El Guincho
El Guincho is a one-man carnival, a Canary Islander concocting macro sounds from micro samples, a Panda Bear you can dance to. Growing up in an isolated holiday destination with only his father’s record collection to link him to the world, Guincho’s sample experiments brought him to the attention of Young Turks and XL Records, bringing his twinkling sound to a wider audience.
In his lecture at the 2008 Red Bull Music Academy, he talked about the experience of growing up on a small island, the differences between “isas” and “folias” and why he feels Canarians should look close to home for inspiration.
Hosted by EMMA WARREN So, you all know Canary Islander Pablo Diaz-Reixa from his debut album
Alegranza, which is jammed full of steel pan loops, tropicália, all sorts of stuff with a little bit of help from an MPC and a Roland SP-404. More of that later. So welcome El Guincho. [applause] So you grew up on the Canary Islands, and I thought it might be interesting to
talk a little bit about where you come from because whilst lots of people will
know where it is and what kind of place it is, some of the people sitting here from, say Russia or Kazakhstan or China or some of the more far-flung parts of the
globe – at least far-flung from here – might not know very much about it. So
what’s life on the Canary Islands like? EL GUINCHO [to audience] Have you ever been to the Canary Islands? It’s seven small islands near Morocco, near the Sahara, actually. For example, I have family, my grandfather for example is from Cuba. I have family in France and roots in Africa. How do you say? The aboriginals, the native people were from Africa who were originally here. You have a lot of weird influences there. And we also want to be Spanish, and European, but we are so far away from Europe, sometimes it doesn’t make a lot of sense. It's really interesting being born there. It was really hard for me to find records and get into music on the Canary Islands because we only have mainstream record shops, so a lot of beach and sports. EMMA WARREN We hear a bit of sunshine and beach in your music. So how different is growing
up in the Canaries than it would growing up in mainland Spain? You live here in
Barcelona now, don’t you? EL GUINCHO It’s really different. The Canary Islands is really familiar and you have the beach all the time. I studied in France, and for me, it was really shocking going from the Canary Islands to France. Maybe it’s not the place but the people, the way they think. When you’re on an island you think the world ends at the sea. When you live in Europe, you can travel and meet people from other countries. Basically in the Canary Islands you have a lot of people from the Canary Islands. When you live in Barcelona, you meet people from other parts of the world. EMMA WARREN When did you go to France? EL GUINCHO I’m really bad with ages. I think it was aged 14. EMMA WARREN And how long did you stay there? EL GUINCHO A year and a half. EMMA WARREN Now we’ve got the dates in place. As much as some artists who come from towns
or cities with a strong musical tradition don’t necessarily want to be
associated with where they come from, some places have a strong local tradition [that can’t be ignored]. So if you think about Berlin, for example, you might think
of techno, hardcore, punk, whatever. In LA, maybe it’s hip-hop, psychedelia, funk. What
would be the local music at home for you in the Canaries? EL GUINCHO There is no local music but all the folk, which is like South American music.
As a kid, you wish to be European, so in my case, I was excited first by techno first, then hip-hop records. But there are a lot of Spanish rock bands, really awful-sounding bands. It’s a lot of people wishing to be other than what they are. But I think what we should do in the Canaries is look inside ourselves and find the roots of our sound and work from there to make something interesting. EMMA WARREN But if you’re at home walking down the street, what are you hearing? Are you hearing more European music or more African music? EL GUINCHO You hear the FM radio. I was very lucky because my dad was really, really into music, and he used to travel to London and buy a lot of amazing records that as
a kid I never realized. My dad was really into Fania Records, salsa things and African stuff and tropicalia, Brazilian music. He was really into
Caetano, all these guys. I used my dad’s record collection for my records. EMMA WARREN So your dad traveled to London to buy records. He’s just like a super fan. These dads with good record collections can be a useful starting point for a life in music. You just said that people in the Canary Islands need to look inside themselves and see the roots of what their music is, and to me, that’s what your record sounds like. What is the local folk music? EL GUINCHO We have Spanish guitars actually, a small guitar called timple. In Brazil, for example, you have the cavaquinho or in South America, you have the charango or stuff like that, so it’s kind of like our charango. In terms of rhythm, the African roots are definitely there. But in terms of harmony, you have South American harmonies like bolero and stuff, we have Spanish roots and Spanish guitars. It’s sung in Spanish as well. EMMA WARREN I was looking to see if your folk music is local like the way
fado is in Portugal, a folk music with a specific tradition, and you were telling me about two different types of songs. EL GUINCHO We don’t have a specific style. We have songs that are isas and the
folias and then there are the malagueñas, which comes from Malaga, a place in Spain. It used to be three-bar kind of thing. Slow. What’s interesting to me about Canary Island music is when a big group of people, like 20 or 30 people, just comes together to sing, but it’s very natural, very easy. EMMA WARREN Are these songs that everyone knows or are they songs people make up, almost
like a competition? EL GUINCHO You learn them naturally, three or four songs that everyone knows. You don’t know how. It’s just part of the tradition, I guess. EMMA WARREN And what’s the difference between the two types of songs? EL GUINCHO For example, the folia is more like upbeat, while the isas is more slow, more sad. While the folias is more like party music. Isas are for when you all come together. Basically the difference is where they dance too. EMMA WARREN So all the songs have dances as well, like the Catalan slow-fast thing? EL GUINCHO Yes. [laughs] EMMA WARREN My apologies for not knowing what it’s called. EL GUINCHO The sardana. It’s quite different. EMMA WARREN So how does the dance go? I’m not expecting you to do it necessarily. EL GUINCHO It goes [holds arms in the air]. And the girls are in front of the guys, and
they all go together [wiggles hips]. EMMA WARREN Wow, that kind of dancing. [laughs] Some of this stuff has found its way directly into your album, hasn’t it? EL GUINCHO Totally. I really like Los Gofiones, which is a band who worked a lot trying to find all kinds of rhythms in Canary Island standards. If you like, I can play you one song if you’re into it. EMMA WARREN So this is recorded by whom? EL GUINCHO Los Gofiones. EMMA WARREN And this is a traditional Canary Island thing which found its way onto your
Record? EL GUINCHO Yes. (music: Los Gofiones – “Isa de Salón”) That’s an isa, a really sad song from the Canary Islands. Now I’m going to
show you how I stole it for my record, the song “Cuando Maravilla Fui.” (music: El Guincho – “Cuando Maravilla Fui”) So that’s an isa. EMMA WARREN That’s an isa, El Guincho style. Thank you. One of the things I think about when I listen to your album is that lots of the bits of it get really stuck in your head. How do you make it so sticky? Is it all to do with the looping sounds? EL GUINCHO Yeah, I think that’s what happens with hip-hop, I guess, or techno stuff; when you take a little piece of sound and keep repeating and repeating it, it’s tugging your head. I don’t know if you’re familiar with the BBC Radiophonic Workshop, but I was really into them, Delia Derbyshire, all that kind of stuff. This really old-fashioned looping. I think it’s really interesting. I’m going to play you some if I can find it. (music: BBC Radiophonic Workshop – unknown) You know that? It’s like from the old BBC pioneers. I took, I stole that again for my record too. If you keep repeating that thing, it gets stuck in your head. EMMA WARREN There are quite a few samples in your record. EL GUINCHO Yeah, there’s like 20 samples in every song, it’s crazy. EMMA WARREN Did that have any bearing on how long it took to come out? EL GUINCHO Yeah, we released it in an illegal way in Spain, without clearing the samples.
We sold quite a lot, about 10,000 copies in Spain and Australia, so the record went really good. But when I signed to XL Recordings, for an international release we needed to clear all the samples. That’s why the record won’t be out until October now because it’s so, so hard to clear all the stuff. EMMA WARREN What do you look for? What makes you want to sample something? EL GUINCHO That’s a really hard question. I sample in a naïve way, when I really get excited by a part and want it to happen again and again in the song. That’s when I take it for me, you know? EMMA WARREN And talking about the samples you cleared on the album, what kind of things are included in that list? EL GUINCHO The main loops. We cleared like two main loops in every song, so the more you can
recognize. The little stuff, we just... EMMA WARREN The little stuff, shh! If you can just give us a list of a few things you did clear – where did they come from? EL GUINCHO For example, the single for my album, it’s called “Palmitos
Park,” is made from a little bit of Los Zafiros. Do you know them?
It’s like a doo-wop band from the ‘60s from Cuba. They’re my favorite band ever. If you want, I can play you one of their tracks. EMMA WARREN Yes, they sound fascinating. Let’s get this list together, then we can listen to a few of them. EL GUINCHO So you want me to name more? I have Pete Rodriguez, “El Conde,” which is a boogaloo guy. Then the second song on my album, which is “Antillas,” which was African stuff that I found on some tapes. You can find it on the Internet, actually. But in the Canaries, we have this huge black market of tapes because there are are a lot of guys coming there. There’s this band called Super Mazembe, an African orchestra. The third song on the album was the trickiest one to clear because there were a lot of recognizable samples. Esquivel, who is an exotica producer. Then the Trinidad Steel Drum Band from Trinidad and Tobago. Yeah, it’s lots of stuff. EMMA WARREN You just mentioned “Antillas,” and it would be really good to come back to Mexico and hear the band you were talking about, but can we have a little blast of
“Antillas”? EL GUINCHO Sure. (music: El Guincho – “Antillas”) I think a lot of you went out last night or something, so it’s not a good song to listen to if you’re... EMMA WARREN It’s a good sound to listen to at any time, even if you’re at your most
hungover because there’s something very happy and strongly positive about the music you make. It sounds like you had a lot of fun making it. EL GUINCHO I’m actually not a very optimistic person, but I think it sounds so uplifting because I use a lot of major scales. When I was taking all these samples from all over the world because of the pitch, I’d listen to all this stuff in a very naïve way. As you can see, the songwriting is really, really simple. It’s just like three or four loops to come in together and working because the pitch is the same. The melodies sound really uplifting but just because of the samples actually. EMMA WARREN So what else is it that makes a piece of music sound positive? It’s major scales, it’s samples. EL GUINCHO Tempo. EMMA WARREN What else? How do you make them sound so “Technicolor”? EL GUINCHO The samples come from lots of different places, and sometimes when you sample you tend to forget that a sample means that there was a lot of guys playing this song in a room. So you can take these rooms and you’d got a lot of people coming together in this song. That’s why it’s this big-sounding thing because there are a lot of people actually playing there. EMMA WARREN I like that idea a lot, the idea of capturing the moment of a room full of
people. Aots of different rooms with lots of different people and throwing them all together in a new room. A new room called Alegranza. EL GUINCHO What I think is interesting about the album in terms of production is, when I got all the samples, I recorded everything in the same room, and I had six little amps in the same room in a circle, so I just put in this omnidirectional mic and I EQed all the different amps until I was happy with the sound, and then I just placed the drums in the middle of these amps, and I placed six mics behind the amps, so you could get this sensation of exotica stereo kind of thing. Then I sang in the middle too, so you get this “room” sensation. EMMA WARREN As you just mentioned, you sang all the way through. Have you always sung? EL GUINCHO Yeah, I’m not a good singer but I love to sing. I should not sing that much on my records. But it comes out really naturally. When I’m recording I really want to sing over it. EMMA WARREN It sounds from your description that you like trying different things in terms of the way you record stuff, the way you put it together. Are there any other things you did that differs from just sitting in front of your computer and doing it normally? EL GUINCHO For example, what I did was I had this old recorder, and I used to live in El Born, which is near the sea in Barcelona, so I used to go there and make field recordings from the beach and the people talking. That’s why the album sounded really messy, kind of
[makes sea noise] because I used a lot of sounds from the beach and people walking in Barcelona. EMMA WARREN Do you have an interest in kind of field recordings generally? EL GUINCHO Yeah, I’m really into it. When I go those places I really like to record sounds from those places. EMMA WARREN Later you’ll have to have a chat with El Santo, who’s doing exactly the same thing here with everything that’s happening at the Academy. So what other kind of things do you record when you’re out and about? EL GUINCHO Lately, I’m working on the new set for the tour that I’m starting in three weeks, more of an electronic thing. I’m really getting into that Basic Channel, I’m getting into that thing again. I'm really listening to a lot of that and old French hip-hop that I’m really into. When I was making this album, I was really obsessed with mixing samples with live live things again. I actually played drums in a band. EMMA WARREN What’s your band? EL GUINCHO Coconot. EMMA WARREN That’s the other thing, OK. So we get the sense of some of the more exotic things
you’re influenced by, but you also just mentioned Basic Channel and French hip-hop. Which are the other kind of bands or artists in the more dance-related field that you’re interested in? EL GUINCHO I don’t know. The first music that got me really excited was when my friend recorded me a tape … I studied at a French school, which is why I was into French hip-hop and stuff – but a techno or Frankie Knuckles sort of thing. That was the first thing that got me really into dance music. Then I was a huge fan of the Prodigy. For me living in the Canary Islands, they would come and play when I was 13 or something. And for me to see this band coming to where I was born, I was really influenced by that moment. EMMA WARREN So Prodigy played the Canary Islands? EL GUINCHO Yep, Tenerife, big festival kind of thing. Fat of the
Land era. It really shocked me. EMMA WARREN What are you like live? EL GUINCHO I wasn’t happy at all with the way I played live. I made this album not thinking about playing it live. It was more as a bedroom thing, so I used to play the sampler with my left hand. But I needed something else, so I had a floor-tom with my right hand and a piece of wood, and I had a sound module connected to it with little triggers. So, I used to play the percussion with my right hand and the samplers with my left hand. It was kind of freaky, like that [mimes playing both simultaneously] and singing at the same time. But I wasn’t happy with the sound. I had this SP4, I don’t know if you know it. I’m sorry if any of you work at Roland, but it’s kind of this shitty piece of equipment, it’s like a toy that never sounded good. But it was really easy for me to play with my left hand, but I wasn’t happy with the sound so I’m changing everything and bringing in rhythm machines and synthesizers and stuff. EMMA WARREN A hard record to play live. EL GUINCHO Yeah, if you’re just one guy, it’s really hard. EMMA WARREN Your artist name comes from a bird that flies alone. How important was it for
you to do all this stuff by yourself rather than in a band? EL GUINCHO For me, it was kinda like, I did it by myself. I really like playing with human beings, not only just machines. So it was hard for me trying to find someone here in Barcelona I could share this sound with. I was thinking about playing a lot of the songs with my band, but it was frustrating that I couldn’t find a sound I was happy with. So I ended up doing it by myself somehow. EMMA WARREN The album just kind of happened, didn’t it? Or, perhaps I should ask you that: Did you sit down and plan this record or did it happen in a more natural fashion? EL GUINCHO I never planned it ‘cause I used to work in a film studio writing film scores and commentary scores and music for ads. That was kind of my soundscape or something. I would go home and collect all these little samples and play with them, you know, in a really naïve way. That’s why I sing so bad on the album. I wasn’t making this to take to a record company, I was just playing to relax from my other work. EMMA WARREN So this other work working in the studios and writing these film scores, how did you end up there? EL GUINCHO My friend James had this studio in Ingrazia, which is a nice part of Barcelona, and I wanted to record my first album as Coconut, so I went there and he was the main guy at the studio. We got along really well and we were both into this free-jazz stuff, Ornette Coleman, Archie Shepp and John Coltrane. So I started playing drums and he played sax, and after that, we’d just get into each other’s stuff. EMMA WARREN Before that, what got you into being in and making music in the first place? Did you grow up playing a lot of instruments? EL GUINCHO In the Canary Islands, I studied classical music for years because my
grandmother was an opera singer and a music teacher. So, yeah, all the nietos — I don’t know the word in English — all the grandchildren, we went to the music school as a natural thing. So I started like that. EMMA WARREN It’s funny because you’ve been talking quite a lot about making music in a very naïve way. You’ve used the word a few times. But at the same time as that, it sounds like you’ve got an in-deep schooling in classical music and how you do things “properly.” EL GUINCHO That’s why I think it’s important that I don’t think about things too much because I tend to do that a lot. For my own music, I wanted it to be as a fresh as they can be. EMMA WARREN I read an interview where you talked about growing up in a house with salsa,
tropicalia and African and Cuban records. You mentioned about how your dad was a collector and you have ancestors from all those places. How usual was this in the Canaries? Does every kid growing up in the Canaries have this music around them? EL GUINCHO I don’t think so. My dad was really into records and my uncle was really into records. When I grew up, I hated all these records my dad played at home. For example,
Caetano Veloso, who’s a huge inspiration for me. As a kid, I thought it was just fun music that my dad used to play. Or when my dad played the African orchestras in the house, I got sick of all the repetition. But then it is something that I kept, and it’s in my music. EMMA WARREN And what was it that attracted you particularly to tropicália? EL GUINCHO Here, there’s a lot of techno artists and DJs, but I was really into pop. That’s how I am, I guess, and tropicália had this really experimental way of writing – playing with structures and the way they placed sounds in the stereo helped me get into tropicália. Tropicália had all this feeling, and I felt inspired by what they did with stealing a lot of stuff from American music, or rock. Like Caetano stole a lot from the Beatles, but it was still their own thing. You can take things from here and there and it will still be your own thing. It was really inspiring for me, like you can take ideas from all that but still be your own thing. EMMA WARREN Were you at all interested in the political context of tropicália, that music which sounds one way but is actually doing another job? EL GUINCHO Later on, I was. I started listening to like Caetano and Gilberto at like 16 years old, so I wasn’t aware of the whole situation back in the ’70s. Later on, I read a lot. EMMA WARREN There were some things you wanted to play that influenced you from that area. EL GUINCHO I wanted to play Los Zafiros, a Cuban doo-wop band from the ’60s. They’re
really great. Then I’m going to show you how I stole it. (music: Los Zafiros – “Mirame Fijo”) (music: El Guincho – “Palmitos Park”) EMMA WARREN So you didn’t let the “ooh” go on that one. [laughs] You kept it going. You’re also into calypso as well. Which was one of the biggest calypso bands for you? EL GUINCHO I really like the way they sound so natural. It’s so easy for them to sing, like the Mighty
Sparrow, Lord Kitchener. More like rocksteady guys like Alton
Ellis, also Lord Invader, Macbeth the Great. EMMA WARREN Would this be stuff you’d hear on tape growing up? EL GUINCHO No, this is stuff I really got into later. Actually three years ago or something I started listening to all this stuff. EMMA WARREN So can we hear some? EL GUINCHO Mighty Sparrow. (music: Mighty Sparrow – “Wood in de Fire”) I love it. And I like the way they don’t need to sing in tune. For me I always sing out of tune. EMMA WARREN That’s really interesting becuase in my own personal mental map and my own musical map, I’ve never connected minimal techno stuff back to Africa, but when you put it like that there’s a connection that makes sense. EL GUINCHO In terms of structure. Not in terms of sound. In terms of song structure, there’s really a connection. EMMA WARREN What do you think is different about the way those guys, the calypso guys and the exotica people, what’s different about the way some of those guys in the ‘50s made music than artists tend to do now? EL GUINCHO In which way? EMMA WARREN What interests you about the difference? EL GUINCHO For me, what changed it is you had the mono thing, and then when stereo sound came, all these guys like Martin Denny, Esquivel,
American guys like Russ
Garcia or Sid Bass, all these guys started getting really into trying to place the sounds in a different way. “Hey, we have left and right and center so let’s put the piano here. Why does the bass have to be in the middle?” They were always experimenting. I can play an Esquivel track, for example, just to show what I’m explaining. EMMA WARREN Point out what you’re talking about when it happens. (music: Esquivel – “Latin-Esque”) What is fun for me is music like Martin Denny or Esquivel, taking like lounge music, all this relaxing chill-out stuff, which in terms of production, is really avant-garde. EMMA WARREN Personally, I really love music which appears to be simple and perhaps even like below simple but is actually really mad and clever. EL GUINCHO Like punk, for example. Like the Ramones, it’s so simple that it’s a great idea. EMMA WARREN Shall we have a tiny bit more of this? EL GUINCHO Yeah. [turns up volume] (music: Esquivel – “Latin-Esque” continues) EMMA WARREN You mentioned exotica as well and that very specific 1950s way of seeing the
future. Which of the artists in that area really spoke to you? EL GUINCHO I really like a guy called Attilio Mineo. Maybe I have some of his tracks. [looks at computer] Sorry, no, I don’t have it. But Jimmy Haskell, Sid Bass, all these guys. The way they played with the stereo hugely influenced me. I haven’t read much about them, so it’s hard to know their thoughts. But I know they were conscious of placing things in the stereo that way just to experiment. I know Esquivel did it becuse he was really into it. But also Jimmy Haskell, who was more orchestral, but still sounds weird, for example the way he plays all the strings. I don’t know if they were aware of their futuristic way of thinking, or if it was just natural. EMMA WARREN Obviously, there’s a whole load of artists from this particular period or time who’ve been influential for you. But if we move forward a couple of decades. Which other artists, particularly in the way they captured their sound, have been a big influence on you? EL GUINCHO I think what was really big in the ‘90s, maybe at home – grunge or punk – influenced me in that I knew it was what I didn’t want to do. The way they did all these big productions here [gestures hand in face] – drums and guitars and bass and vocals – super-compressed kind of thing, I knew that was something I didn’t want to do. But I didn’t know how to make the stuff sound different. EMMA WARREN So how did you make it sound the way you wanted? EL GUINCHO Just listening to a lot of exotica records and playing around with mics and doing a lot of field recording and stuff. EMMA WARREN In terms of what you did technically, was it buying particular bits of kit or was it just trying different things allowed you to find yourself? EL GUINCHO When I started working in that studio, I don’t know that much about mics. But I spent a lot of time placing them while the other guys were asleep, trying to record guitars and drums to see how they sounded, opening the doors and closing them because I noticed that when you open the door or close it, that changed the sound while you’re recording. EMMA WARREN So did you record with the doors open or closed? EL GUINCHO Depends. If you want a huge drum sound, you open the door. EMMA WARREN Opening the door makes the drums sound bigger? EL GUINCHO Yeah, totally. In the studio, that used to work, totally. EMMA WARREN Sitting here in the last 10, 11, 12 days, we’ve talked to a lot of people, and one thing I find myself asking almost everyone is this idea of how you listen to music and how, as a musician or an artist, you train your ear to do a certain job. How do you like to listen to music? EL GUINCHO I’m really like a headphones guy. When I’ve finished a record or a mix, I listen with headphones. Sometimes it’s not a good idea in terms of mix, because you never get distance. It’s good to go in your friend’s car and play the music there, and get in the studio and try to find some good speakers. But I’m really a headphones guy, trying to see all the details. EMMA WARREN How much alteration would you make to a finished track after the listening process? EL GUINCHO That’s a problem I have, I always want to change. That’s something that happens to all of us. You always think, “Oh, I could’ve done this better.” I always
mix my stuff like 20 or 25 times. My ProTools is always full of mix 17, mix 18, and then you listen to all this stuff and it’s ridiculous. It’s almost the same mix. EMMA WARREN I suppose the other useful question then is, how do you know when something’s finished? EL GUINCHO I don’t know, I play it to my friends and… I don’t know, I’m really bad, I have no perspective with my music. For me, it’s really shocking that people are into my music because it’s hard for me to face it. I really need to work with a producer – or not a producer because I like the production part, but an engineer or a friend who will say, “OK, Pablo, that’s done.” EMMA WARREN So is it just the deadline that lets you know it’s finished? Is it only finished because it has to go the record company? EL GUINCHO No, also because it feels good. Now I have a new law that I have to finish a track in one day. If I don’t finish it, then I don’t use it. Because if not then I get really baroque and start adding stuff and stuff. EMMA WARREN So does this mean you’ve got the basis for a lot of other records in the future, like lots of tracks you didn’t manage to finish in one day? EL GUINCHO Yeah totally. A bit. EMMA WARREN So what’s the new music you are working on? EL GUINCHO For the live set, because now I’m bringing this other guy who’s going to play the bass through a part. I don’t know if you know the SPD-S parts by Roland. It’s like a sampler you can play with drum sticks. I really like the idea of playing the bass with drumsticks, the way it hits you. We really compressed the bass so it can be like big sub-bass, which my record actually doesn’t have at all. And I’m bringing this Juno thing, a typical synthesizer and some parts connected to the module. So it’s more like remixes of the songs on the album. Kind of like a stripped, colder sound. EMMA WARREN One of the things that struck me about your record was that while the bands who came out of the baile funk thing, all those CSS, Buraka whatever, they’ve made it more acceptable to have international sounds. Local sounds that are not basically English or American. What am I trying to say? EL GUINCHO But they still have this hip-hop thing. EMMA WARREN They still have this hip-hop undercarriage – big basslines and things that sound like they come from England and America but with the rest being their own local stuff on top of it. And your record seems to be your sound, but without that big obvious European or American signature sound to it. Do you think maybe as a global listening community, we’ve got to the point where we don’t need all that other stuff underneath it? EL GUINCHO Yeah, totally. That’s why I keep talking about Caetano Veloso, but that’s why he’s this big figure because he really stole from North American music, obviously. American standards, Gershwin, whatever. Cool jazz, stuff like that. Or Milton Nascimento, who was really into The Beatles, but when you listen to this records, they’re just his own. I like North American music, English and UK stuff. I was really into grime, for example. When Dizzee came out, I was excited about that. But if you just look around you, you can find interesting stuff without going so far away. EMMA WARREN Did you feel any pressure to make it sound more normal? EL GUINCHO No, I was used to working in this studio where the movie director would come in and want you to write something particular. A lot of music that I’d write for ads, they’d come in, “Hey, can you make this sound like Pascal Comelade or Tom Waits.” So I just wanted to forget about that and go home to try doing my thing without thinking about anything else. EMMA WARREN It seems like an exciting time really, and I’m excited about the fact people’s ears
are changing a bit and they’re more open to different things. That maybe over the next six months, three years or whatever, people will have the confidence to come as themselves. EL GUINCHO When I was in the UK to do all this press stuff, all the questions were, “Do you think people are opening their ears?” I think people’s ears have been always open, but the thing is now you can get to music easily. There are a lot of people getting into different stuff, not just the 10 or 12 mainstream artists. But people’s ears have always been open because we live in an environment full of different sounds, you just walk in the street, and there are all these different sounds. EMMA WARREN Possibly, it’s just English ears that weren’t so open because you’re used to pop music being propelled from England from the Beatles onwards. EL GUINCHO That’s a thing with the production. The production is like, “OK, the drums have to sound like that, the guitars have to sound like that.” When you have all these standards, it’s hard to go far. But people’s ears are always open. EMMA WARREN Absolutely. It would be really nice to hear a couple of things, either new stuff you’re doing or other music of yours, or maybe something else that really means something to you. EL GUINCHO Do you know this guy Souley Kanté? I don’t know how to explain his music. It’s dance music, I guess. (music: Souley Kante – “Bi Magni”) (music: J Dilla – “The New”) EMMA WARREN I’ve been keeping my own little personal Dilla T-shirt count in the building. Some days, it’s just a couple. Some days, it’s six or seven. I think we even had an eight one day. But there are definitely a lot of Dilla fans here and people like his music for a lot of different reasons. Why do you like him? EL GUINCHO I think it’s genius, like in Slum Village and his work with Madlib. I think he’s underrated as a producer. He’s a hip-hop artist, I guess, but his head was in another
place. He was really sick when Donuts came out, but his earlier production was always one step forward. The first time I heard Donuts, I wasn’t that into it because it changes so much. The songs were like 15 seconds or one minute. They sound like projects of songs, but at the end, you get so excited because it’s so rich. I can’t explain it. EMMA WARREN You don’t have to explain it any further. I think we’ll hear a couple more things from you and put it out to you lot [talks to audience], then throw it out to you, so make sure you’re marinating on things you want to ask. You mentioned Arthur Russell when we were chatting a minute ago, someone with a really definite and specific sound. You know, who didn’t sound like anyone else. What’s one Arthur Russell song that really means something to you? EL GUINCHO “Keeping Up” is this really beautiful song. But I really like his work as Indian Ocean, this remix by Walter Gibbons where he remixes “School Bell” and “Treehouse.” You really need to listen to the whole thing, it’s ten minutes and I don’t think we have the time, but I’ll play some if it. (music: Indian Ocean – “School Bell / Treehouse (Walter Gibbons Remix)”) EMMA WARREN People find music in lots of different ways, but how do you tend to find
music? EL GUINCHO I find it through the internet, and calling my dad. [laughs] My parents are divorced, so a lot of my record collection is at my dad’s house. He lives on another island in Tenerife, so sometimes I call him to send me stuff. And yeah, I go record shopping. EMMA WARREN What’s your recommendation for record shopping in Barcelona? EL GUINCHE There was a huge place called Discos Balala, but they closed, so you should go
to Wah Wah maybe. EMMA WARREN There have been a few visits down to Wah Wah already. What about out of town? Do you have secret spots outside of the city? EL GUINCHO Outside of Barcelona? No, because this year I’ve been touring a lot, so when I’m in Barcelona, I’m in Grazia
all the time. I like going to restaurants and drinking coffee and being with my friends, disconnect a little from music. EMMA WARREN I think we’ll put it out to all of you guys. Does anyone have a question right now? AUDIENCE MEMBER You were talking about exploring space using panning. I was talking to El Santo this morning about 5.1 surround sound. Have you thought about doing a mix in surround sound and incorporating it into your live performances? I think that would be very exciting, letting the sound wash from back to front. EL GUINCHO Yeah, that would be interesting. I’m writing new stuff. I want to be close and in your face. But with this record, it would be really interesting because it has a cinematic feeling. AUDIENCE MEMBER So this album will be released in 5.1 as well? EL GUINCHO It would be interesting to rework it. Emma Warren Thank you. Who else? AUDIENCE MEMBER You’ve been living in Barcelona for a while. How would you describe what’s happening in the musical scene here? EL GUINCHO It depends which musical scene you mean. Audience Member How would you see it? EL GUINCHO In terms of pop music here in Barcelona, some interesting bands happening now.
What I like is in my small circle of friends, we’re all setting up parties and nights, trying to build something. Not thinking about the scene, but just
letting stuff happen so people can listen to each other more. In terms of dance music, we have some clubs, but there are always people from outside coming here. EMMA WARREN So are these parties like? What’s typical? EL GUINCHO I have these friends who write for a magazine, they have a party called Our Favorite Club. It’s a secret party.
There’s a band playing, some DJs. But in Barcelona, what you have to do is do your own thing, set up your own party. If you want to hear interesting sounds, you need to do it yourself. EMMA WARREN That’s pretty standard in any city. If you’re really interested in music and you’ve got your own sound, you’ve got to do your own thing. That whole thing about doing parties is good because lots of people have started by realizing there’s nowhere for them where they want to hear and so they’ve set up their own. That way you grow a culture, a whole thing, a house with many rooms. EL GUINCHO We had this huge band in Spain in the ’90s called Siete Notas Siete Colores. But I’m missing some one-step-forward hip-hop thinking in Spain, in terms of production, because we have some good MCs. EMMA WARREN Who has the mic? OK then it’s up to me because I’ve got one more question before we wrap up. And that’s about getting signed, really. As an artist coming from a non-English speaking country – at least not as its first language. How easy is it to get an international record deal when you don’t come from those traditional places? EL GUINCHO It’s obviously harder if you live in Spain rather than when you’re living in the States or London. But now, you have a lot of social networks and blogs and Myspace. A&Rs are dying to find the next thing or whatever, so they’re looking outside their countries to find them. For me, what’s weird about working in London with English-thinking and -speaking people, it’s really hard to match the way I think and see music with the way a big
label like a big record label like XL sees things. It will be interesting to see how they work the album. EMMA WARREN With the Internet, there are always new things like SendSpace and MegaUpload and SoundCloud. Are there any of these new things that you like? EL GUINCHO I like guys like Lil Wayne, when he was releasing his album he was working a lot of mixtapes. Every week there was a new one. I like the way it’s really easy to find things because it trains people’s ears and makes them try to go further. EMMA WARREN Unless anyone else who suddenly realized they have a burning desire to ask something, or perhaps if you’re too shy, you’re going to be around won’t you? EL GUINCHO I really need to go to the toilet, but I’ll be around, yeah. EMMA WARREN On that note I think we should let you go and say, give it up, please. El Guincho. Thank you very much. [applause]