Danny Brown

In only a few years, Detroit’s Danny Brown has gone from underground oddity to towering rap star, releasing three critically acclaimed albums and charming fans worldwide. Covering topics such as poverty, sex, drug addiction, depression and aging, to listen to Brown’s music is to get a raw look into his personal life.

In this public conversation with journalist Hattie Collins as part of the 2015 Red Bull Music Academy UK Tour, Brown opened up about growing up a nerd in a tough inner city, creative responsibility, writing a children’s book and wanting to be the Trent Reznor of rap.

Hosted by Hattie Collins Transcript:

Hattie Collins

Hello. Hello everybody. How are you doing? Welcome. Welcome to Red Bull Music Academy UK Tour, live and direct from Glasgow with the one, the only, the magnificent, Danny Brown.

Danny Brown

Hey, what’s up? What’s up?

Hattie Collins

You guys will get a chance to answer a couple of questions later but until then you’re going have to put up with mine, I’m afraid. First of all, Danny, how are you? How are you doing?

Danny Brown

I’m great, happy to be in Glasgow.

Hattie Collins

You been here before?

Danny Brown

Yeah, this is my third time here.

Hattie Collins

What are your thoughts on Glasgow?

Danny Brown

I love the fried Mars Bar, shouts out to you all.

Hattie Collins

We’re going to get you onto the haggis later.

Danny Brown

Yeah, I need some fried Mars Bars I think here, man.

Hattie Collins

We’ll go for the fried Mars Bars then we’ll get into the haggis later and see how we get on. First of all, I just want to travel back in time a little bit to young Danny Brown, baby Danny Brown. Tell me a little bit about you as a kid growing up. I believe your parents were quite young when they had you which, I assume, meant you got to listen to lots of cool music growing up. What was the sort of stuff your parents were playing when you were five, six, seven years old?

Danny Brown

Oh, when I was a kid my dad was, he was into house music a lot so I would hear a lot of house music. He’d DJ house music so every time I’d come home from school he’d be in the basement practice DJing. I felt like every time I came home I came home to a fashion show or something.

My mom, she was just more into standard R&B, like the old Motown stuff. For the most part, I got the original Detroit stuff. That’s when ghettotech was first kicking off and my dad, he was playing all that stuff.

Hattie Collins

What stuff was that? Can you describe the ghettotech sound?

Danny Brown

A lot of Juan Atkins, Cybotron, and stuff like that.

Hattie Collins

Detroit is a city, obviously, motor city, we have Motown and all that. It’s very rich in musical history. What sort of musicians would have been in the house.

Danny Brown

My mom was into Motown stuff, like the Temptations. You know what I’m saying? Stuff like that.

Hattie Collins

Cool. I don’t know if this is correct but I read somewhere that you actually, before you even spoke, you actually rapped.

Danny Brown

Yeah, because my mom said she would go to the laundromat and wash clothes and she would just read Dr. Seuss books to me. Then, when I first started talking, I talked in rhymes. I’d be like, “Hi, bye.” That’s not great fucking rhymes but my first words was talking in rhymes.

Hattie Collins

You’ve got to start somewhere, right?

Danny Brown

Yeah.

Hattie Collins

Dr. Seuss, I guess, was a big part of your growing up?

Danny Brown

I love Dr. Seuss books, I still get influenced by them today.

Hattie Collins

You still read them now?

Danny Brown

Yeah, Green Eggs and Ham, that’s my shit. One fish blue fish, red fish, blue fish.

Hattie Collins

You’re sort of known for... Your rhymes are known for being, sometimes, eccentric, esoteric, all these words that people like to throw out. People like me, journalists, like to throw out. I guess Dr. Seuss, was that part of that inspiration in some ways? The sort of idea of the abstract?

Danny Brown

I think, for me, now I’m an adult, and being able to look back on those books, was that the characters he was able to create. I even look at my songs, I try to make them more so like, or even the cartoons of today, kids could watch that type of stuff but as an adult you know what that type of stuff means. You know what I’m saying? Kids don’t get all the jokes. I feel like Dr. Seuss was one of those kinds of guys where he was making stuff that was targeted for kids but an adult could still get entertainment out of it. That’s what I like to do in my music.

Hattie Collins

It works on both levels.

Danny Brown

Yeah.

Hattie Collins

Talk about what you were like as a kid. What kind of kid were you? Were you outgoing, shy?

Danny Brown

I think I was just goofy. I was just that. Always spilled and broke shit and fall all the time and hurt myself. I was never the cool... you know what I’m saying, I was just goofy.

Hattie Collins

What were you like at school?

Danny Brown

In school I was pretty awkward. I was weird in some sense because I always was into rap music and I wanted to rap. I wanted to be a rapper as long as I can remember. In those times there wasn’t too many kids that wanted to be a rapper. I remember the first day of school when the teachers say, “What do you want to be when you grow up?” I would say, “A rapper,” and the whole class would laugh at me. They were like, “That’s not a job.” No one wants to be a rapper. Everybody wants to be basketball players or football players and stuff like that. I bet you now, if you go ask the class that everybody wants to be a fucking rapper. I guess I picked the right job.

Hattie Collins

Was it something in Detroit at that time? Were there many rappers? Was there much of a scene for you as a kid?

Danny Brown

No, hell no, there wasn’t no Detroit rapper as a kid that I could look up to and be like he was out there in the mainstream and doing things. The first rapper that I could remember from Detroit was Awesome Dre. I don’t think too many people remember him but he had a major label record deal and that was a big deal for me, being a kid, to know that you can be from Detroit and still make it.

The biggest influence to me with that wasn’t even rap. It was Jack White from the White Stripes. I remember a time when I was just hanging out in that scene and going to bars and stuff like that. I remember seeing the White Stripes play, it was cool. It was a normal thing to see a band play. The next thing I remember they was on fucking MTV winning Grammys. It was like, “Fuck, I could do that shit too.”

We was just at The Old Miami around the corner, it was like 20 people watching these guys. Now they on the Grammys, they fucking MTV. I just knew that if I just make the best possible music I can, it’ll happen because Detroit is rich in musical history.

Hattie Collins

What age was this, when you were starting to think about maybe I could be a rapper?

Danny Brown

Oh, that was kind of late... I always wanted to be a rapper my entire life but when I decided to take it serious probably wasn’t until I was like 20 years old, 19 maybe.

Hattie Collins

All right, just backtracking a little bit. You’re in school, your parents have been playing all this different sorts of music. How did you start to access your own music? How did you start to discover the stuff that you were into as well as the stuff that your parents...

Danny Brown

Friends, because my dad would always bring a lot of music to me and I would get music from him. I remember one time going to a friend’s house and he played Spice 1 for me. I never heard of Spice 1. It was like, “This is the most gangster shit I ever heard in my life.” I didn’t know that music like that existed. I dubbed the Spice 1 tape from him and then, from that, I just started just discovering music on my own.

Then reading a lot of magazines. At that time it would be like Source magazine. I would read Source a lot. Then there was another magazine that helped me a lot too, was Blender magazine, but that was later on.

Hattie Collins

With The Source magazine at that time a lot of the rappers you were getting were pretty much, correct me if I’m wrong, the same sort of thing. Right? Did you sort of see anybody that you...

Danny Brown

I wouldn’t say that because I was from Detroit so I didn’t necessarily have a thing to choose. Like if you was from the east coast, you’d probably just listen to east coast music, or if you was from the west coast... Being from Detroit, we didn’t have a sound in rap music so we took in everything.

Hattie Collins

You were at school and you’re listening to all these different rappers, Spice 1, people like that. Anything else from outside of rap that was quite integral at that point, in your early teens?

Danny Brown

Wu-Tang.

Hattie Collins

Yeah.

Danny Brown

It was, I guess, ‘93 and my dad... That was when CD players, like Walkmans, first came out. My dad bought me a CD player Walkman and he bought me a Wu-Tang CD. I didn’t know who Wu-Tang was but I just knew my dad had good taste in music so I checked it out. It’s the only CD I had with the Walkman. At the time kids didn’t have CDs so it was good that I had that. I would buy tapes a lot and my homies would come over and steal my tapes. I might go over to their house and put a tape in my pocket. It’s easy to steal tapes but you can’t fit a CD in your pocket.

Me having a CD, and it was the only CD I had so I constantly, constantly listened to it all the time. As far as the sound that I wanted to make and the type of music that I wanted to make, that was the project that I knew what direction I wanted to go.

Hattie Collins

What was it about the Wu-Tang that connected with you so much?

Danny Brown

The fact that you can tell that they was from the hood and they was on some gangster shit but they still broadened their horizon when it came to the content of their lyricism, with them talking about the Kung Fu shit and talking about Islam and stuff like that. It was like these was hood niggers that was doing some nerd shit because it was always a line. You’re doing some nerd shit or you’re doing some hood shit. I was in the middle. I lived in the hood, so I was able to adapt to be doing some hood shit, but at the end of the day that didn’t represent me as a person. I played with action figures till I was in the 9th grade. I was doing some nerd shit.

Hattie Collins

Nothing wrong with being a nerd.

Danny Brown

Nothing wrong with playing with action figures either.

Hattie Collins

What action figures are we talking? Star Wars?

Danny Brown

I had a lot of GI Joes and things like that... This is fucked up [laughs]. Just to let you know how old I was, my favorite action figures were actually Street Fighter action figures. I had every last Street Fighter action figure. If people know when Street Fighter came up, I was probably like 14 or something and I was in fucking Toys R Us trying to find the fucking Baraka. That’s from Mortal Kombat, I’m tripping. I meant Blanka because that was the hardest one for me to find. I had everybody. I had Zangief. I had Dhalsim. I couldn’t fucking find Blanka. Then one of my homies was like, “There’s a Blanka at KB Toy Store.” I wanted a green one and they had a blue one so I just settled out for the blue Blanka. The fucked up part is that I would take these fucking action figures, these Street Fighter action figures, and I would listen to Wu-Tang and I would make these action figures perform like they was Wu-Tang.

I would listen to the whole Wu-Tang CD and I had Street Fighter but I had Marvel characters... Ghostface Killah was Spiderman because he had the mask on. When a Ghostface Killah part came on I would put a Spiderman up to the front, move his hands and shit. “Ghostface catch the blast of a hype verse / The Glock burst, leave in a hearse, I did worse.” It was the shit.

I was about to go to high school and I was doing dumb shit like that so I don’t know. When other guys was trying to lose their virginity, I was making my action figures perform Wu-Tang songs.

Hattie Collins

And here we have you today.

Danny Brown

That’s so fucked up, I never tell nobody that.

Hattie Collins

Do you still play with them today Danny?

Danny Brown

No, I don’t still play with my action figures but I got cats now so I guess my cats are my action figures.

Hattie Collins

You move with the times. Did you ever find the green one, or the blue one, whichever one was missing?

Danny Brown

Huh?

Hattie Collins

Did you ever find that one action figure you were missing?

Danny Brown

No, I just got the blue Blanka. I never got the green one.

Hattie Collins

Aww, if anyone’s got the green Blanka...

Danny Brown

Yeah, shouts out green Blanka.

Hattie Collins

You’re playing with action figures, nothing wrong with that.

Danny Brown

In the 8th grade.

Hattie Collins

Yeah, but I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that. It also must add to your development as an artist today, right? All those things that you just...

Danny Brown

I guess it helped out my performance a lot.

Hattie Collins

Moving your hands up and down.

Danny Brown

Yeah, you put them in a pose.

Hattie Collins

Did you ever tell Ghostface that you did that to his...

Danny Brown

Huh?

Hattie Collins

Did you ever tell Ghostface that you used to...

Danny Brown

I would be super... I never met Ghostface but that would be super embarrassing. I wouldn’t tell him that.

Hattie Collins

No one tell Ghostface that happened. I won’t tell him. You were a nerdy kid but now being nerdy is kind of cool.

Danny Brown

The thing is about being nerdy, I wasn’t good in school. I always got average grades. I never was real good doing school work.

Hattie Collins

Was there stuff at school that you were good at?

Danny Brown

I won the spelling bee.

Hattie Collins

Spell Mississippi.

Danny Brown

M I S S I S S I S S I P P I.

Hattie Collins

Close enough, close enough.

Danny Brown

It was too many S’s? I had too many S’s?

Hattie Collins

Yeah. I’m going to give you that one though. I put you on the spot so you won.

Danny Brown

Yeah, I had too many S’s.

Hattie Collins

You’re good at spelling. Also, as a rapper, were you gravitating towards English and words?

Danny Brown

Yeah, that’s what kind of... My 5th grade teacher, named Miss [inaudible], she was pretty much big on English teacher. She kind of encouraged me to rap a lot because it was... I don’t even remember when I had rapped for her but one time I had rapped and she just gravitated towards it. Any time it was something that she could put me in to rap, she always did that.

There was one time I remember they was picking for band and it was like... This was the dumbest shit ever, how they picked band. The band teacher would come to the class and be like, “Who wants to be in band?” All the kids would raise their hand and then he’ll just say, “OK, you, you, you,” and he’ll pick the band

When they came to pick the band I raised my hand, I want to be in the band because I’m into music. He didn’t pick me so then my teacher just pulled him to the side like, “No, you pick him. You need to take him.” Then, when I got in band by me being the extra kid there wasn’t even enough instruments for me. I wanted to play trumpet and I told my dad so my dad just bought me my own trumpet. I had my own trumpet at band so I was able to practice more than a lot of the kids so I got good at the trumpet. Then my lips just started getting all crazy and shit so he made me stop playing trumpet. If people actually listen to the way that I rap, it’s actually like me doing a trumpet solo. It’s [imitates trumpet].

Hattie Collins

That actually makes a lot of sense.

Danny Brown

I learned how to rap from playing trumpet.

Hattie Collins

Yeah, and the rhythm of it.

Danny Brown

Yeah. I got so good at it that when we would play the normal stuff that he would want us to play but he would always give me the solos. I would step up. That was elementary but then, when I got to the middle school, I was like, “Man, band is lame. I don’t want to play in no band.”

Hattie Collins

What happened?

Danny Brown

It’s just... girls. Shit.

Hattie Collins

Were you rapping in high school then? When did you start to form your...

Danny Brown

Was I rapping in high school?

Hattie Collins

Yeah, when did you start to kind of...

Danny Brown

It was always a shy thing for me in high school, with rapping. It was that kind of thing where I knew I was so good at it that if somebody else tried to do it then I would just ruin their day. I would just pop up out of the blue. Then the whole class would be like, “Why you didn’t tell us you can do that?” They would all be confused. Then everybody would think I was cool.

Hattie Collins

Is that cliché, of a lot of hip hop... you hear a lot of rappers talk about banging on the lunch desk.

Danny Brown

Yeah, I did all that, yeah. That was after the fact that people knew I could rap. I was never that type of person that would tell you I could rap. It was almost like... I don’t know, I kind of wasn’t comfortable telling people that. I don’t know, I was shy about it. Because I cared so much about it I never wanted to rap to somebody and they go, “You whack.” I waited till I was comfortable enough to where I felt like I was better than anybody that could do it.

Hattie Collins

Was that just through practice?

Danny Brown

I practiced a lot, I practiced every day. That’s all I did. When I came home from school I would fucking listen to tapes all day. Actually before I started writing my own raps I would just write out their lyrics, just so I could be able to memorize them better and say them better. I would read the lyrics while the song was playing.

Hattie Collins

Lots of rappers have said that before. How does that help your development as a rapper, writing out lyrics?

Danny Brown

Because you’re able to see the bars. You’re able to count the sequences of the lines. Even before I knew 16 bars was a verse I knew 30 seconds was, from me writing it out and looking at the time and from me saying it. Like 28 to 31 seconds is 16 bars. Before I knew it was bars I was like, “A verse is 30 seconds,” type of thing.

Hattie Collins

Do you remember your first rap?

Danny Brown

Yeah and no. I wouldn’t say it.

Hattie Collins

No.

Danny Brown

I freestyled a lot until I was able to learn how to write them.

Hattie Collins

OK.

Danny Brown

I freestyled all the way up until I was maybe in the 8th grade. My homie whose brother raps, he stole his notebook and then he brought his notebook to school. I looked at the notebook and I seen the way he wrote the rap and he put slashes between every bar and stuff like that. That’s when I started to write my own raps because then I knew how to do it. I didn’t know how to count bars so I would write a verse that was on the front page and the back page. I would say a rap for you that was like two minutes long and it was terrible.

Hattie Collins

Because it wouldn’t stop, it just went on.

Danny Brown

Yeah, it just was too long. Then, once I understood song sequencing and just writing songs and stuff, when I got out of high school and just had a lot of time to myself to just sit there and listen to music and study it, then I understood about 16 bars, hooks, bridges, and stuff of that nature.

Hattie Collins

There’s that theory about 10,000 hours.

Danny Brown

Yeah, I know about that.

Hattie Collins

Do you agree with that?

Danny Brown

Yeah, I believe in that, truly.

Hattie Collins

Just to explain, it’s the thing about... To be great or brilliant at anything, you have to do 10,000 hours.

Danny Brown

Yeah, you have to put 10,000 hours into anything you want to be great at, yeah.

Hattie Collins

How many hours you reckon you’ve done?

Danny Brown

With rap?

Hattie Collins

Yeah.

Danny Brown

It’s a lifetime. It’s way past 10,000 hours. I’ve been doing this since kindergarten. Rese’vor Dogs, that was me and my cousin and a friend of mine named Chips. We just all rapped together. Then we just decided to just become a group. We made a project, which probably took us like one week to make because we just recorded every day and just made stuff. I think that was like... I can’t even remember what year that was.

We had my friend, he was in the streets and he was just putting money into us and helping us out. I remember one point in time we paid the radio station. We had four songs on the radio at one time. We did a lot of shows. I understood the game in some sense, that it wasn’t real. We would pay people to open up for them. It was just rap. I don’t know, it was just rap to me, it wasn’t real. That was when I got the chance to see the real industry of what it was.

Hattie Collins

What did you discover?

Danny Brown

That it necessarily didn’t all just matter about your talent. You can be the best rapper in the world but that’s not going to take you anywhere.

Hattie Collins

Did that put you off? Did that encourage you? How did that make you feel?

Danny Brown

It put me off but, at the same time, I didn’t know what else to do because I didn’t pick my talent, it just happened. If I could have picked it I would be dunking on you all right now. It was just the only thing I’m good at type of thing so I just kept going. At the end of the day, when you hear people say, “If you wasn’t rapping what would you be doing,” I’d still be fucking rapping because it’s fucking fun and I love doing it. What else would I fucking do? I would have a job and make money, or whatever the fuck, and support myself but I’ll still fucking go rap. Me making money from it is extra incentive. You pay me to fucking rap for you? I think I’ll hit the lick. If you had a good time then that was great but, shit, I would have did it for free.

Hattie Collins

That’s pretty refreshing to hear in the age of X Factor and American Idol.

Danny Brown

Yeah, but I guess people are in it for the wrong intentions. If you’re doing music because you think you’re going to become a millionaire then, shit, you might as well stop now.

Hattie Collins

Take the money out of it, right?

Danny Brown

I mean if that’s your intentions it’s never probably going to happen. I think most people that made millions from music probably didn’t even know that was going to happen. They just wanted to make music and next thing you know they’re fucking rich. Everybody that wanted to fucking be millionaires off rapping, now they’re fucking negative.

Hattie Collins

Yeah. I think you were around 20 years old at that point? Does that sound about right?

Danny Brown

No, that was...

Hattie Collins

2003 I think.

Danny Brown

I’m 34 now, so I don’t know.

Hattie Collins

Anyone can do math, so that’s...

Danny Brown

Yeah.

Hattie Collins

20 something, is that right?

Danny Brown

20 something.

Hattie Collins

What was life like for you back then? What were you up to, outside of rap?

Danny Brown

Oh, it fucking sucked. I was living with my girlfriend, we had an apartment. I was selling weed. It wasn’t going too good I guess. It was like that kind of thing where you were like, “I want to be a rapper,” but every night I’m fucking praying to god to help me pay my rent type of thing. You know?

Hattie Collins

Yeah, the tough years, right?

Danny Brown

Yeah. It was the early 20s. I eventually got evicted out of that apartment. When I got evicted I went to New York and I was staying in the studio for a few months and just recording. I made my first mix tape actually, was the Detroit State of Mind 1. Then when I came back home I got locked up and went to jail. I got lucky, I wasn’t homeless.

Hattie Collins

At least you had a roof over your head, right?

Danny Brown

Yeah, in that sense.

Hattie Collins

Three meals a day. Three meals a day? Two meals a day?

Danny Brown

Actually, when I got locked up I was 130 pounds so they considered me to be malnourished so they put me on a diet where I got extra trays. All the other inmates was mad at me because I got more food than them. You know, I was balling in the jail. I ball everywhere I go. You know, I got extra dough rolls. You know what I’m saying? My fajitas was fat. Fajitas is the best thing in jail, by the way. I don’t know what the county put in their fajitas but I know it was more than saltpeter.

Y’all know what saltpeter is? Saltpeter is what they put in your food in jail so you won’t get boners. So everybody won’t be all horny. They put this stuff in your food called saltpeter so you won’t get boners. I still got boners though. My horny ass was still getting boners.

Hattie Collins

Just to clarify.

Danny Brown

Yeah. I guess it worked for a little bit but I think I gained a tolerance to the saltpeter. By about six months I was raging. I was raging. Actually I had a good job. They let me work registry and I would be able to pass out sandwiches to the female inmates. Then I would be like, “Show me your titties, I’ll give you a cigarette.” They’ll show me their titties and I’ll just run off and won’t give them a cigarette. Then I’ll be back on my bunk like, “Ooh, I saw some titties today. You all ain’t seen no titties.” I’m looking at all the other inmates, “You all ain’t seen no titties. I see titties every day. It’s the light at the end of the tunnel.”

Hattie Collins

I don’t know how to follow that up.

Danny Brown

Yeah, so I enjoyed it. I did have some fun times in jail.

Hattie Collins

Good. Was it also any type of inspiration being in there? Like, “OK, I’ve got to sort my shit out. I’ve got to get out of jail and I’m going to do this music thing properly.”

Danny Brown

Before I went to jail I was already traveling to New York. Before I went to jail I was recording in the studio with Nicki Minaj all the time. That’s the weird thing.

Hattie Collins

What? Repeat.

Danny Brown

I recorded in the studio in Queens and all the people in Queens would come and record at this studio. It was like Nicki Minaj, Stack Bundle. I met Tony Yayo the first time there. Prodigy would be there a lot. Nicki was just coming up with me. That’s why I give her a lot of props, because as hungry as I was, she was probably ten times as hungry. I was a little older and I was still in the streets, I was still hustling.

Rap, to me, I always... I knew I could do it but I always felt like people just looked down. I don’t know. I would write a song, she’ll write one. I’d write one, she’d write one. You know what I’m saying? She was always in competition with all the dudes that was there. That’s why I don’t doubt for a bit that she’s where she’s at, because she wasn’t playing no games. Where me, I probably was playing games. When it’s compared to how she took the... She cried in the studio one day. Shit like that. I remember we was doing a song together and I wrote my verse in like 30 seconds and just went and recorded. She was stuck. Everybody in the studio was baiting her, like, “You can’t come up, Danny killed you. You can’t write a verse?” She cried and left the studio. Now she’s fucking number one fucking female rap artist in the world. That’s what it takes if you want to be the best, you’ve got to cry when Danny Brown write a verse.

Hattie Collins

What do you think, looking at her career trajectory? From those early years in Queens and now you...

Danny Brown

She’s the best female rapper I’ve ever heard in my life.

Hattie Collins

Yeah.

Danny Brown

That’s just hands down. Not to say that I’ve heard too many females rap in my life. Nicki is like the illest. I can’t look at her like a female, I just look at her as a rapper. Her, Rah Digga, them the only two females that I just look at like, “You might be better than me.” I never think anyone’s better than me in some sense. I give them they props, they work just as hard.

Hattie Collins

Yeah, have you ever cried? Have you ever cried in the studio?

Danny Brown

Yeah, I actually did cry in the studio, around that same time too. I had just got out of jail and I remember, I got out of jail and I went back to Queens and I started recording there again. I was trying to make my second mix tape, Detroit State of Mind 2. I wrote all these raps in jail and I was getting beats and I was trying to work this shit. I was writing songs and it almost felt like I lost it kind of, because I hadn’t done it in so long.

It was like I was trying to write songs and I couldn’t do it. I was just crying a little bit. I shed a few tears, like, “I can’t do this. I don’t know if I can do this anymore.” Then, once I finished my first song and I went in the booth and I started recording, it was like all the doors just opened up again. Me, recording in front of the mic, and looking through the window and seeing everybody’s expression from what I was saying, I already knew. I was like, “Yeah, I got this shit. It ain’t shit.” I was tripping. That’s what I said. That’s what it takes if you want to be the best. You’ve got to shed a couple tears sometimes.

Hattie Collins

When that inspiration goes, how do you get it back? I’m sure lots of people here...

Danny Brown

I don’t think it’s nothing you get back, you just have to work towards it. Me just constantly like, “I want to do it.” Kept trying to write songs and write songs until I felt one that was comfortable enough for me to go into the booth and say. Then I went into the booth and said it and everybody was like... The looks on their face when I was rapping, I already knew it was... I was like, “I got it. This is good money.”

Then from then I had my confidence back. I had the sauce. That’s all you need, you need the sauce. You need confidence man. I got my confidence back and then I was good.

Hattie Collins

You were living in Detroit but then you decided to go to New York.

Danny Brown

Yeah, that was the only thing that I knew when I got out of jail because that’s what I was working at. I didn’t have a studio I was recording in Detroit. I would save up like $300 and then I would go to New York, pay $100 and something for a Greyhound ticket. Go all the way out there, get me a Metro card. Go to Queens, get me a quarter of weed, live off beef patties and fucking record a mix tape and go back home. Probably ran out of money and probably got to call home and ask somebody to get me a Greyhound ticket home and get back home. Then I have fucking 15 songs.

Hattie Collins

How did you know where to go? How did you meet the people that you ended up working with in Queens?

Danny Brown

It started with the Rese’vor Dog thing, when we did the Rese’vor Dog thing. Like I said, my homie, he was putting a lot of money into us and he was trying to get it going. His uncle was actually the tour bus driver for the Jay-Z basketball team when they was doing it at Rucker. He went out there with his uncle and was riding on the bus with him just trying to... He was passing out our CDs whenever. He actually went up to the Def Jam building and he was... Actually, the funniest thing. He ran into Bazaar Royale, who was one of DMX artists at that time. He played the music for Bazaar and Bazaar was like, “This shit is dope. Fuck it, where you all want to go?” Roc-A-Fella was the biggest place to go at the time so he was like, “Take us to Roc-A-Fella.” He took him up to Roc-A-Fella and he was passing it out to A&Rs. It got to one of the A&Rs named Travis Clements, who was the youngest A&R there at the time. He took and he listened to it and he liked it. He was like, “Yo, let’s come back, I’m going to give you all a meeting.” I wasn’t there, I was at home. He was like, “I’m going to give you a meeting tomorrow.” Then my homie went in there to have the meeting. They were like, “What you all want to do with this?” He was like, “I want my own label. I want a distribution deal.” You know, some shit. Roc-A-Fella was like, “What the fuck you talking about? Get up out of here.” That was the end of that, but through that the A&R, he liked me out the whole thing. In some type of way he got my number from my homie and he just called me up one day and was just like, “Yo, I like you. Let’s meet up.” I just ended up just scrambling up a couple dollars and went out to New York. Then when I went out to New York I was with Roc-A-Fella all the time, just hanging out with him. He just started taking me around. He was actually trying to get me signed to Roc-A-Fella at the time but that was the time when it was splitting up. It was all breaking up and going down so it was all bad. I was able to make a lot of music during that time because there would be certain situations, like Cam’ron would have a session but he’s not there. We’d go to that studio and just record songs real quick and leave before they get there. We was using everybody’s budgets for our studio time and for me to record shit. That was kind of dope because I got to record in Hit Factory and some of these studios. A lot of big studios that you know so I kind of felt like I was a big time rapper at that time. It made me feel like I was doing something. It gave me self-esteem because then I’d be doing this, then I’d go back to Detroit and be sleeping on my grandma couch or something. I’d be like, “I was just at Cam’ron studio.”

Hattie Collins

Even if you got signed sometimes, it doesn’t mean you’re going to be disappointed.

Danny Brown

No, at the end of the day I knew I was on a roll. I was on a path to doing something. It was like a light at the end of the tunnel for me so it made me kept on at it, kept at it.

Hattie Collins

The Detroit State of Mind mixtape series, you did a few of those, right?

Danny Brown

Yeah, I did four of them I think.

Hattie Collins

Four.

Danny Brown

It necessarily was something I was making on my own. It was just me, like I was recording these songs in Queens and then they made mixtapes out of them and put them on the Internet.

Hattie Collins

Is it strange for you to listen back to your old music?

Danny Brown

I don’t listen to my music because it’s like... I don’t know, I guess it’s so much of my life and so much of what I’m... I don’t know. I put so much energy into making it that I probably heard it 1,000 times before I even recorded it. Once I record it and listen to it back and I know it’s good enough for other people to hear it, then I don’t listen to it no more. I don’t listen to my albums, I don’t listen to my music. I make it and put it out and once I put it out...

I listen to it when I’m writing it and when I’m rehearsing it to myself, and probably when I’m recording it. That’s when I listen to it, when I record it. Once I finish and I listen to it enough to where I know it’s good enough to play for other people, I don’t listen to it no more.

Hattie Collins

OK, so probably when you tour or whatever.

Danny Brown

Yeah, you don’t get high off your own supply.

Hattie Collins

As a wise man once said. Just tell us about that Detroit State of Mind series. What were you saying back then? Do you remember the content of those mixtapes? Who were you as an artist? What were you trying to portray?

Danny Brown

I was still trying to be a rapper at that time. I was just being a rapper. At that time I was just saying stuff that I thought other people would like. I wasn’t being Danny Brown, I was being a rapper. I don’t think I really found myself as a rapper until The Hybrid and XXX. I still was making music that I thought people would like. Sorry, I’m burping, I’ve been drinking too much Hennessy.

Hattie Collins

Hennessy will do that.

Danny Brown

Yeah, it does that. Red Bull does that.

Hattie Collins

It doesn’t do that, does it? It doesn’t make me burp. What are you talking about? Is there a part of you that misses those times? You were in Queens and...

Danny Brown

Yes, yes. I miss that. I think I was the happiest and that was the most fun time in my life because I didn’t know. It was just so much excitement of making music and you didn’t know who would hear it. Now I know I’m going to make music and fucking everybody going to hear it. I have to be extra fucking critical about what I’m doing.

I felt like, then, it was just like I just had so much... It was just dreams. Now I’m here so, fuck, I’ve got to do it. I’ve got to stay here. Then it was just so free, I felt just so free. People didn’t notice me on the street, I can do whatever I want, like act a damn fool. Now it’s like, shit, somebody might have their phone out recording me and it’s like, “Fuck. I can’t do that now.”

Hattie Collins

Who do you think was listening to you back then? Was there an audience locally in Detroit, or in New York?

Danny Brown

No, no. My family, my homies. I made music for my friends. If my friends told me it was whack, it was whack, but if they said it was dope, it was dope.

Hattie Collins

Does that still stand today?

Danny Brown

Yep, that’s the way it works.

Hattie Collins

Who do you play music to now to get that...

Danny Brown

My number one friend is my friend from Baltimore, we call him B-Mo but his real name is Mistah. He’s been like my personal A&R person for my whole career. He was actually the first guy to ever take me to New York. I remember, because he was from Baltimore. He just moved to Baltimore randomly. One day he was just in the hood and he was trying to buy weed and then he was like, “Anybody know who to buy weed from?” He had a weird accent and I was like, “Where the fuck you from?” I took him to my cousin and he bought some weed and then we were just kicking it and we was talking about rap. I was like, “I rap too.” Then I played him some of my songs and he was like, “You’re fucking dope.” Hearing a nigger with the east coast accent, like, “Yo son, this shit is dope son.” That was the closest shit to New York I had so I was like, “Yeah, you’re right.” Then I remember one day we was watching TV and then a contest for MTV came on. It was MTV rap contest. He was like, “Yo son, we’re going to go to that shit son.” I’m like, “What? What the fuck you mean?” Then we ended up scrambling a couple dollars. He took me, this was my first time going to New York. We got some Greyhound tickets to New York. He had an uncle that stayed in Flatbush so we went to New York, we stayed in Flatbush, and then we went down to the contest, which was at the MTV building.

When we went down there, there was already 50,000 fucking people already standing in line because we went down there too late. I had a North Face coat and the fucking people started fighting and a riot broke out. If anybody knows, if you have a North Face coat in New York, that’s like you’ve got camouflage on in the woods. Once the fight broke out, I lost my homie and I’ve got a North Face coat so he can’t find me because everybody has a fucking North Face coat on. I was lost in New York like Macaulay Culkin for my first time, for like three hours. I’m walking around fucking Manhattan. This is the days before cell phones too, so we really couldn’t get in touch with each other. I ended up just happened to pee at a McDonald’s and he was in the McDonald’s, so I got lucky. We literally just left from the McDonald’s and went back to the Greyhound station and went home. They shut it down after the fight happened. That was my first time going to New York.

Hattie Collins

What were your impressions of New York that first time, apart from that everyone was wearing North Face?

Danny Brown

Yeah, that’s all I knew, that people like North Face. I don’t know. At that time it just let me know that it was just that easy to leave Detroit. You know what I’m saying? People in Detroit never leave Detroit and never go anywhere. I was like, “We just went on a fucking Greyhound bus and went to sleep. When we woke up we was in fucking Manhattan.” That probably gave me the drive to be able to do it by myself, to go to Queens and record after that.

Hattie Collins

How long is the drive and how much would it cost?

Danny Brown

It was 12 hours. I would get on the 10 hour bus and then I would get to New York by noon.

Hattie Collins

OK.

Danny Brown

10 pm to noon.

Hattie Collins

Just going back to that track, that “Pockets Fat” track. You can feel quite a strong E-40, bay area...

Danny Brown

Oh yeah. In Detroit that’s a big influence, period. You can’t go nowhere without hearing bay influenced music. I remember, even I was thinking about that, I remember my first underground artist I ever heard in my life was Too Short, where I realized it. I would hear rap music on the radio and I would see rap music videos on TV. Then I knew my uncles and my cousin, they played this one tape that I never heard nowhere else besides them motherfuckers playing it. It had like 1,000 cuss words every two minutes. It was Too Short, it was Freaky Tales. I knew that it was another side of it. I see all this MC Hammer and all whatever, Vanilla Ice, all that commercial rap. People that I was hanging around in the hood, they wasn’t listening to that stuff.

Hattie Collins

That opened the door for you to discover that whole west coast.

Danny Brown

Yeah, yeah. It started with Too Short. Like I said, when I went to my friend’s house we played Spice 1. My dad didn’t really listen to too much west coast rap. The only thing he listened to west coast was Ice T, NWA. Which, really, if you think about it, NWA was kind of like Bomb Squad influence because he loved Public Enemy. Public Enemy, Tribe Called Quest is my dad’s favorite shit. That’s all I heard going to school, him taking me to school. On the drives it was Public Enemy, Eric B. & Rakim. The real good stuff, the good rap.

Hattie Collins

What was it about the bay area stuff that you just felt more connected to? Apart from any swearing or whatever.

Danny Brown

I think, in some sense, it’s not necessarily even me, I think it’s Detroit in general, is that we kind of share the same mentality with Oakland and northern California for some reason. I don’t know, I guess it’s just the whole hustle and I guess the pimping. It’s the pimping. It’s the whole pimp vibe. I guess we just get influenced by it.

Detroit, we grew up on that whole pimp shit of wearing suits and gaiters and shit. Oakland, they live that lifestyle, and San Francisco, the bay, they live that lifestyle to the fullest. I guess, in some sense, Detroit looks up to that.

Hattie Collins

From discovering all that, E-40 and Too Short and all those people, where did that lead you to next as a rapper? What else did you discover and how did you discover it?

Danny Brown

Can we pause this? I have to pee really bad right now [laughs]. I’m serious. [applause]

Hattie Collins

So hi, this isn’t awkward for me at all. That was so fast.

Danny Brown

See. Like it never happened [laughs].

Danny Brown

Yeah, yeah, the female toilets are way cleaner.

Hattie Collins

Hit and run. We were just talking about the gateway that you bought into.

Danny Brown

Yeah, the bay and Detroit, our connection. Even if you go and listen to more Detroit underground artists, the street rappers, it’s totally by influenced. Like Cashout Doughboyz and then before them it was like Street Lordz and Chedda Boyz. All that was bay area influenced. Even that, like E-40 and B-Legit and all them, they would hang out in Detroit.

There wasn’t too many rappers that would come and be in the hood of Detroit. You can go to a clothing store on Seven Mile and E-40’ll be hanging out. That was a big deal to us because there wasn’t too many rappers that would come to Detroit and wanted to get into our culture of the hood shit. E-40 was like... That’s why I love him so much. He’s one of my biggest influences in rap, like a mentor to me. Every time I talk to him, I probably get on his nerves when I talk to him because he probably just want to kick it and just be cool and it probably feels like a fucking interview when I’m with him. I’m always asking him shit, like, “Give me the game big homie, give me the game.” That’s all I tell him.

Hattie Collins

How do you think we see his influence in your music today?

Danny Brown

Today? Just having fun with it. I think that was one thing E-40 did, he always had fun. The biggest thing about it was you learned something from him, you took away something from it by listening to his songs. He always wanted to give you game. I think that was the biggest thing listening to E-40. I was in the street hustling at that time and there wasn’t too many people that gave you both sides of the coin. They would always just make it look like hustling was a fun thing, or it never was a bad thing to do. E-40 always gave you both sides. He let you know, if you’re out there in the streets, there’s going to be repercussions that come with that.

Hattie Collins

When did that period of your life stop, the hustling?

Danny Brown

The hustling? When I went to jail.

Hattie Collins

That’ll do it, right? All right, that...

Danny Brown

It didn’t even stop then because when I got out of jail I was dabbling in it a little bit. Once I got out of jail it was like, “Shit, what the fuck am I going to do now?” When I was in jail I’m like, “I’m going to get out and I’m going to be a rapper.” Then when I got out a couple months it was like, “Oh shit, I can’t... shit. This is back to what it was.” I started back dabbling a little bit. Then once it started getting too crazy for me again, I just stopped cold turkey and just dealt with it. I was broke.

J Dilla feat. Danny Brown – “Dilla Bot vs. The Hybrid”

(music: J Dilla feat. Danny Brown – “Dilla Bot Vs. The Hybrid”)

Hattie Collins

We just played “Dilla Bot vs. The Hybrid” featuring yourself. Tell us a bit about that track and the whole project.

Danny Brown

That came about... I was a huge fan of J Dilla. That was one of the biggest things for making me... me going to New York another time and trying to make it happen out there. Dilla was one of the biggest things that made me come back home. I always wanted to make that kind of music and people in New York, they didn’t know what that was. Didn’t in Queens. They figured I had a down south kind of accent a little bit to them, because it wasn’t east coast. Midwest and down south is kind of... I guess we’re a little bit country.

They always wanted me to make down south crap, stuff like that. I wasn’t into that because I was totally into Dilla at the time, and the Madlib and DOOM and Stones Throw and all that type of stuff. They didn’t understand that so I went back to Detroit and concentrated on making music like that. Hanging out in that scene.

Hattie Collins

It’s kind of interesting, obviously, being in Glasgow, which is known as a secondary city, and Detroit also known as a secondary city. There’s always a lot of...

Danny Brown

Secondary city to what?

Hattie Collins

To, as they say, the capital.

Danny Brown

I’m talking about Detroit.

Hattie Collins

Secondary to New York or LA.

Danny Brown

I think Chicago is secondary to New York.

Hattie Collins

I mean it’s not a capital city so it’s not London or New York or LA.

Danny Brown

We’re like 6th. We’re down in the rankings a little bit. I don’t know if we go to the playoffs. As far as musical history, then shit, we’re number one.

Hattie Collins

Obviously, yeah. You can’t take that away from Detroit.

Danny Brown

That’s right.

Hattie Collins

Being not from a capital city, same as a lot of, I’m sure, people here, the temptation is to go to the bright lights, the big city, to move to London, to move to New York, to move to LA. What are the benefits of actually staying in your hometown and making it on your own terms?

Danny Brown

I don’t think it’s any benefit. As far as making it out of it, besides the fact of getting inspired by it. I live right around the corner from Motown. I walked past it millions of times and just looking at it like, “Fuck. That’s where it all happened at?” Just that alone, having that influence and knowing the history. You can make it out of Detroit because we have that name. It ain’t like I lived in Delaware or something like that.

I always am fucking thankful for living in fucking Detroit because you can say you’re from Detroit and people will be like, “You probably can rap. I bet you can rap.” I even remember there was one time when I was hanging out with Yayo. We’d be around Floyd Mayweather sometimes. Floyd Mayweather had his little rap crew and he was always trying to bet money for people to battle his rap crew. I was like the thrift-store-fucking-clothes wearing, skinny jeans guy in the back and there’s all gangsters wearing big chains. I was always in the corner being quiet because they always used to joke on me for being weird and shit. One time Floyd Mayweather, he put up a whole bunch of money like, “Whoever could beat my... I got my artists right here...” One of the G-Unit homies was trying to battle them and it wasn’t looking good so I was like, “Yo, next time you do that, pass it to me. I got it. Trust me, I got it.”

Yayo knew, he was like... Yayo trying to amp it up. Then they set it up, I was going to battle his homies. Floyd Mayweather was like, “Where you from?” “I’m from Detroit.” He was just like, “You ain’t got nothing from me. I’m all right, I’m all right, I’m all right.” I knew then, you say that word Detroit... I looked weird as fuck. I was wearing a fedora with big ass glasses and tight pants you could probably see my balls through probably. I already knew he was like, “Yeah, I’m not about to win this money right here. This nigger about to say some shit.” He gave up. Even the point where his rapper was like, “No, let me...” He tried to want to hear some verses on the side, like, “I know you got some shit.” I just could tell. Yeah, I know that when you say that word Detroit, when it comes to rap music, you should be intimidated a little bit.

Hattie Collins

How much do people like Dilla and, obviously, Eminem is another name that’s an obvious name for Detroit, how much does that affect the city, as an artist?

Danny Brown

As an artist? Most of the artists in Detroit, they don’t look that far. Like I said, most of the influence comes from the bay so you hear the average rapper from Detroit, they’re mostly trying to recreate that. You have your scenes of people that’s into that, but for the majority of them, they don’t listen to Danny Brown.

That’s just us being able to be in a desolate place where’s there’s not too much going around. We’re being in our basement being chemists and creating our own thing. That’s where that comes from. That’s why Detroit is good with that because there’s not really too much to do besides work on music.

Hattie Collins

Also it’s cold, right?

Danny Brown

Yeah, it’s cold but it gets hot as fuck in the summertime too though.

Hattie Collins

When it’s cold and, like you say, you haven’t got many distractions, is that something that works in your advantage?

Danny Brown

Yeah, totally, for me, because there’s nothing else for me to do but just sit and work on music. This winter, this is one of my, probably, most productive winters, I would say, when it comes to me working on music because that’s all I did. This is my first time owning a house too so I was able to have my own house. I’m able to have my own house and just record in my own studio so I’m able to work whenever I want.

Before, when I was in the hood and living with... couch surfing and doing things like that, I remember there was a time when I had to wait till the whole house goes to sleep for me to even start to try to write a rap because it was too much going on. Sometimes that might take till fucking 2AM. I’d have to wait up till 2AM and everybody sitting around doing stuff. “Would you all fucking go to bed so I can fucking work on music.” It’s so much going on I can’t even work on music.

Hattie Collins

Was is it about Detroit? I think it’s interesting that Eminem and yourself, Dilla of course, you all stayed there. You still live there, you still live in Michigan, Eminem still lives in Michigan. Most people, as soon as they get a bit of cash they flee to exotic, interesting, hot, warm climates with nice big houses. Why do you still stay there and why do artists in general seem to be so keen to stick to their roots in Detroit?

Danny Brown

I still stay there because it’s cheap. Shit, I live like a king so shit. I’m straight on going to New York and being average and going to LA and being average. Shit, I live in Detroit and ball. I eat alligator every day. I’m cool.

Hattie Collins

I don’t blame you. Maybe I should move to Detroit.

Danny Brown

Yeah. I got a theory. I don’t want to put no more ho ass animals in my body. I only want to eat animals that can possibly kill me. I don’t eat no chickens, I don’t eat no bitch ass cows. Give me the alligators. Give me the predators. I put killer in me and I’m a killer, right. You know what I’m saying? Big up to alligators man.

Hattie Collins

You know cows kill a lot of people.

Danny Brown

Shit, they kill grass. I’ll fuck a cow up. One on one, I’ll fuck a cow up. He ain’t got shit on me. Knock the milk out of his ass.

Hattie Collins

I’m not going to go against a cow. I’m going to let you go against a cow.

Danny Brown

Like I say, I like predator animals. I see a snake or alligator, I look at it like dinner. I’m on the top of the food chain, not you all niggers. Fuck them chickens. I’m telling you all, you all eat chickens because you all be soft. You’re putting soft animals in your body. If you’re going to eat meat, eat the gangster meat. I’m around this bitch looking for tyrannosaurus meat. Where that’s at? Dig up the dinosaur meat for the player.

Hattie Collins

Your diet is alligator, that’s it?

Danny Brown

Yeah, I love alligator, that’s my new delicacy.

Hattie Collins

Which tastes...

Danny Brown

It tastes like chicken. That’s the funny part about it, it tastes like chicken.

Hattie Collins

Just going back to alligator within Detroit, is there a lot of alligators in Detroit?

Danny Brown

No, we just have good seafood restaurants. Shout out Fishbones.

Hattie Collins

How much of Detroit do we find in your music? Does it pervade your every day...

Danny Brown

I am Detroit so my music doesn’t necessarily represent Detroit. If that was the case, I would be in Detroit talking to you and not Glasgow. I thought outside of the box rather than inside of it. If I was just trying to make music that Detroit people would like then, like I say, we wouldn’t be having this conversation.

Hattie Collins

In terms of being in Detroit, how important was the Internet back then?

Danny Brown

Oh, the Internet was everything, even now. Actually where I’m from, I wouldn’t say Detroit, I would say the Internet. I’m not from Detroit, I’m from the net.

Hattie Collins

How has that helped you? Obviously it connected you to the world.

Danny Brown

It’s my life, it’s everything. I don’t live in this real world, I live on the grid. Shit, I ain’t shit in normal life but on the Internet I’m the fucking man. I’d rather be there all day.

Hattie Collins

What do you do on the Internet?

Danny Brown

Me? What I like to do on the Internet, I guess watching porn is number one. I’m just joking. No, I actually like, my number one thing, now, on the Internet is I’ll watch a lot of conspiracy theories videos [laughs]. Not like what you all think. I don’t watch illuminati videos and shit. I watch conspiracy theories about cartoons.

Audience Member

Regular Show.

Danny Brown

Yeah, the Regular Show is one big acid trip, did you know that? The Rugrats, all the kids are dead. Angelica is just a druggie and she’s imagining all these kids being alive. That’s why Tommy’s dad is so much into building toys, because he lost his son and he’s just so fucked up. Angelica, she’s freaked out.

Even Pinky and the Brain. Pinky is actually the smart one and not Brain. Every episode Pinky and the Brain they kind of figure out Brain’s trying to take over the world and then he always fails. Then, at the end of the episode, Pinky always tells him how he fucked up. Like, “You know, you could have just did this and it could have been easier.” Pinky was really the genius, he just was goofy as hell, aka Danny Brown. I’m kind of like Pinky.

Hattie Collins

I feel like there could be a concept album in there somewhere.

Danny Brown

Yeah, I know all the cartoon conspiracy theories. Shouts out to Channel Federator. Do you all know about that? They the ones that do the cartoon conspiracies. You know?

Hattie Collins

I have a...

Danny Brown

And WorldstarHipHop too. WorldstarHipHop is my CNN, that’s the first thing I go to. I don’t know what Barack Obama... none of that shit, but I know about the corner store fight that happened yesterday. I’m more into that world.

Hattie Collins

Do you ever delve into the cultural life? Not cultural, does news interest you at all or do you stick away from that?

Danny Brown

Like CNN and shit like that?

Hattie Collins

Yeah, that kind, or BBC?

Danny Brown

Hell no, WorldstarHipHop. That’s CNN.

Hattie Collins

Yeah?

Danny Brown

Yeah. Did you see Akon got caught with that tranny? “Oh, pussy.” That was hilarious. That’s the new news in my world.

Hattie Collins

Shout out WorldstarHipHop.

Danny Brown

I told you, I live on the Internet. I live on the net.

Hattie Collins

How many hours a day you reckon you spend online?

Danny Brown

Shit, it’s embarrassing to say. All day, like all day.

Hattie Collins

Really?

Danny Brown

Yeah.

Hattie Collins

How much does it relate to you work-wise?

Danny Brown

All work-wise because when I’m not looking at all that ratchet shit on WorldstarHipHop then I’m just pretty much studying music and watching music documentaries all the time.

Hattie Collins

Who are you listening to at the moment? Who have you found, any good names, new names?

Danny Brown

In music?

Hattie Collins

Yeah.

Danny Brown

Who I’m listening to right now? I listen to the Sauce Twinz.

Hattie Collins

I’m sorry?

Danny Brown

The Sauce Twinz. Do you all know about the Sauce Twinz? Y’all ain’t got no sauce then. The Sauce Twinz are from Houston, it’s a rap group. They signed to Rap-A-Lot Records. They’re amazing. I’ve been listening to the Sauce Twinz. A lot of this Houston stuff, Chedda Da Connect, B. King. B. King is one of my new best friends right now, I love that guy. A lot of this Houston stuff coming out right now is great. Other music, my favorite album right now is Natalie Prass, which I love Natalie Prass.

Hattie Collins

Earlier on you were saying that a lot of your stuff was uploaded to the Internet. Around the 2007, 2008 time you started putting a lot of stuff online. Was that the catalyst for to start to see some success?

Danny Brown

Yeah. The way it happened was that when I was in jail my brother started putting my music on the Internet. Then, like I say, I worked registry when I was in jail. I was cool with one of the COs real good and he was into rap and was rapping too. He would go on the Internet and he started these blogs. One day I was in his office cleaning up and he was on his blog and my song was on the blog. I was like, “Fuck, that’s me.”

He didn’t believe me and he played the song. I’m like, “That’s me, I made that song before I got locked up.” I knew, I was in jail like, “Fuck, my song is on the Internet.” I didn’t know I was there but when I got out I realized that my brother put it up there. When I got out of jail that was my thing, I’m going to put music on the Internet. That’s what I did.

Danny Brown – “The Greatest Rapper Ever”

(music: Danny Brown – “The Greatest Rapper Ever”)

Hattie Collins

We just listened to “The Greatest Rapper Ever” from Hybrid. Tell us a bit about that time in your life, creating that album.

Danny Brown

When I made that song, I don’t even remember where I recorded it. That’s kind of funny. Oh, no, I recorded The Hybrid with Magnetic. I was just, like I said, that was the time when I totally gave up on that whole dream of going to New York and getting a record deal. That was me coming back to Detroit and just working with the producers that are around that I thought was dope. Making a project and putting it on the Internet.

I got with my homie Frank, that ran a blog called Rappers I Know, who pertained to a lot of Detroit and Dilla, stuff like that. I got with him to release that project because I knew that a lot of people that was into that type of music would get into that. When I put that out it was just me putting out another project but what made me so happy about that project was that my favorite blog, it’s Pitchfork, they reviewed it.

I always dreamed of getting interviewed on Pitchfork. They reviewed it and I got a seven point... I can’t remember. A seven point something. That was good enough. I was like, “Shit, I’m on my way.” Pitchfork acknowledged me so that was a big deal. Then I got my deal with Fool’s Gold because of that project too. They had posted “The Greatest Rapper Ever” video on their blog. I didn’t even know I was on their radar, I didn’t know anything about them. The way I was up on Fool’s Gold was I was in New York around CMJ time and they had a party at Brooklyn Bowl and Kanye was there. Everybody was blowing my phone up like, “You need to come to Brooklyn Bowl. Come to Brooklyn Bowl, it’s crack.” I got up to Brooklyn Bowl and it was cracking. There was so many girls up there and I couldn’t get in. I couldn’t get in. I was like, “Fuck, Fool’s Gold is tight. They got shit on lock. I want to fuck with them.” Once they posted my video then I reached out and that’s how that happened.

Hattie Collins

Why do you think that was the album that was the point for you as an artist where it all became clear as to what you wanted to do, what you wanted to say?

Danny Brown

Because that was the first... I wouldn’t say it was the first project, but it was the most project that I didn’t give a fuck about what nobody else thought about it but me and my friends. This was ours. I wasn’t trying to make a project to get a record deal. I wasn’t trying to make a project for somebody that didn’t understand it to like it. It was just for us. We knew this shit dope and if you ain’t cool as us then you whack. That’s just how it was.

Hattie Collins

Can you describe a little bit about your process in the studio, if it is indeed in the studio? How do you write a rhyme, how does it all come together?

Danny Brown

My whole thing about it is that I don’t want to force anything so I let everything happen on its own. I used to always just write raps and stuff like that, and pick beats and stuff. Now I get beats from producers and I listen to them all the time. Then, when something happens, it happens. I could love a beat, I could think this is the best beat in the world, but if it doesn’t happen, it doesn’t happen.

I can put a beat on that’s probably not the best beat in the world but then two lines’ll pop in my head and I’ll be like, “Fuck, that works.” Then it’s like I do the Birdman hand rub, like, “Oh shit, it’s going down now.” Then I’ve got to write a song. To me, that’s one of the most fun aspects of it because I look at it like it’s me challenging myself. Sometimes I lose, sometimes I win, but it’s the game. That’s why I’m more into it. As soon as I get the first two bars I’m like, “Oh shit, it’s on now.” Something like a boxing match, like, “Fuck, I gotta win, who gonna win?” I’m writing this rap and it’s like, “Is he gonna beat me? Is he gonna win?” If I finish this rap and I record it and the song sucks, he won. If I write this shit and it’s dope as fuck, I kicked your ass. I want to kick ass every time. That’s why I pick my games, I just don’t hop in a territory and just try to fight. I get my beat and I’m on my own territory.

Hattie Collins

Where do you get your best ideas?

Danny Brown

I don’t get them, it comes from the heart. I don’t think music, I feel music. It’s not an idea, it’s a feeling.

Hattie Collins

Shower? Places like that.

Danny Brown

No.

Hattie Collins

No?

Danny Brown

I rap all the time. I remember the other day, I was in bed and for some reason it was just like I was in a rapping mood. Every commercial that came on I started rapping to it in my head. I was like, “What the fuck? Would you just go to sleep. Stop with the rap brain. Just cut off.” It was a Burger King commercial or something and I just started rapping to it in my head. It was like, “Go to bed man.”

The rap brain never cuts off. Somebody can say a line, just talking and just say a good quote to me and I’ll be like, “Oh shit, that’s a rap. That’s in my head.” I put it in my memory bank and sometimes I forget it, sometimes I don’t. A lot of times when I’m writing raps I’ll be like, “Oh shit, what was the line?” Hit the memory bank and one of those lines’ll come up.

Hattie Collins

You don’t write stuff down when you think of it?

Danny Brown

I used to when I was hustling but now I don’t. I feel like I studied myself so much into that I know how to do it now. A lot of times I can come up with a punchline on the spot that I could have never thought of just trying to write it down. It would be way cooler with me coming up with it on the spot because it went more with the context of the rap that I was writing.

Instead of, me, I used to write punchlines down all day and then when I get to write a rap, again, when I put this punchline here, put this punchline there. It was kind of too pre-planned for me. I want to capture a moment when I write a song or make a song. It’s like putting lightning in a bottle more so than planning this shit out like that. When you hear a Danny Brown song, know that I was in the moment. I thought there when I write this shit but when I record it I try to get it in one take.

Hattie Collins

One take.

Danny Brown

Yeah, that’s my thing. I want to do it because it’s more so not about what I’m saying, it’s more so about the energy that I’m projecting. I want people to feel it more so than hear it. Even a song like “30,” I damn near was about to cry making that song. I think that projected to people where they liked that song so much that they feel that energy.

Hattie Collins

You can’t teach that to somebody either, right? I don’t think.

Danny Brown

A lot of people want to be rappers. I didn’t want to do this, I was born to do it, so I can’t fake nothing.

Hattie Collins

Do you write your raps down? Do you write your lyrics down?

Danny Brown

Yeah, I’m a writer. I’m a writer, all that.

Hattie Collins

You write them down and then you go in the booth.

Danny Brown

I mean I write on the computer. I don’t think I could read my handwriting no more.

Hattie Collins

Yeah, yeah. What about when you’re in the studio, are there certain things you need around you? Certain people, certain foods.

Danny Brown

No, I just need weed. Just weed.

Hattie Collins

Just weed?

Danny Brown

Mm-hmm.

Hattie Collins

How does weed help?

Danny Brown

Because it calms me. When you’re recording and you’re going through so many... With me, like I say, I’m trying to capture an emotion so I’m going through so many emotional rollercoasters. If I’m writing a song that’s about depression I have to sound depressed in the booth so I have to put myself in a depressed state. After I finish that song I might come out the booth not wanting to do anything else. Me smoking weed will put me back on target to be able to go and record the next song about a bitch shaking her ass. To be able to transfer from those moods I need marijuana to help me do that.

Hattie Collins

Does the beat drive the lyric or does the lyric come first?

Danny Brown

The beat, the beat. I hear the beat and then everything else falls into place.

Hattie Collins

What do you look for in a beat?

Danny Brown

I don’t look for anything, it finds me. Like I say, I don’t make music with my ears, I make it with my heart. I could love a beat, I love the way it sounds, but nothing might not happen. I have to just feel it inside my body, like my heart. It’s just a feeling I get that tells me it’s right.

Hattie Collins

Just going back to Fool’s Gold. You mentioned signing them, I think, in 2011.

Danny Brown

Mm-hmm.

Hattie Collins

How did that change you as an artist? How did that elevate your career? Where did it help bring you to?

Danny Brown

Like I say, I was just so infatuated with their scene, what they had going on, I wanted to be a part of it. That’s what it did, I was able to be part of the scene and adapt. When I first came to Fool’s Gold it was almost like how was this going to work, by me coming off The Hybrid and there being more sort of a J Dilla and Detroit hip-hop influenced type of album. When they first met me they realized that my dad was a house DJ, I was totally into grind music.

I understood the electronic side of it too and I wanted to sort of venture off. That’s why Old was more so about that, and XXX too, a little bit. I wanted to venture off in that lane and the only way I could venture off was with those type of people.

Hattie Collins

Like you said, the electronic part has been a big part of you, hasn’t it?

Danny Brown

Yes. Electronic music started before rap music.

Hattie Collins

Would you say you were one of the first rappers to really embrace that side?

Danny Brown

No, I wouldn’t say that. I wouldn’t say that. I remember being a kid and listening to DJ Magic Mike and I considered that to be rap. Even though it was Miami based. 2 Live Crew, it was a lot of people that embraced the dance side and still rapped.

Hattie Collins

A lot of people nowadays...

Danny Brown

I heard it a lot as a kid. Even Detroit, with a lot of ghettotech, with Goon Squad and stuff like that, they was rapping off ghettotech shit. I was hearing people rap off that style of music. It just didn’t become real popular in the mainstream world.

Hattie Collins

What are the benefits of being signed to an indie? A lot of times people are like, “Oh, I want to sign to the major. You’ve got to sign to the major, blah, blah, blah, blah.” Obviously there’s a lot of downsides to signing with a major.

Danny Brown

I think there’s downsides to signing to anything. It’s just all about what you want out of it. Indies, I think there’s pros and cons to both. It’s the same thing, to be honest. It’s just all about what you want to do with your music. If you don’t want to play that game, chasing radio and trying to be on th TV screen all the time, then probably independent is a better out for you. At the end of the day, it’s still a smaller... it’s the same process of being on a major. You’re going to have to go through the same business aspects you have to. It’s not really a difference to me, besides the fact of you probably got a little more artistic freedom being on a indie. A lot of indies, they try to say they want to be indie but they still have hopes of being major one day. There’s not too many people that just are not doing it for a profit. I guess when you think of indie you think of they’re not doing it to make money. They’re doing it, I think, more so to make money, more so than a major, because they’re getting all the money to theirself.

A major, it’s coming from so many different places. They spread their money out so many different ways, how they get it back is how they get it back. Indie, they want their money back because they ain’t got that much money to be playing with to blow it. One project could possibly make this record company fold. They need the money more so than anything.

Hattie Collins

What do you see the future of music, when you look at the music industry now? I know that to you this isn’t a job, you do it because you love it. What do you see the future?

Danny Brown

What do I see the future? I think it’s at the point where it’s probably going to get stripped down, in the sense of where somebody just takes it in their hands. Let’s just say if a artist got super big on the Internet but it’s hard to fight against those machines, I’m just trying to think big. I’m just saying if a artist got super big on the Internet he say, “Fuck that, I’m not going to sign to no label. I’m not going to sign to nothing. I’m just going to put music out.” Then he just becomes the number one artist in the world and he’s doing it all by himself.

That’s so far fetched because of the fucking machines. A lot of people will probably block that from happening. I think one day we can possibly see a superman, where a person’s not signed to a record label, he doesn’t have a publicist, he doesn’t have none of that bullshit, he doesn’t really... on the Internet. He just puts out music whenever he wants and the people fucking bow down like he’s a god. He doesn’t even really make videos.

I want to see that artist. That would be so great to be where he doesn’t care about making a dollar. To the point where you just beg to see him in public. He doesn’t even want to do a show. If you look at it, every artist begs for attention. They can’t even hold out a year. Everybody have to put out a mixtape every three months because once they don’t see their name on Twitter no more they think they fell off.

Like, “People ain’t talking about me no more? Oh shit, I’ve got to drop something.” They won’t even let nobody else shine. Me, I feel like I let people... I know what I’m going to do when I come back. I know how I rock. I let people eat because when I come back it’s on. A lot of people feel like once people are not talking about them no more they think they’re gone. Me, shit, I know how to rap. It ain’t a big deal.

I take time off. I’m not making mixtapes. I take two years to make a project. That’s why my music is what it is and that’s why it lasts two years after I put it out. I’m just now thinking people are starting to get Old now more so than when I put it out, now they’re starting to understand like, “Oh fuck.”

Hattie Collins

Sometimes albums need that time to breathe right?

Danny Brown

With the Internet we don’t get that chance, with people putting out shit every day. You might listen to a mixtape and two days later it’s a new mixtape. You listen to that and before you know it you forgot about that one. I like staying power. I like music that I listen to it for a whole year type shit.

“25 Bucks,” that was just really me... I always wanted to write a song about my mom. More so than write a Tupac “Dear Mom.” A lot of people wrote songs about their moms but I felt that was the coolest way I could write one. That’s probably the most, closest, real life. That’s real life to me, to try to make it sound entertaining in some type of sense. That’s what my mom did, she braided hair every day, or whenever somebody wanted their hair braided, for $25. Shit, that fed us sometimes. Sometimes we was broke and we didn’t have nothing and fucking somebody would pop up, “I need my hair braided,” at the front door. My mom braid their hair and, shit, now we got fucking pizzas. It was tight. She was independent in that sense.

My mom dropped out of school. She didn’t really have too many education. Not too many places my mom could possibly work. My mom smoked weed her entire life. My mom a gangster. My mom’s looking at me now and I could never be able to keep her in the house. She’d be like, “I’m going to the hood, man, you’re boring out here. I need to smoke some weed.” Even to that point, my mom’s living with me, I give her big ass jars of weed. I’m like, “Just chill here and smoke.” She’s like, “What you want me to do? You want me to sit here and die? I got to get out here and get it.” She wants to smoke weed with the homies. She don’t want to smoke weed by herself. She looks at it like a social thing, like, “I’m gonna go kick it with the homies.” I’m like, “Mom, what is wrong with you?”

I see where I get it too in some sense, I guess. Literally, before I left my mom left my crib. I haven’t seen her in a month. I’m like, “Where the fuck is my mom at?” I called her phone, she sent me to voicemail. I did just hear she came to the crib now that I’m here. As soon as I left she come to the house. My mom’s a gangster.

Hattie Collins

How much of a part have they played in your evolution as an artist?

Danny Brown

In my life? See, that’s what I’m saying, my mom’s so much of a gangster. If it wasn’t for her I probably wouldn’t be a rapper because she encouraged it. When Snoop Dogg Doggystyle came out she bought it, like, “Huh, Doggystyle, here. Don’t play it too loud in front of your grandma.” That bitch listening to, “Ain’t no hos, ain’t no fun if the homies can’t handle them.” Shit like that.

My mom never censored me when it came to that. That’s why, even hanging out with my daughter, I don’t censor her to shit. I think in some sense it made me who I am. When I got grown I didn’t get too crazy into other shit, I already knew what it was. That’s why I didn’t have a baby in my teenage years and shit like that. I didn’t do none of that shit that’ll fuck your life up as a teenager. I knew about the grown shit when I was 10 years old. You fuck a bitch, you going to get a baby. You got to pull out cuz.

Hattie Collins

Just talking about that Purity Ring track. I just wanted to run through the people that you worked with, which include Charli XCX, Chuck English, A$AP Rocky, Screw Fizza, Black Moon, Purity Ring, of course. A whole different array of people. How do these collaborations happen and why are you attracted to working with so many diverse people?

Danny Brown

Like I say, I don’t listen to things with my ears, I feel it. When I hear something and I can feel it, and I feel like that person is being genuine with their art, that’s the type of people that I want to work with. I feel like they take their music just as serious as I take mine. Someone like Charli XCX, I first heard “Stay Away.” That fucking blew my mind, like, “She’s fucking serious about this shit. She’s put her heart and soul into this song.” I love Charli XCX, I wanted to work with her a lot.

Hattie Collins

Who else do you want to work with, who else is left?

Danny Brown

Right now? I want to work with Ann from St. Vincent. I love her so much. Natalie Prass, I love her a lot. Kehlani, Siren, I want to work with Siren. Then I have big dreams of people I want to work with like Jonathan Davis from Korn. I wouldn’t mind getting in the studio with Serj from System of a Down. Stuff like that. I would love to work with Rick Rubin, that’s one of my number one things. Shit like that.

Hattie Collins

Old came out two years ago.

Danny Brown

You know, I’m just a little drunk right now. What’s cuz name from Nine Inch Nails?

Audience Member

Trent Reznor.

Danny Brown

Trent Reznor, I would love to get in the studio with Trent Reznor. I just want to get some weird ass chainsaws going through my raps. I want that shit. I want my shit to sound like BDSM, like, “Oh shit, he’s fucking hand cuffed getting whipped to this freaky shit right here.” I want to get into Marilyn Manson and shit like that. I want to work with them.

Hattie Collins

I could see that happening.

Danny Brown

Yeah, I want to take rap to BDSM. I could make songs about eating pussy but let me hear a song about them getting whipped and it sounds cool. It’s hard to make that sound cool. I want to make it sound cool.

Hattie Collins

What are you working on at the moment? What can we expect next?

Danny Brown

I’m working on my new album.

Hattie Collins

Uh huh.

Danny Brown

Yeah.

Hattie Collins

How’s it sounding? Can you tell us anything about it at all whatsoever? Just a little few droplets of information.

Danny Brown

I would say it’s the most experimental project I’ve probably been working on. Now I’m in that phase of where I don’t care anymore. It’s like I’m here. Before, I made music for people to like. Now I don’t, I’m back to that I don’t give a fuck no more. If you don’t like it you’re lame. This album is kind of like, I’m just trying to push myself as far and make rap as progressive as possible.

I’m on some Trent Reznor shit with this one. Those guys I named, as far as rap... System of a Down Toxicity, that album changed my life. I want to make a Toxicity.

Hattie Collins

Amazing. I can hear it in my head.

Danny Brown

Yeah, I want to make a Toxicity, so I can say that’s where I’m going. If you’ve never heard of Toxicity in rap, I’m more so trying to make Toxicity.

Hattie Collins

We’ve got to wrap up now but I think we’ve got time for one or two questions if anyone has a burning and good question for Danny.

Audience Member

On the last two records you brought, one side, side A, side B on Old and the same thing on XXX, you had the turn up side and the kind of more downbeat personal side.

Danny Brown

Yeah.

Audience Member

Where did that concept come from and are you going to continue that in the future?

Danny Brown

Do you like that?

Audience Member

Yeah.

Danny Brown

OK. I guess that concept came from the fact that I rap in so many different voices that it sounded weird with the low voice coming after the high-pitched voice sometimes. A lot of times I would play these songs to people and... even recently, I had A$AP Ferg at my house and I was playing him some songs. He’d be like, “Who’s this?” I was like, “It’s me. That’s me.” I separated so it wouldn’t be like that.

I feel like, since I did that the last two projects, if you know about Danny Brown then you know how my voices sound so I don’t think I will separate them as much as I did before. It’s just going to be more so all over the place now. Now I feel like I could use those voices in one song. You might hear a song and it might sound like four different people but it was all me. I’m more so experimenting in that way.

Audience Member

I look forward to hearing it man.

Danny Brown

Thank you, man, thank you.

Hattie Collins

All right, I want to thank you Danny.

Danny Brown

Thank you.

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