arturo Lanz

Yes, very interested.

Emma Warren

Is it something you practise?

Arturo Lanz

Yeah, I practise meditation.

Emma Warren

Does it help you with the music?

Arturo Lanz

No, not really. But my life is also music, and it’s for my life and my music and the other things that I do. Of course, I’d recommend this to anyone, these meditation techniques. Very nice.

Emma Warren

Maybe if you were to offer some tips, some thoughts, to people on how to make your whole life creative instead of just a portion, meditation would be one part of that.

Arturo Lanz

Yes, it’s very creative. Even when you meditate you create things.

Emma Warren

Anything else you would suggest in order to have a creative life?

Arturo Lanz

Don’t give any importance to the music. [laughs] I don’t give any importance to what I do. I think that’s the most important thing. And, of course, it’s very important for creativity – don’t look for money, for example. Don’t look to people buying your records. I think this is a very anti-creative thing.

Emma Warren

So you’re saying, to be creative you need to not attach too much importance to your music?

Arturo Lanz

Important for you but not for the rest of the people. Maybe other people don’t like it. So it’s important for you, but not for the rest of the people. You have to realize this or you are going to suffer a lot. I do a lot of other things; music is ten percent of my life.

Emma Warren

So are you saying if you’re making music you have to make it for yourself and that’s it?

Arturo Lanz

Yes.

Emma Warren

I mean, I know it’s kind of obvious – that’s what everything creative comes down to; you make it for yourself and if other people like it that’s a bonus. But sometimes it can get quite complicated, can’t it? If you’re making music and it becomes your business, it can be hard not to feed the business and make the music that the business itself requires.

Arturo Lanz

This is the question. For me, it’s impossible to live with this kind of music. But I like it. So I have to work on another thing if not. If I have no money then it’s impossible to make the music. Then I have to work on another thing.

Emma Warren

Can you imagine not making music?

Arturo Lanz

No, it’s impossible. After 40 years, 35 years, it’s impossible.

Emma Warren

How often do you work?

Arturo Lanz

Every day, every evening.

Emma Warren

So is it a routine? Maybe after dinner you sit there and make music for two hours or what?

Arturo Lanz

Yes, it’s a routine. I use a Mac and now – because before it was impossible – I use Logic and this rhythm machine, Ultrabeat – I think that’s the name, I don’t know – and it’s a very nice rhythm machine. You can do a lot of rhythms, very repetitive. If I can stand 20 or 30 minutes of the same, then I consider that’s good. If ten minutes, it starts being boring...

Emma Warren

So you mean that if you can listen to a piece of music you’re making for 20 minutes…

Arturo Lanz

More than 20, maybe 30.

Emma Warren

Then you’ll continue making it. If after ten minutes you’re bored, you’ll dash it.

Arturo Lanz

Yes. If it’s boring I won’t finish it.

Emma Warren

Interesting, this is a very fast work rate. How long does it take you to make a track?

Arturo Lanz

Very difficult to say. If after 30 minutes you say it’s okay, then this is the base of the track. Then I go to YouTube, I put in sounds with synthesizers that are okay with the rhythm. And I try not to put more the day after.

Emma Warren

So you’ll leave it. You make the track, go to YouTube, get some sounds, put them on the track. Then once you’ve placed stuff, are you doing anything more to it or are you just saying, that’s it, it’s done?

Arturo Lanz

That’s it, enough. At the beginning, when I was using the MS-20, the MS-10, these analog instruments, it was impossible to record, impossible to repeat the same track. I tried to do the same with the digital, the computer.

Emma Warren

So you’re taking an analog working practice to a digital environment.

Arturo Lanz

Yes.

Emma Warren

Does that work for you because that’s how you used to work? Or does it work for you because you think there’s a kind of power to things being raw and unfinished?

Arturo Lanz

If you start to think or put more things in there, then it makes no sense. It’s not fresh. This way it’s more natural. Then the next day you have another track.

Emma Warren

One thing I think people here might struggle with is to know when a track is finished. The temptation is to keep working on it and make it perfect and find this point where it’s done. Your solution is very simple: If you’re bored, it’s no good, and if you can live with it for 20 minutes it’s done. Do you have any suggestions here for how people might know when a track is finished and to have the confidence to then step away and move on to something new?

Arturo Lanz

It’s impossible to give some advice to people because, of course, they will know more than me with computers and music. Everyone has their way of working and I think all of them are okay.

Emma Warren

But do you, perhaps, think part of the reason you’ve produced so much music and released so much music every decade since your first releases in 1981 is because you know how to finish a track?

Arturo Lanz

Yeah, maybe that’s the reason. [laughs]

Emma Warren

I know some brilliant musicians who’ve hardly put out any music because they’re never content.

Arturo Lanz

Perfection is a terrible thing. I don’t look for perfection; no matter about perfect things. Better not to be perfect.

Emma Warren

I think for some musicians, the quest for perfectionism can be a real curse. Moving on to something else, you live in Beijing. Some people here might know about the music and culture you’ll find in that city but I don’t. Can you tell us what attracted you to live there and what it’s like musically and culturally in that city?

Arturo Lanz

I live there because I work there in the embassy of Spain. It’s a very interesting city. I’ve been there 15 years, people are nice, and now the music is starting to be... it’s like in Spain in the ’80s. There’s a lot of groups doing pop and techno and noise. I think in two or three or four years there’s going to be a lot of interesting people there.

Emma Warren

It’s interesting, again I might be wrong here, because my understanding is that in Brazil, the tropicália music, which is very beautiful music, was a reaction to a totalitarian government. It was very subtly against the government. You could make points, you could speak to people, but you did it in a very beautiful way. Do you think there’s a point where a totalitarian government is changing and that’s the point where people want to make music that’s more powerful?

Arturo Lanz

No, I think the people making music there aren’t thinking about the change of government. It’s very free... If you don’t say that the Communist Party is awful, then you can do what you want. People are not interested in general. Maybe in five or six years the middle class is going to be more important. The Communist Party is preparing to change now. I don’t think it’s going to be very violent.

Emma Warren

So what kind of music have you come across while in Beijing? Are there any artists or bands you’ve seen perform that you thought were particularly interesting?

Arturo Lanz

Well, there is a band, I don’t know if it exist over here, it’s called White. Two Chinese people, one girl and one man and it’s very interesting music. And that’s with an MS-20.

Emma Warren

The wheel has come full circle.

Arturo Lanz

Yeah, yeah. Then there are people who are extremely noisy, like in Japan, but even more than Japanese people. Because Chinese people are more radical than Japanese. Then there are a lot of techno DJs. Some of the best places to go for DJs are Shanghai and Beijing. It’s a very good market for them.

Emma Warren

It’s a fully global world, so of course, it’s perfectly natural that young kids in China will be listening to the same music that we’re all listening to here.

Arturo Lanz

It was impossible to listen to The Beatles, but now it’s possible. Even if the social networks are [down] and it’s impossible to go to Facebook or YouTube, the people have this VPN.

Emma Warren

So it’s not officially possible to go to Facebook or YouTube but there’s ways of accessing the music. There was one interesting thing, which kind of semi-taps into this, that I heard you say was you make folk music but with electronic instruments. For instance, in the UK, some people believe that grime music is folk music. But instead of being an old Irish guy in a pub with a violin, you’re a young guy from the streets of East London with a microphone. Is that an accurate quote? Do you believe you’re making folk music?

Arturo Lanz

It’s more tribal music than folk. It’s not technological music, it’s more physical. I think it’s very primitive music. If I could do the same with my body and not use instruments, I think it’s better, but it’s impossible.

Emma Warren

We’re gonna put it out to questions fairly soon. I guess, you’re saying it’s primal and physical rather than folk music. Maybe folk is something that reflects the feelings of the people and tribal music is maybe less conscious. But are you aware of the influence that your music has had on musicians who are operating now?

Arturo Lanz

No.

Emma Warren

Is that because you’re not interested in perhaps seeing yourself like that?

Arturo Lanz

No, I’m not interested. I’m not a myth man. I don’t believe in myths. People say it’s a cool band. For me I don’t believe this. People say everyone had their influence. But it’s not important who you influence.

Emma Warren

So I guess what you’re saying is you don’t believe in a mythology of self, a mythology of you. You just see yourself as real.

Arturo Lanz

Yeah, yeah.

Emma Warren

Interesting. That’s quite strong. It’s very easy to get caught up in an idea of what people think of you, rather than what you think of yourself.

Arturo Lanz

I don’t care what people think about me.

Emma Warren

That’s a precondition for creativity perhaps. So, perhaps we should hear another piece of music. Then we should see what you guys would like to ask.

(music: Esplendor Geométrico — unknown / applause)

I definitely got that zoning-out thing there. Judging by everyone else there I think quite a few people did too. So, questions. Can we get the radio mic out? Who’s going first?

Audience Member

You said you live in Beijing now. Did that change your music in any way?

Arturo Lanz

Not really. Maybe yes without me realising. There’s no influence from the place you live, I think.

Emma Warren

This is an interesting thing, actually. I’ve heard you say you’re not really influenced by anything. Is that the way you prefer to operate, to not really recognize influences, and instead just to do it less consciously?

Arturo Lanz

Maybe I’m influenced but I don’t realize. But no, I don’t think living in Beijing… it’s influencing my life, of course, but I think in Madrid maybe I’d do the same music. It’s not important, the place. It’s inner space.

Emma Warren

OK, so you make music from an inner space rather than an external space. But do cities sound different? Does Beijing sound different from Madrid?

Arturo Lanz

Yes, of course. They sound very, very different.

Emma Warren

Can you describe the difference?

Arturo Lanz

The sound in Beijing, you can listen to the sound of the people 24 hours a day. The scream, the traffic. You have not any place, only in your home that’s quiet. There’s a lot of noise. Madrid, no, but Beijing is different. In Madrid you can go to place where nobody else is there. But in China, Beijing, it’s impossible.

Emma Warren

I’ve noticed in Madrid a lot of bird song. A lot of bird song in the city. You don’t have too much of that in central London. Lots of pigeons.

Arturo Lanz

The pigeons are totally dead from the pollution.

Emma Warren

The pigeons seem to be the only things that survived in London. Everything else is gone.

Arturo Lanz

In Beijing, 75 percent of the days, it would be impossible to go out in Europe. 75 percent of the days in Beijing you would have to stay at home in Europe.

Emma Warren

You can’t go in the streets?

Arturo Lanz

It’s impossible because of the pollution. With this level of pollution in Madrid, they’d close the streets.

Emma Warren

Seventy-five percent of days. So how do you get to work?

Arturo Lanz

[shrugs] The people are very strong there. [laughter]

Emma Warren

The Chinese constitution wins out. Another question.

Audience Member

It seems like you make a lot of music, you were saying you make it every day. Do you pick what you want to put out? You have so much to choose from. Do you kinda see what works together? I’m curious how you pick what will go on the record.

Arturo Lanz

It’s not me, it’s my friends. I send the tracks to them and then they choose the tracks that are best for them.

Audience Member

Do you send them everything or a favorite?

Arturo Lanz

Everything.

Audience Member

So how much is everything?

Arturo Lanz

Everything I like; everything I like. Anything where I can stand 20 or 30 minutes with this music. Then I send it to them, they put the name of the track and they choose the best.

Audience Member

Do they pick the art as well?

Arturo Lanz

Yes.

Audience Member

Must be good friends. [laughter]

Emma Warren

It’s a very different way of working, isn’t it, to just literally strip out every other element — the naming of the tracks, the artwork, the selection of the tracks — all of that you’re not interested in, just the sound.

Arturo Lanz

Yes.

Emma Warren

Wow. I don’t think I’ve come across anyone else who works in the same way. Usually, artists are involved in the other side of it. I think it’s fascinating.

Arturo Lanz

I’m not interested in that, only in the moment I do the music. The rest is not important. If it were not for the people who compile the CD, all the CDs, if not for them I wouldn’t have any music in the market. Because I don’t need to do this. [holding CD]

Emma Warren

How does it feel when you get that back? To you, your music is tens of tracks, 20s of tracks, 100s of tracks on your computer. You send stuff off and it comes back like this with track names and selection. How do you feel about your music when you see it represented to you like this?

Arturo Lanz

Sometimes I say [looks at CD] “What is the track ’Presíon’?” I don’t know. “Cada Día Más”? [shrugs] “Luz De Socorro”? I have no idea. But it’s OK because it’s very good for the ego. To [bring] down the ego, you know? And you know, the photos are nice. [laughter / applause]

Emma Warren

You might not be a perfectionist but you are absolutely a purist. Next question.

Audience Member

How long normally does a track have? How many minutes? Do you think about that?

Arturo Lanz

No, I don’t think about it because this CD, one track is five minutes 45, but maybe it’s 12 minutes. The people cut.

Audience Member

You don’t think about arrangement? Just bounce 30 minutes of music, send it to them and they just cut the part they like?

Arturo Lanz

Yes.

Audience Member

And when you are searching for samples on YouTube, you search them randomly?

Arturo Lanz

Yes.

Audience Member

You don’t have a subject? Are you just seeing random YouTube videos and saying, “OK, I like this, I like this”?

Arturo Lanz

No, for example, I’ll look for “woman screaming.” Or “Japanese speeches.” And then this is okay for this track. If not this track, maybe another one. Any track where you can put the voices that you find on YouTube that’s very nice in the sound.

Audience Member

You only search for voices on YouTube?

Arturo Lanz

Yes.

Audience Member

Normally your tracks, you don’t know how many minutes you...

Arturo Lanz

No, because I sample them with a sampler. I use YouTube, then I put in the sampler and then I repeat.

Audience Member

And the final track, when you send to the people, how many minutes?

Arturo Lanz

It depends, around 12, 13, 20.

Audience Member

They just cut whatever they want?

Arturo Lanz

[nods] And another thing is, I do a track, then I cut a wave of the track myself, then I put in a loop, then I repeat for another 40 minutes. Then it’s 20 minutes and I choose one very short loop in the wave and then I repeat again. This is very repetitive because it’s a repetition of the repetition. It’s very good.

Emma Warren

So this will be the basis of a new track?

Arturo Lanz

Yes.

Audience Member

You said you work in an embassy in Beijing. How do you manage that dual life, to make the music work and the work in the embassy, put it all together and still be as energetic as you are?

Arturo Lanz

I have to work and my position in the embassy is like a diplomat. My work is there very silly work, it’s not very difficult. Then two Sundays ago I did a marathon ’cause I like to run, I like to bike. Sixty percent of my life is running and the bike, ten percent is music. The rest is staying in the office and with my children. But now the most important thing is running.

Emma Warren

But running is also very meditative, isn’t it? Talking about running a marathon, when you’re running with other people, something happens to heart rate and blood pressure where you can synchronise with other people.

Arturo Lanz

Right now every day I run around 15km.

Emma Warren

Wow. You don’t mess about, do you? [laughter]

Arturo Lanz

And it’s very good for music, very repetitive. The rhythm of the breath is like a concert.

Emma Warren

Do you mean the sound of yourself running is like music to you? Or does it help you make music when you get home?

Arturo Lanz

Yeah. It’s better when you don’t think when you’re running, only listening to your breath.

Audience Member

Do you listen to anything when you’re running?

Arturo Lanz

No.

Audience Member

You’re talking about repetitive music. Do you try to go to some other time signatures rather than just 4/4 or eight-beat? Do you go five beats or seven beats?

Arturo Lanz

No, I don’t think about it. You are from...?

Audience Member

India.

Arturo Lanz

Now, I like a lot of Indian music, for example. I hear a lot of this kind of thing. Can I...?

(music: unknown)

Audience Member

This is the mantra of the nation.

Arturo Lanz

This is 22 minutes and for me it’s perfect, this kind of thing, very repetitive. Now this is my influence.

Audience Member

The word repetition features a lot in your expression. It seems like you’re saying that life itself brings about a lot of repetitive movements and thoughts and arrangements in life. So you’re trying to perceive life as such and then you’re trying to go slightly beyond what everybody perceives to say, “There’s even more if you take time to think about life.” That’s my analysis of your music. Can you confirm that?

Arturo Lanz

Yeah, that’s right. The repetitive way of doing things, there’s a moment when your mind is totally empty and you realize that something is no longer repetitive. [laughs]

Audience Member

Actually, you’re right. What makes music interesting is certain parts, either rhythmically, or a motif repeats, or a tune that constantly repeats and then it’s harmonised at some point to make the arrangement more interesting. I do agree to you.

Emma Warren

Thank you. Do we have any more questions?

Audience Member

You said you don’t see your music as aggressive, maybe because you don’t make it in an aggressive state. But maybe it’s the tones and the sounds people that would see as aggressive. Is there any music out there that you do see as aggressive? Even if it’s not something that traditionally aggressive to most people, what sounds offensive to you? What is there about music that you just can’t stand? What do you hate about some music?

Arturo Lanz

I don’t hate any kind of music, but I don’t like the music with aggressive messages against things. Before, yes, when I was listening, it was very good, but not now. For example, these Nazi groups are awful. This music with racist messages. It doesn’t matter about the music. The music is okay, but the message... It’s very dangerous to deliver a message in a song. Even if it’s for peace or it’s for hate. To give a message, the people who give this message, who are they? A magician? Nothing is special. No one is special. Who are these people who sing about war? Who are the Beatles? Who is John Lennon?

Audience Member

Why should you listen to them?

Arturo Lanz

It’s dangerous for me to give a message with music.

Emma Warren

Have you always felt that way? Have you been that way for a long time?

Arturo Lanz

Yes, a long time. Around 20 or 25 years.

Emma Warren

Do we have any final questions? No. Well, before we go, I think perhaps could you play us one more snippet from your new album? We’re going to be hearing you play live tonight, isn’t it? Do you do any preparations before your live shows? You just go and feel the power.

Arturo Lanz

No preparation. Saverio does, but not me.

(music: Esplendor Geométrico — unknown / applause)