Bernie Worrell
Bernie Worrell first came to prominence as a founding member and musical director of Parliament-Funkadelic, radically charting the course of emerging keyboard technology during the golden age of synthesis. After departing Parliament-Funkadelic, Worrell resurfaced with the revamped Talking Heads lineup for several albums. Worrell’s colorings, this time delivered via new digital keyboards, were central to the recasting of group leader David Byrne’s musical ideas through African rhythms. In the years since he left Talking Heads, Worrell has been a phenomenally prolific studio musician, contributing to projects by the likes of Bill Laswell, Keith Richards, the Pretenders, and Deee-Lite. At the same time, he’s among the most-sampled musicians ever, with Digital Underground, De La Soul, Dr. Dre, Snoop Dogg, Ice Cube, and countless others having acknowledged his timeless grooves by building their tunes around his signature riffs.
In his 2013 Red Bull Music Academy lecture, P-Funk’s synthesizer wizard sits on the couch – and behind the Hammond – to discuss his biggest records with Parliament-Funkadelic, the Talking Heads, and more.
Hosted by Torsten Schmidt Please give a very, very warm hand and a very warm welcome to a man without
whom neither, I’d say, Derrick May, Dr. Dre, or Dorian Concept would do
what they do today. So please, Mr. Bernie
Worrell.[applause] You have been born not too far away from here, right? Bernie Worrell Jersey. Torsten Schmidt Yeah. So what was Jersey like back then? Was it all Sopranos already? Bernie Worrell Probably so. Maybe more so, when it was the real godfathers. Torsten Schmidt So what sort of household did you grow up in? What were your parents doing? Bernie Worrell OK. [laughs] My father was a truck driver, ran his own business. As my
mother would say, he was in the streets. My mother, church-going lady. Sang in
the choir. She didn’t believe in any one set denomination, or religion. Her
friends used to say, “Why’re you going to the Catholic church?” She was
Baptist, but she’d go wherever she wanted. She said: “There’s one God,” and no
one’s gonna tell her where, or dictate, where she wants to go worship. I
guess, that’s where I get my freedom, because don’t tell me what I’m gonna do;
I’ll do the opposite. I will be free. And that’s how I play. I mix all genres
of music. Torsten Schmidt I understand in the Baptist church, the music is kind of different than in the
Catholic church, right? Bernie Worrell Yes, but it’s all music. And it could be related. Torsten Schmidt So, I don’t know whether we start the whole thing already, but you speak to a
lot of modern-day techno, or R&B, or whatever, producers, and they would
go, “Hey, of course, it all goes back to church music in the end.” Bernie Worrell OK. Which goes back to Africa, the chants, or the plantation. My thing is:
everything is related. Torsten Schmidt When did you learn first about those sort of relations, and when did you
realise, “Hang on, there’s something similar here going on.” I mean, you
learned to play really, really early, right? Bernie Worrell I don’t deal with realization. I was born with perfect pitch, so anything I
hear I can play. Whatever the gift God gave me, I don’t sit and decipher; I
just do it. And the way I hear - everyone has a different way of hearing - so
the way I hear, I can hear the relationships. I can hear the same scale or
mode in a classical piece, you can find the same mode in a gospel hymn. Same
mode in a Indian raga, same mode in a Irish ditty, same mode in a Scottish
ditty, or whatever you wanna call it. Same mode in Latin music, African. It’s
all related. It’s how you hear it. And then on hearing and recognising, “Oh,
yeah. I heard that in a pop song.” Same chord progression, you know?
Everything is related. I just happen to be able to hear that. Torsten Schmidt And also perfect pitch is something that happens inside of you as well. I
mean, it stays with you even after five decades of touring and probably not
hearing that proper anymore, right? Bernie Worrell Yes, the only thing nowadays, I say the last couple two or three years, other
people still test me, because they wonder how do I do that. Nowadays, I go off
by only a half-step. Most of the time it’s on, but when it’s off, it’s just by
a half-step. So I can tell the pitch of feedback. Some of the monitor
engineers, if you don’t have your own monitor man on the road, you go through
different crap. Nothing against you guys, but some of the youngsters don’t
know how to tune out or find the frequency of your microphone from the
feedback doing sound check, and I’ll hum it when it happens. First of all, I
have hearing loss, and I can’t take certain frequencies nowadays, but I can
hum it. I say, “It’s here!” [hums] And I don’t understand how they can’t
hear that. The high ones especially, or any of them. I’ll hum it through the
mic, which is feeding back. “It’s right here!” Then I’ll play it on the
keyboard. “It’s this note. Find it!” Anyway... Torsten Schmidt So you’re like a modern-day funk Beethoven then, in a way. Bernie Worrell Whatever, I don’t deal with labels. That’s another thing: labels. Torsten Schmidt Can you take us back to Plainfield, New Jersey, a little bit and tell us who
these folks Billy Nelson and Eddie Hazel were. Bernie Worrell Ghetto geniuses from the projects. Who were given a gift and God brought it
all together. Torsten Schmidt What was their gift? Bernie Worrell Music. [laughs] Guitarist. Bass player. George
Clinton. Everyone
here has a gift. See, I’m not much of a word guy. Torsten Schmidt Well, we’ll get some of your fingers involved in a little bit. Bernie Worrell I speak by playing. Just wanna let y’all know that I’m just... Short
responses, and that’s that. Torsten Schmidt That’s totally fine. Everyone in here has been on this couch yesterday, so
they know you’re playing. They sympathize. Bernie Worrell I get tongue-tied. Torsten Schmidt We understand that there was a certain barbershop involved as well, right
around that time. What was going on there? Bernie Worrell Anything and everything. That’s where I first met George Clinton. When my
family first moved to Plainfield from Long Branch. I was born in Long Branch,
New Jersey, which is down by the shore. We moved to Plainfield and the word is
that people heard that this so-called genius or whatever, somebody moved to
town. Torsten Schmidt How old were you back then? Bernie Worrell I was 8-years-old. Torsten Schmidt And you’ve been playing the piano for how long? Bernie Worrell At that time, five years. I started when I was 3 1/2. I’m classically trained
- my first concert was at 4-years-old. I wrote a piano concerto at 8-years-old
and performed three concertos with part of the Washington Symphony and
Plainfield Symphony Orchestra at 10-years-old. And then private lessons and
all that stuff. Torsten Schmidt What were you playing? Like, Schubert and Mozart and... Bernie Worrell Schubert, Mozart, Beethoven, Bach, Chopin, Debussy and Ravel. Torsten Schmidt Do you still do some of that for your own leisure now and then? Bernie Worrell Do I play it? No. Torsten Schmidt You passed that. Bernie Worrell Not passed that. I play, when I’m playing live, I mix it. I mix musics. I
don’t stick to one thing. I guess, I still have it in my head. They used to
put classical music on a pedestal. And I don’t like that. So I took it down.
My way. Because nothing is above anything. Everything is music, everything is
related. So if you’re gonna put something, “Oh, this is this,” I don’t think
so. Music is music. It depends on the person, the artist, whether they be an
instrumentalist, vocalist, composer. Depends on the person, how they hear it.
And what you do with your gift and your talent. In my opinion. Torsten Schmidt At that time, your mom wanted you to be a professional concert pianist, right? Bernie Worrell Right, that’s why, another reason... No, I don’t do what I’m told. Torsten Schmidt From what we hear, something else happened around that time, and I’m not sure
whether we get the feed here... [technical problems ensue] It’s like in
chemical lessons at school. It all worked fine when we tried this earlier. Bernie Worrell It’s like something that has stuck with me through the years since college
days. In a harmony class, our teacher, our professor, first of all, you have
to learn all the rules. You learn your harmony and theory and the basics. And
after you’ve done all that, you break the rules. You have to learn the basics
first and see how things work. Then throw that out and do what... that’s your
guideline. But after that, you break it. Or however you wanna put it. Torsten Schmidt Hmm, well, apparently the server’s down. So that’s the great thing about
modern cloud computing. Bernie Worrell One of my lead guitarists, band leaders in one of my groups, he knows how I
feel about stuff - this is y’all’s generation - he knows how I feel about
stuff. He calls it “wreck-nology.” That’s... Torsten Schmidt What we were going to play, to create for your theatrical effect, was a young
Elvis Presley on the Ed Sullivan show, performing a song called “Teddy Ready.” Bernie Worrell “Teddy Ready”? Torsten Schmidt I heard it was like the first time that Elvis was on the Ed
Sullivan show. And
you were on record, like, 30 years ago, saying: “Oh, all of a sudden I knew
what all of the kids were into,” and that was a different energy. And
apparently that led you astray, back from path of the concert pianist. Bernie Worrell: From this “Teddy Ready”? Torsten Schmidt Just seeing Elvis on television and that stuff. Bernie Worrell That wasn’t Elvis, it was The Beatles on Ed Sullivan. And to me, they mixed
all genres, including instrumentation. Mr. Martin, who’s coupled with them, I
mean, that stuff was different. It opened a whole new world. Torsten Schmidt You mean the producer? Bernie Worrell Yes, George Martin, yes. Torsten Schmidt Let’s try whether the audio works. ‘Cause this is a track that you supposedly
were involved as well. (music: Chubby & the Turnpikes - “I Know the Inside Story”) Bernie Worrell [looks pleasantly surprised] Where’d you get that? Torsten Schmidt We could play this in its entirety because it’s only two minutes and 30 [seconds] long.
So, who were The Tavares, or
Chubby & The Turnpikes? Bernie Worrell Who were they? Torsten Schmidt Yeah. Bernie Worrell Vocal group from Providence, Rhode Island. A black Portuguese family,
brothers, who were known as Chubby & The Turnpikes when I was in college
up at the conservatory in Boston. And their home base was Jim Nance, who was a
Boston Patriots fullback at the time. He had a nightclub there. And when I was
in college, I was playing in nightclubs. Yeah. [laughs] Torsten Schmidt There’s a lot of country songs about playing in nightclubs, as well. Bernie Worrell I met them and I became their bandleader and that was part of my rebel part of
me, of doing something else besides classical music. And I guess rebelling
against my mom and stuff. Torsten Schmidt It’s kind of crazy to imagine that was rebellious, as well. ‘Cause I mean, it
just sounds so harmonious and warming and welcoming. Bernie Worrell The playing, that wasn’t rebellious. Just the fact that I was playing in clubs
at night and not strictly in school and whatnot. “Don’t keep me in! Don’t
fence me in!” Torsten Schmidt I can see that. Bernie Worrell You know the group, that’s Tavares now... Torsten Schmidt Did you play on any of the Chubby & The Turnpikes stuff that was recorded
after Capitol? Bernie Worrell After Capitol, no. Torsten Schmidt Because that’s the other thing, when you go through things that you’re
associated with, like a lot of the actual factual information out there is
really scarce. Sometimes it’s really hard to figure out, like, “Did he play on
that or not?” And you really have to listen, and then sometimes you hear like,
“Oh, yeah. Yeah, that’s him.” Even though it’s a lot harder in those days.
Like, when you were breaking away from the conservatory, who were your
keyboard heroes? What were the players that you looked up to for style? Bernie Worrell I didn’t look up to them, I was influenced. No one should look up to anybody.
What’s that mean? OK, Ray Charles, Keith Emerson, Thelonious Monk, Herbie
Hancock. Victor Borge, he was
this Danish keyboardist who’s one of my favorite, my antics on-stage now,
where I get a lot of my stuff from, because he’d be a serious classical piece
and then fall off the bench. Just stuff. And that’s my other way of... I
guess... so serious. Have some fun. Put some humor into it. That’s what I like
to do. I play, ‘Nah nah nah nah’, in the middle of a classical piece. I’ll do
it on purpose, just to, “Man, wow, where’d that come from?” Make you think.
“Don’t be so uptight, we have a song now. If you want things to be alright,
stop being so uptight and move on.” Part of the uptightness in you, if you
don’t let it go, you’re gonna be... It’s like a P-Funk song: “Free your ass
and your mind will follow.” Breathe. Torsten Schmidt To give you a little bit of a breather, here is another song. (music: Maxine Brown - “Oh No, Not My Baby”) Torsten Schmidt So whose voice is this we’re listening to there? Bernie Worrell Maxine Brown.
Famous R&B vocalist, who, I became her musical director after right out of
college. [laughs] Yeah. Torsten Schmidt I want to hear the plethora of stories that go into that little... [imitates
Worrell’s laugh] Bernie Worrell [laughs] Torsten Schmidt What does the work of a musical director consist of, so that we understand? Bernie Worrell It’s the bandleader. I would audition different guitarists and drummers that
would come and go, arrange the music, teach her songs to the different band
members. Because, you know, people would come and go, that’s another pain.
Because once you get used to somebody and, you know, the chemistry was there,
then all of a sudden the drummer leaves, or the guitarist, and you got to
start all over again. Torsten Schmidt How many gigs would you play during an average month at that time? Bernie Worrell That would depend on how many bookings that her agency was getting. Torsten Schmidt But was it more like steady club gigs, or were you touring? Bernie Worrell Um... we did a Sam & Dave tour, which was another R&B vocal duet. We
did a lot of dates with Chuck Jackson, who was another R&B, male, famous
vocalist. Some gigs with Wilson Pickett. But there wasn’t a lot of tours, so
to speak, but just club dates. Never did West Coast. She’s mostly Midwest and
East Coast when I was with her. Torsten Schmidt I guess, going to the South wasn’t really that popular around that time,
right? Bernie Worrell Not around that time. Torsten Schmidt You played gigs in Boston with young Tammy
Terrell as well,
right? Bernie Worrell [laughs] Yes, she was known as Tammy Montgomery back then. Yeah, I backed up
after Tavares I was the organist in a trio at Basin Street South, which is a
club in Boston where, every weekend there’d be a different artist, vocalist,
that would come in. And some comedians. We were the house band and there was
like a revue. You had your dancers, then a comedian, then the vocalist. So I
played behind Tommy Hunt, Freddy Scott, Tammy Terrell, who I met through Laura
Falama. Pigmeat Markham, Moms Mabley. You might know these people. I don’t know if the
kids would. They were famous black comedians back in the day. Dionne Warwick.
Another art form is accompanying. I used to accompany all the opera vocalists,
the opera students, in their lessons and their promotional recital. So, to
accompany somebody, that’s another art form besides, you know, your solo
stuff. So the interplay between accompanying and knowing when to push, pull
back, lay back, listening, ‘cause you have to listen to the inflections of
their vocal. When they’re breathing, when to support, when to pull back, when
to just lay there, when to spike it up a little bit. Torsten Schmidt A lot of these people have gone on and had great careers and with great
careers, even greater egos, but I guess at that time it’s just crazy for us to
hear that a lot of those people were on the same circuit, and probably in a
not-as-privileged position. And I want to fact-check something else: was one
of them really, like, a ‘Miss Tan Boston’? Is that what it was called? Bernie Worrell Oh yeah, who was that? Frowly Holiday? Torsten Schmidt But it just seems outrageous to us now, that it would be, like, “Tan?” I mean,
that was like a really different climate for you to work in then, I guess,
walking around now, right? Bernie Worrell Um. I’m not sure what you’re... Torsten Schmidt What was the tan referring to? Bernie Worrell I guess, they didn’t want to say black. It’s like, in the black neighborhood
back then, a light-skinned black person was called, when there’d be dissension
or people talking about each other, a light-skinned black person would be
called “high yellow,” or mulatto. There was racism within the race. So... In
Boston, with all the stuff that was going on, you say “Miss Tan Boston,”
instead of, just saying that she’s black. Or “Redbone,” that’s another term. Torsten Schmidt How was Detroit different to Boston? Bernie Worrell Detroit? Crazy. Torsten Schmidt I mean, this was before all, when it was still a city, right? Bernie Worrell Yeah. I didn’t like Detroit that much. George Clinton and I, we moved to Canada,
Toronto. We used to hang out with, we all played together with Mitch Ryder
& The Detroit Wheels, Ted Nugent. We did a lot of Funkadelic, we used to open for Ted on the
festivals. For me, the only thing was Motown. I marveled at, when I first saw
the Motown studios, they were houses. And all this great music came from, out
of those buildings. Torsten Schmidt But having said that, the main building could easily fit into this room,
right? Bernie Worrell Yeah, right. I mean, it was obscene. Wow. That sign. Hitsville USA. Houses.
It’s phenomenal. Torsten Schmidt Did you do any session work there before you worked with George? Bernie Worrell No, but while with P-Funk, I’m playing on a lot of... See, I don’t talk about
myself. Torsten Schmidt You’re doing good, you’re doing good. Bernie Worrell I’m playing on a lot of Holland-Dozier-Holland,
which was Invictus Records, after they left Barry Gordy. I’m playing on
Chairmen Of The Board’s hits, The Honeycombs, Freda Payne’s “Band of Gold,”
lots of stuff. You probably got it. And also Johnny Taylor’s two-million
seller. Me and Glen Goins and
Bootsy Collins,
we’re playing on “Disco Lady.” We actually wrote the song, which they didn’t
give us credit for. He had a two-million seller and we got a $500 bonus and
session fee. I don’t wanna. ‘Cause that shit makes me... Excuse me. Anyway. Torsten Schmidt If it stinks, you need to call it out. Well, let’s probably move to something
merrier. (music: Parliament - “Flash Light”) Are the fingers getting itchy when you hear that? Bernie Worrell No, that’s done. Torsten Schmidt So what have you been listening to? Bernie Worrell I don’t listen to... When I listen to, I listen to reggae, Marley, man,
Jamaica. Or college stations, or public radio. Torsten Schmidt So, can you tell us a little more about the story behind that song and what
you’re doing in it, and all that? Bernie Worrell Uh, I’m known for layering. So... Torsten Schmidt I mean, if the trainspotters are right and one watches the videos of you
playing closely, you do play, like, multiple things at the same time, or let’s
say a bass note is not always just the root note but you do octaves of it and
stuff as well, right? Bernie Worrell Well, this track, Bootsy had the track with just guitar and drums. And he
didn’t want the track, so he brought it to George and said: “Here’s a groove.”
So all there was was a drumbeat, rhythm guitar, and everything else besides
the vocals, everything else is me. So I laid the Moog synthesizer, the
Minimoog. The old one, not the
new stuff. The old one, which is... I told Bob
Moog, they sent one of
his technicians, the new stuff still isn’t as fat, got the meat, like the old
ones. So that’s why I like the vintage stuff. And it’s been proven, a lot of
people, once they hear, though, they say: “You’re right.” So that’s another
thing I don’t understand about they make the new models coming up, but why not
keep the guts of its predecessor, with all the new gadgets and whatnot? It
looks pretty and everything, but it doesn’t sound the same. Well, whoopy-doo,
what’s that about? So anyway, I laid the bass line. There’s three Moog’s:
there’s the bass line, then there’s the little cartoony one, I’m having fun.
It’s a conversation, that’s how I speak. And then there’s a string ensemble. Torsten Schmidt That was an ARP, right? Bernie Worrell ARP String Ensemble. I just laid
one track at a time, and sometimes I’ll listen to the preceding track while
I’m overdubbing a new track. Sometimes I’ll say, “No,” before I tell everybody
- like the engineers - I just wanted to see, not hearing what I did before,
and playing, if it would all fit, and it everytime... everything is related.
So I could hear the track and hear what I’m doing and just playing, or not
hear it, and it will still fit, it’ll be related. And I do that with all the
stuff I’ve done over the years. Torsten Schmidt How did you deal with, like, you know, fans expecting that song live and then
trying to duplicate that on the road? I mean, you must’ve had at least four
different roadies to carry all that stuff. Bernie Worrell Yeah, I didn’t do it. [laughs] Yeah, well, the Mothership
Tour, we
had three tour buses, three semis, and... Torsten Schmidt You even toured with what, Clavinets, the Yamaha
CP? Bernie Worrell Yamaha electric Baby Grand,
Minimoog, Hammond organ, ARP Pro Soloist.
Pedal board. Torsten Schmidt A CS-80 was amongst that, as
well? Bernie Worrell Yeah, the Yamaha. Torsten Schmidt But I mean, that alone weighs, like, what? 250 kilos or something? Bernie Worrell Yeah, well, I didn’t lift it. Torsten Schmidt And this little thing as well? Bernie Worrell But that’s what they’re paid to do! Torsten Schmidt People are keeping fit. And how many trailers did you have for all the
outfits, then? Bernie Worrell Well, there was about three, like I said, three semis. The Mothership. Torsten Schmidt For someone who’s not that initiated, can you break down what the difference
between all these different project, like the Mothership,
Parliament, Funkadelic, and all
these different entities were. ‘Cause it’s not easy to understand, ‘cause it
seems like it’s all the same people, and they all talk in these codes. Bernie Worrell Well, that was George Clinton’s genius. Yeah, same group of musicians
recording Funkadelic projects and Parliament stuff, and our offshoot groups:
Parlet, Brides of Funkenstein, The Horny
Horns, which was Fred Wesley and Maceo. And solo albums. Bootsy, the
Rubber Band. It was George’s way of tricking the record companies to record
Parliament on this label, Funkadelic on another label, but the companies
didn’t know at the time until it was too late. Same guys. So he made two
monies instead of... [laughs] And then spreading it out, the other offshoot
groups on other labels. Torsten Schmidt And how did the distribution of all that money work within the actual group
when it was coming in? Bernie Worrell You don’t want to know about that. I’m owed a lot of money now, so we
shouldn’t talk about that, because that will bring resentments back and I’ll
go nuts. Torsten Schmidt Alright, so we stay on the yoga path for now, I guess. Bernie Worrell Just like with the, uh, sampling. Torsten Schmidt We might get to that in a minute then. What was your role in that? Did you
have designated roles, or did the roles change in the different bands? Bernie Worrell I was the music director and kept things in order. You’re mentioning Eddie
Hazel and Billy, original Funkadelic. They were from the street, you know, but
had this feel and I joined the group after being on the road with Maxine
Brown. I moved to Detroit after getting a phone call from George, ‘cause back
in the day he had said when he was able to afford me, he’d make a call. This
was years later. I was in Bermuda with Maxine. Torsten Schmidt It could be worse than being in Bermuda with her. Were you recording down
there? Bernie Worrell No, she opened for Jimmy Smith. I forget the club. And management said: “I got
a call from a George Clinton, wanting to have a meeting at the Apollo.” I
said: “OK, let’s see what he wants.” Calls back and says: “George says he’s
ready.” He had moved everyone from Jersey to Detroit, and Maxine’s career was
on the down end. So, moved from Jersey to Detroit and the rest is history. But
what was the question? [laughs] Torsten Schmidt It was more like where you sat, or whether there were any defined roles
between the different projects or whether it was just the same people... Bernie Worrell Uh, yeah, I was the musical director and kept the music together, arranging
all the different projects, putting - along with George - putting different
combinations of musicians for this song, or this song. “This one would be good
on bass for this.” Stuff like that. And making sure their pitch was correct.
Because like I said, they were from the [streets]. I had to tighten stuff up,
bring some order into the chaos. But chaos is good, too. Torsten Schmidt Did you have different visions for the different projects when they had a
different name? Bernie Worrell I didn’t. That deals with the words and stuff. George’s conceptions. I deal
with the music. Torsten Schmidt Let’s probably play a little bit of music right here. Bernie Worrell He’s a conceptualist, I play. Torsten Schmidt How about this one? (music: Funkadelic – “A Joyful Process”) Bernie Worrell [comments over music] That’s classic. That’s how my mind thinks. Start out
with... it’s a hymn. [sings] “Jesus loves me...” Go from there into... it’s
coming up. Hit me! [song starts to pick up] This was my first real string arrangements. I arranged real strings and horns. [applause] Torsten Schmidt It makes an awful lot of sense when you say that you wrote strings and stuff
as well because they sound a lot more, I’d say, like a Moog than a Ravel
piece. How did the players react to that when they had to play that? Can you
remember? Bernie Worrell [laughs] Everyone came up and... I was nervous. That was my first attempt at
arranging strings and horns. I’ve had all the classes in college, but, um...
Everyone came up afterwards and said, shake my hand, “Nice, nice, nice.” It
was different for them. “Put some funk underneath that shit.” See what I’m
saying? The mix, again, I just think they were released from their... Torsten Schmidt Did they find it hard to play? Because some of the things clearly emulates
what you can do with, like, your pitch-bend... Bernie Worrell Yes, but if you can play, you can play, you can play what’s written. And
loosen them up and everyone learns, everyone benefits. You mentioned Marcus
Belgrave, and Fred Wesley and Maceo, they said, and I didn’t know until years
later, that they said: “Here comes Bernie with his horn charts.” Because I
arranged from what’s in my head, from keyboardist. But I know the range of
each horn. French horns or, you know, cello, or whatever. I just play what I
hear, or write what I hear. I guess, I didn’t know it at the time, but maybe
it was unconventional, I don’t know. But I had the pleasure of having Maceo
Parker, Fred Wesley from James Brown, and the Brecker
Brothers,
Michael and Randy. And Rick, he’s a trumpeter’s trumpeter, from the group
Chase, all in one session. The session was in New York and a few years ago I
ran into, let’s see, which one passed? Randy, I think. Or Michael. One of the
Brecker brothers is still living, and he said, you know, my favorite session
is that session of your arrangement, which was “Let Me Get the Handcuffs Off
You,” a P-Funk song. “Gotta take my handcuffs off your mama’s”-something, and
that was his favorite session. I was nervous about that, but Randy and Michael
Brecker playing my charts, along with Fred, that was... Torsten Schmidt Was it kind of hard for them? Because a lot of the guys you mentioned are,
like, distinguished jazz cats, and Fred Wesley talks about this quite a lot,
how he brought jazz into the funk, and stuff. And you coming from this other
world, the more classical world, in a way. Bernie Worrell That’s what I mean. Everything’s related. He brought it together. Things
happen for a reason. That showed everyone: “See? This is from there, this is
from here, we take some from here, some from there,” and we make a stew. Soup. Torsten Schmidt Well, on that note, I think it’s about time we take it to church here. (music: Parliament - “Mothership Connection”/ applause) There’s the odd recognizable bit in there that some of us may have heard
before. We got a few very brave people to lift this monster out of the
basement [referring to the Hammond organ on one side of the couch]. Maybe
this is a good time to use it to show us what you actually did there. Would that
be possible? Bernie Worrell If I can remember what I played. I’ll just do another thing. Torsten Schmidt Shall I give you another thing and you just take to it? Bernie Worrell No, ‘cause whatever it is I deal with sound, so a piece of music will be one
way on a baby grand; I’ll play the same piece on a Hammond, it’ll be
different. I play the same piece on an electric piano, it’ll be different. I
play the same piece on a synth, it’ll be different. The sound effects what I
do. Same piece, but it’ll be different. Torsten Schmidt How about this? I give you another piece and maybe you see what you’re feeling
about that. Bernie Worrell Or I could do with this one, whatever you want. Torsten Schmidt You start with this one, just give me the sign. [Worrell moves to the organ and plays a long, improvisational sequence that
blends big dynamic moments with nursery rhymes and other musical references,
ending with snatches of “Let It Be” and “The Wind Cries Mary.” Worrell goes
back to the couch and sits down / applause] Right. Shall we give your fingers a little breather? Yeah, let’s rest them for
a bit. And, at special request of the honorary Chairman
Mao, here is another
track. And maybe if you feel like it at some stage, maybe you wanna... (music: Funkadelic - “Atmosphere”
/ Worrell gets up after a few moments and begins to play along on the organ /
goes back to the couch and listens as the song continues and ends / applause) Torsten Schmidt Is there anything that you can recall from that session? Bernie Worrell The notes. When I hear it now. Eddie Hazel’s one of my favorite guitarists.
Very sensitive. We’d just go in and hit it. Hit it and quit it. Torsten Schmidt The sensitivity is something that’s pretty striking in there, because I think
any present-day mastering or recording engineer would ruin this piece, ‘cause
the dynamics are way too high. I mean, the amplitude in that must be, what,
60db or something, and the fadeout at the end was almost a minute. Bernie Worrell You have to be sensitive, man. You know, you must touch your right, man. Torsten Schmidt You’re on record saying that one of your merriest memories was selling out the
L.A. Forum. What was that show like? Bernie Worrell It was the landing of the Mothership. It was spectacular. And you know, we
didn’t think of being stars, or whatever that means. We were just funkin’
around for fun. If you can’t have fun, we just... playing for the people, for
ourselves, and no one expected a hit record or never knew “Flashlight” was
going to be a hit. We didn’t go in to record to make a hit. Just go in and
playin’. So, riding in the limos and all that, coming back from sound check,
George and I were in, I looked at him and said, there was just a sea of cars
coming from L.A. out to the Forum, it was scary. I looked at him and said:
“See what you started?” He looked at me and said: “No, see what you started!” Torsten Schmidt Well, he gave you the call, so you can blame it on him. Bernie Worrell Well, he gave us the call. Torsten Schmidt But I mean, there’s also other moments when you, for example, played Madison
Square Garden and your gear doesn’t show up. Bernie Worrell Yeah, that was stupid. That has to do with management, and probably somebody
else George didn’t pay. Torsten Schmidt So what did you do? Bernie Worrell That’s not on me, it’s on them. Torsten Schmidt No, I mean what did you play on that night? Bernie Worrell I don’t remember. Something. That’s years ago, man. What day is it today? Torsten Schmidt That’s a good question, actually. Bernie Worrell People come up, say: “Remember you took my picture with you ten years ago,” and
I say, “No. I don’t.” Been there, done that. Next. See, I don’t tell with the
past. It’s done. Torsten Schmidt A little bit more of that been there, done that. (music: Funkadelic – “(Not Just) Knee Deep” / applause) What were you just reminiscing about there? Bernie Worrell Philippe Wynne,
the lead vocalist. He just made his entrance from The Spinners, I forgot about
that. Torsten Schmidt Yeah, I guess that one was hard to clear. Or would you just go and incorporate
something that if it happened in a session, or would you have to go back to
other band and then go like, “Hey, we’re using that line, we’re using that
idea, or we’re quoting it.” Bernie Worrell The track was done, and Phillipe had joined P-Funk for a period of time there
and he just came by the studio, said: “Alright, put Phillipe on.” Well, if you
know from The Spinners, he’s ad-libbing. He’d just roll tape. Get that
Phillipe Wynne sound, feel. Man. That one almost brought tears. Anyway. Torsten Schmidt What’s crazy when you know a song mostly by DJs playing, like, a certain
segment of it, or people just sampling it, is that when you go back to the
entire piece, is the mood is so different, and it’s also going to so many
different places over the course of, what is it? Four minutes and 30? It’s
almost mournful, it’s almost a piece of tragedy in there, and gets upbeat
again. Bernie Worrell It’s a journey. It’s a journey. Don’t stay in one place. Torsten Schmidt Who would be directing that in a session, or would you just feed off each
other? Bernie Worrell Just go on the emotion and the arrangements. I would arrange stuff. You go
where it takes you. [laughs] Torsten Schmidt Well, that took you very far. And also I believe now that a few things
hopefully are settled. It still provides you with like a nice pension check
funds, right? With all the people that have sampled that over the years? Bernie Worrell Don’t talk about that. That’s one of the things that’s being worked on now,
haven’t gotten all the sample... Torsten Schmidt Still worked on? Damn! Bernie Worrell I’ll get pissed off. You don’t want me to get mad. [laughter] Torsten Schmidt No, we don’t want that. We don’t want that. We don’t want that at all. Bernie Worrell Except I like getting mad sometimes, but you don’t wanna see that. Torsten Schmidt Well, now it seems we’re on the Internet again. Let’s see whether it’s
actually playing. ‘Cause there’s a little video I’d like to show you to get a
better idea of what things looked like back then. Let’s see if we can make
this work. (video: Funkadelic – Cosmic
Slop / applause ) Yeah, just another day in the city, it seems, huh? So is this what your life
was like every day? Bernie Worrell Is this what my life was like back then? Their life. I had part of it. It
wasn’t wild and crazy like that. I can only speak for myself, the antics and
whatnot. You said my life, it wasn’t that crazy. That’s a bunch of wild and
crazy guys, but we were having fun. My part, I was the nerd. I was the nerd of
the group, so I was more laid back. But I would partake of the antics, fusing
it together with the music. I could tell you wild and crazy, or you could see
yourself from... [laughs] ...let that speak about... George is a
conceptualist. Didn’t necessarily agree with all of his philosophies, but
everything melded together and everything worked, and it was a sign, it was
the times. That’s what it was. That’s what it is. It’s another thing now.
Depending on how you look at things and how, you know, what’s in the mind of
the beholder. Yeah. That was funkadelic for real. Funkadelic psychedelic. Meld
the two together. It is what it is. “Cosmic Slop” is one of the national
anthems. Says what it says: “Cosmic Slop.” [laughs] But at the same time, I
could hear my mother cry, I could hear my mother cry. It’s a piece of history. Torsten Schmidt Fast-forwarding. We’re running a little bit out of time, and there’s a bunch
of things we could touch upon, but you were sort of the more-or-less
unofficial member of another group, and we’d like to hit on that a little bit. Bernie Worrell “Burning Down the House.” (music: Talking Heads - “Burning Down the House”) [comments over music] Another conceptualist. [applause] Torsten Schmidt Both rhythmically and sonically, that’s very different energy now. So what has
happened in the meantime? Bernie Worrell From that until now? Torsten Schmidt No, no, no. Bernie Worrell In between P-Funk and... Well, sonically it’s a little different but the
rhythm was there, because they were... Talking Heads, I didn’t even know who
they were, at first. Talking Heads, when I was approached, said: “Who are
you?” But come to find out later,
David [Byrne], Tina and
Chris used to
sneak into P-Funk shows when they were art students in Providence, Rhode
Island. So I said: “Ah, OK, so...” They knew what was up and they were fans.
And so they bring, integrate, the rhythm and the feel, and mix it. The rhythm
is spare, because that’s Steve Scales playing percussion. Chris Frantz just
keeps a straight beat. The rhythm is around it. The pulse is there, and then
the pulse is there. And Alex Weir from the Brothers Johnson on rhythm guitar. Torsten Schmidt From “Strawberry Letters”? Alright, crazy. Bernie Worrell Nona Hendryx was there, from Labelle, myself, Adrian Belew. So we had all
these entities integrated into the four and enlarged it in there. Torsten Schmidt I was gonna say, when I was a kid and saw Talking Heads on German television,
I didn’t see any of the guys that you just mentioned. Bernie Worrell No, that was before. That was, I guess, in... like I said, I didn’t know who
they were. I got a phone call asking me if I’d be interested. I said: “Well, I
don’t know...” Jerry Harrison, we’re close. And David. And Chris and Tina had sit in on a
couple of shows with my group. So it was a fusion, a fusing of what they did
before, along with the funk. Torsten Schmidt So how did it work? Would you be called in for the recordings and more or less
doing session work? Bernie Worrell What I liked about it is they kind of worked like P-Funk in the studio. We’d
just go in, there’d be some ideas down sometimes, and then other times just a
jam, then other times I’d come in and overdub the parts of a set track. And
live, it’s whatever I wanted to play. They were the students. That’s why they
made the call with Jerry. We just... Torsten Schmidt From the sounds of it, you moved on to a different synthesizer aesthetic as
well. Bernie Worrell Yeah, Jerry had Prophet-5s. And of
course the Clavinet was there. Torsten Schmidt Speaking of the Clavinet, who was first playing that through phasers and
stuff, you or Stevie [Wonder]? Bernie Worrell I don’t know. On the track that you played with the strings, my first string,
everybody thinks it’s Clavinet, but it’s the RMI
piano. And Stevie had
gone to, it’s called Wonderlove Music, music store in Detroit. I had gone the
next day, but they told us at the store: “Stevie was at the store yesterday
and got one,” and I was the second person that got one. So I don’t know. Who
did what first, and “blah blah blah blah.” Who cares? We’re doing it. Torsten Schmidt Right. On that note, maybe a very different... Bernie Worrell Stevie and I were together at a NAMM show. I don’t know if you saw that a few
months ago. There were pictures that were pasted on Facebook, which I don’t
do. Torsten Schmidt You were talking about conceptualists, and you were also instrumental in a
recording with another, different conceptualist, I guess. (music: Fela Kuti - “Army Arrangement”) Seeing that it goes on for another 25 minutes, we might need to do a little
bit of talking over bits of the music. What does that take you back to? Bernie Worrell Torsten Schmidt Where did you record this? Bernie Worrell Uh, it’s a Bill Laswell
production. Torsten Schmidt Who you did a lot of things with as well, right? Bernie Worrell Yes, still do. I keep forgetting... that was Green Point, Brooklyn. When Bill
had the studio over there. There’s a solo piece that’s coming up, with Bill
co-producing. Just myself and a baby grand piano. And Bill’s concept was just
pick some pieces and you just elongate them, just play very slow, and then
he’s adding his, you know, the Laswell touch. What do you call it? Just sounds
and, it’s being funded by the Japanese, but yeah, Fela Kuti. Yeah, another
conceptualist. He and George are... Bill made, not a mistake, but had George
in the studio also and got stuck with the hotel bill and all that. But if you
know George Clinton, then he should’ve known. But the two of them together is
two conceptualists. Torsten Schmidt Yeah, different energy, yeah. I can imagine. Bernie Worrell But again, everything came together. Torsten Schmidt Before we close on something else, I wanted to verify: are there probably any
questions from you guys? There is a mic running around. Audience Member Uh, OK. Bernie Worrell [clears ears] When you see me do this, my high end comes back. Then they
close up again. So, I can hear you. Audience Member I was gonna ask you, I love Funkadelic. I love the Maggot
Brain album, and I
wanna know if you were in the studio when Eddie Hazel did that song, and when
they added the extra guitar parts and all that. And if you remember how that
made you feel after you heard it. Bernie Worrell Yeah, I recorded the original, you know, the arpeggiated... “dah dah dah
dah”... simple, simple song. I played it for the first time in New Orleans a
few days ago with Eric McFadden, guitarist. Because everybody knows I can’t
hear it, or I haven’t played it for, like I said, first time in years, three,
four days ago. Because it brings tears to me. Audience Member I had one more question. There’s a lot of songs where George Clinton does that
song about the “jealous mother of all hoes”. I want to know if that ever got on
your nerves, ‘cause he did that on a lot of songs. Well, not a lot, but he did
that same verse multiple times, like did you ever feel any kind of way hearing
that? With the song that you were doing? Bernie Worrell Did it what? Audience Member Did it ever make you feel any kind of way, like him doing it multiple times? Bernie Worrell No, ‘cause like I said, I pay attention to words maybe when I’m in the studio,
which I didn’t get credit for, but co-producing by putting George’s voice on a
track, or backgrounds. ‘Cause they didn’t have the ears like I did. Say, when
the pitch is off, or “straighten this out, straighten that out,” or “couldn’t
understand that,” or “you popped on the mic.” Stuff like that. So, in
production, yeah, I paid attention to words. But after that, I don’t really
care about words. Except when I have to memorise it, which I can’t. Where
people like for me to sing. I’d rather accompany the vocalist than have to
sing, remember words. I’d rather play and let the vocalist sing, ‘cause if I
had the lyric sheets there in front of me, I’d still forget them. Look at that
‘cause I’m not concentrating on words. My words are sounds and notes. So I
think something has to do with he keeps repeating that, like you said, or has
a few times, something in his psyche, or that happened to him, or somewhere. Audience Member He thought it was necessary. Bernie Worrell I don’t know. Never asked about it. Don’t care about it. Audience Member Hey, thank you. Audience Member Hi. It’s a pleasure. America Eats Its Young is one of my all-time favorites, so... Bernie Worrell She’s still eating ‘em. Audience Member I’d just like, if you don’t mind, to talk about a little about those sessions,
because tracks like “You Hit The Nail On The Head,” or “Biological
Speculation,” “Loose Booty,” sound-wise there’s nothing touching it for me. I
found that very record so different from all the other Funkadelic stuff. Just
some production notes, or just some memories, if you like. Bernie Worrell Yeah, George and I had just moved to Toronto to get out of Detroit and all
that stuff. [Knocks plant beside couch] Excuse me. Fresh air, man. Clean. And so the headspace was
different, and we wanted to get away from the same old thing. See, I get bored
quick. I’m not going to do the same thing every [time]. Like I said, “Been
there, done that, next.” What’s next? I’m always searching. Taste. I wanna
taste something different. And we wanted to venture somewhere else. And just
do a different feel, different engineer. We had two new members from a local
group in Plainfield, New Jersey. Their group broke up, so we got the guitarist
and bass player from the US, that was a group from back home, and moved them
up to Canada. So that was a different feel. And they’re from the church. That
was Garry
Shider,
who... we lost him last year. And “Boogie” Cordell
Mosson, who just passed a week ago. So we were just trying, experimenting. Audience Member There was a lot of overdubs, or mostly live recording sessions. A lot of
overdubs. Bernie Worrell Both. Basic tracks, then overdubs. Horns. Yeah, both. Lotta hash. Audience Member Hi, very nice to see you. I was just wondering how do you feel to be
celebrated today by such a young crowd, the Red Bull Music Academy, everybody
knows your song. Bernie Worrell I’m scared. I scared. Audience Member Maybe they never saw the Mothership, you know, landing, or whatever.
Everybody’s young, and we still love you, and do you think it’s like a revival
for you? How do you feel about that? Bernie Worrell I’m honored. I didn’t know it was that huge. But thank god for the gift and
thank the people I was sent to teach. I’m thankful and I appreciate. And I
helped. You know, from that commercial. Just did my little two cents. Every
musician or artist that have gone on before us, before me, and which you guys
and girls will be doing for those who come after you. Just a circle. Torsten Schmidt I think we have one over here. Right there. In the corner. Audience Member Hello, sir. Thank you very much... Bernie Worrell I’m Bernie, man. You don’t need to say that. Audience Member Talking about this circle of generation and musicians, you told us, I would
like to ask you if you are listening to some modern music, what music do you
like right now, nowadays? And from the human side of the musician, like a
person recommendation, you can tell us how, you know, because I don’t know, my
partners, but we are looking to get involved more and more in the music world,
and being OK with it. Living it. Great. I don’t know if you understand.
Being... I don’t know. Flow, you know? Bernie Worrell Having the flow? Audience Member In a fluent way. That’s what I’m asking. How do you see to us, to modern
music, what music are you listening now? And if you have some, a human
recommendation to us in music. Torsten Schmidt I think, in essence, it’s about what music you’re listening to right now
that’s current, and that you’re feeling. Bernie Worrell I’m sorry, but I don’t... someone asked before. I listen to public [radio],
college stations, and reggae. There’s not too much out here for me, that’s for
me, that I listen to. Or public radio and the oldies station. Because that’s,
for me, where melody, melody and just the feel. It’s what I was brought up on.
And for the flow, you have to live life. And then open up and listen to all
musics, listen to all genres of music, and then from what you glean, or what
you receive, if you receive anything, take what you hear. You gotta listen,
first of all. You gotta listen to it. Playing and listening are two different
things. You have to listen and hear. And if something hits you, take it and
make it your own. Not necessarily copy it, but take it, you learn. It’s
embedded here after listening. And then something will come and you take it
and re-weave it or whatnot, and then let it flow out. Create your own thing
from the influences that you’ve listened to. But try to listen to all types of
music. You may not like it. If you like it or not, take what you like. But at
least give it a chance. You know? I feel that you gain more from listening to
the whole sphere. [laughs] I have dentures, so I can’t let ‘em come out.
[laughs]Listen to everything, so you won’t be narrow-minded. I hope that
answers [your question]. Audience Member Thank you very much. Torsten Schmidt I’d like to close off with finding out about another recording that you seem
to be involved in, but it’s not really clear to which degree. So maybe as a
little hint, we play a bit of it and see what you can... (music: Mtume - “Juicy Fruit”) Bernie Worrell “Juicy Fruit.” Torsten Schmidt Yeah, I guess your hands give the answer. Bernie Worrell Mtume. On lead vocal. [song fades] Torsten Schmidt Were you involved in more Mtume stuff? You played on more Mtume stuff, right? Bernie Worrell Uh, maybe a couple other tracks, but this is his big hit, him and Tawatha on
vocals. I’m playing the Rhodes on this track and singing in the background.
[laughs] They kind of forced me to, I didn’t wanna sing on it. Torsten Schmidt Maybe it would be a nice thing, like, if you could remember it, and you do
something similar ‘cause it’s such a New York tune as well, and to send us
over to the lunch. And maybe if we could go back to, and have like a... [brings track back up] Bernie Worrell Let that play, I wanna see if it’s tuning. [plays organ along “Juicy Fruit” / applause] Torsten Schmidt Ladies and gentlemen, Bernie Worrell everybody. Let’s give him a big hand.
[when the vocals begin,
Worrell hangs his head and slumps over, laughing]