Jan Delay

Davide Bortot

My name is Davide. I have the pleasure of welcoming you here in the name of the Red Bull Music Academy. The Red Bull Music Academy has been around for exactly 20 years today. It all began in a warehouse in Berlin Friedrichshain. Which was quite different at the time. Very different. Some warehouses actually carried merchandise back then. But in this one there were musicians from all over the world. Thirty of them. They came together to make music and to talk about music. To exchange ideas. And that was really the whole idea of the Red Bull Music Academy from the start. To bring musicians of different genres and cultures together and to inspire them. And the idea was always to celebrate the music we all love. I’m assuming you all love it too, otherwise you wouldn’t be here. And that is exactly what we want to do today.

A lot has happened in 20 years. But one idea has always stayed the same. It was always about the music and people that really made a difference. In certain genres, in their cultures and in their scene. And we have invited someone like that today. He internalized the vibe of this city and then shaped it like few others have. He is the founder of important institutions like International Music Entertainment, LMS - Last Man Standing, or La Boom, for example, or Hype Magazine. And several other institutions we will talk about in a moment.

So please give a very warm welcome to Eizi Eiz, Jan Delay. [Jan Delay steps on stage] Athletic. Not bad.

Jan Delay

Hello.

Davide Bortot

It’s good to have you here. I was just joking about important institutions like International Music Entertainment. What is International Music Entertainment?

Jan Delay

That was my first attempt to do something when I was 13. Something that had to do with hip-hop and where I could maybe make a buck or two. We came up with a tape music copy service. We were still working with a typewriter. Basically we came up with an analog version of Napster. We listed hip-hop albums that you could order from us for a German mark. And then we would transfer them to tape. And we had one client. And he never received his order.

Davide Bortot

When you say “we” who do you mean?

Jan Delay

That was the legendary Farbinger, Fab 5 Finger, Torch’s cousin whom I met playing basketball when I was 12. He was also the reason I was one of the lucky few who had the chance to listen to great German rap for the first time, listening to the demo of Advanced Chemistry.

Davide Bortot

Where did this desire come from? When you’re 13 you’re usually doing this and that. Playing football...

Jan Delay

Basketball. Basketball. Yeah, Football was totally lame then.

Davide Bortot

But where did this desire come from? Where did the love for hip-hop and its culture came from that made you want to be involved and get something started?

Jan Delay

That’s difficult, I’m not sure. It just takes a hold of you when you’re at this age, when you are so susceptible to be influenced for the rest of your life. And where you’re full of energy and the desire to do something. When you discover something then it really takes a hold of you, when you realize it’s not just Public Enemy and LL Cool J, but that graffiti, as an art form, is part of it, and that there is a dance that is part of it. And that people are doing it all by themselves, bringing out their own records. And that it’s all real. Then it kind of knocks you off your feet. And you realize you can do this too. Without piano or guitar lessons. You can just go for it. And that’s how you start with stuff like International Music Entertainment.

So you learn from your flops and we went on to start a magazine. And through the family connections of Torch we were able to interview people. Being only 13 years old we changed our voices on the phone. We weren’t allowed to go to any jams at 13. We were like, “Yes, hello.” Trying to make our voices sound deeper and older while interviewing hip-hop people. But you just do all that. And eventually you get something back. And then you are 14 or 15 and you are allowed to go to the jams. And then you realize, it’s all already there. This is gonna sound old, but of course there were no cellphones and no internet. Which means it had to spread in a different way. And you were aware of much less that was going on that you could learn and grow from and you could exchange much less with other people. But when you went to these jams you said, “Wow. Something like this is going on in all the big cities. And they are on a similar level as us, or even higher.” And you exchange thoughts, it’s just the best. And it was very intense and full of energy and it just hits you and you can’t shake it off anymore.

Davide Bortot

This combination of different elements. This idea of doing things yourself. What defined hip-hop back then and still does? Do you remember when you first became aware of this and understood it? Was there a moment when you understood, “This is what hip-hop is made of?”

Jan Delay

I think in the beginning you’re just thinking, “Wow!” These heavy beats and how cool everyone is and what awesome sneakers they’re wearing. And that’s the music and how it gets you. That was when I was ten. And when I was 12 I saw Beatstreet. It aired on GDR 1, so the GDR introduced me to the real hip-hop, the real hip-hop culture. And we taped it. Casper did, Tropf. So you could watch it again and again. There were already some pieces around, but you hadn’t made the connection yet, that it was part of the music. Even if you thought it was cool on its own. And in Beatstreet you see what it means, how it fits together and where it comes from.

That was like an awakening. And I think we went outside right after watching Beatstreet and sprayed our first piece. With cans from the appliance store. No, even worse. From the drug store.

Davide Bortot

Stolen?

Jan Delay

No, of course not. No, no. Later we stole them. But the photos were all stolen. But I think we really paid for those first ones. Like 7.95 Deutschmarks.

Davide Bortot

You mentioned Tropf. Later there was a whole group of people, you were a big part of bringing these people into the limelight, who you are still working with today. Tropf is still mixing your concerts. And he co-produces your records.

Jan Delay

I make records with him and we share a studio.

Davide Bortot

You had already met the people you would later form a band with. How did you meet them? How did you meet Denyo? How did you meet Samy Deluxe?

Jan Delay

OK, I’ll try to break it down. Dennis, Sam and I all come from the same zip code and a radius of 200 meters in Eppendorf. I’m from Heinstreet. You are from here so you know. The people on the internet don’t, they’re out of luck. I could see down into Sam’s apartment from mine. It was on the side street. And Dennis was living on the next crossroad behind me. And I met Dennis on my school yard. On the corner where you could play basketball. We were 12 or 13. Later I switched to his school. But I already knew him then. Sam was always around, we grew up together. I knew his face. But then one day I saw him from my balcony listening to his Walkman and walking down the street like this. So I knew he listened to rap too. You could see it from his clothes too. Every school had three to five people who listened to hip-hop back then and you could tell from the clothes. So I saw him walking around. And then during one our first jams, in Itzehoe I think, I mean one of our first perfomances in a jam, I saw him in the first or second row. And then we started talking when we ran into each other on the street. Through Jochen, DJ Dynamite, whom I knew from basketball. He played for Billstedt and Fabi and I for BCJ. I got more of a connection with him because he started the band No Nonsense, that later became Dynamite Deluxe.

Tropf I knew since I was 11 or 12 from school. And then the three of us became sort of a group together. And I managed Dynamite Deluxe in the early days. From the point on when they weren’t called No Nonsense anymore. Until I made Bambule, then it all became a bit much. I’m not a manager, I’m a musician. So others continued that. We founded Eimsbush [label] together and I released their demo. So eventually more people kept coming together, either through the hip-hop connection or through school.

Davide Bortot

But before all this started. You grew up in a household where music was a big deal.

Jan Delay

Yes. The three of us are from the 250 meter radius, from the heart of Eppendorf. But all from parents who had nothing to do with Eppendorf.

We had no money. I don’t want to whine about it, but it affects you. The two of them even more so because of the colour of their skin. Going to school as an unusual person in Eppendorf around all those people who had so much money, it motivates you. Maybe you are a little more ambitious as if you had grown up among equals. And if you add the identification with hip-hop, because those people were all broke too, then it goes “click” all the more.

Davide Bortot

Now I have to talk like a grandfather. Today it’s hard to imagine that hip-hop was something subversive. Today it’s just the pop music people or young people are listening to. What did the others listen to back then? And did they make fun of you for the music or the clothes?

Jan Delay

Well.. I don’t know. Probably. But you didn’t take those people seriously, for what they were or what they represented. As someone from Hamburg, especially as a hip-hopper you have a certain confidence. Or what others might consider to be arrogance. Which isn’t the case at all. But you are so full of energy, so convinced at that point that if someone comes along and calls you out, you don’t really care. Whoever it is, is making a fool of himself and it doesn’t bother you. It’s just how things are. You were just proud of what you represented. Of being an outsider, a freak. But still very confident of yourself and really into what you are doing. So it was always cool. So I’m not carrying any grudges I could talk about.

Davide Bortot

You just talked about your first piece, or how you went out to spray for the first time. Do you remember the first time you made music? Or whatever you considered music back then?

Jan Delay

Music or rap?

Davide Bortot

Both. Music.

Jan Delay

I was always around music. My dad made music and not being allowed to go to one of his shows was the worst thing ever. Because I had to go to bed. So it was always around me. I was lucky that my parents had an amazing record collection and amazing taste. So it was always there. And the first thing I discovered and bought for myself was Udo Lindenberg. Because I only knew music in English or with no lyrics. So I didn’t understand anything. And the German stuff I knew was like German folk music. And then Udo came along. And he spoke to me. He made great music, it had a groove. Which was the most important thing to me. And he had something special. And he spoke to me in German like a normal person would talk. He said things like, “Shit.” As a six year old I thought that was great. So that was the first record I bought. I loved Nena too. But I think I just had a crush on her. And then Prince came. Pop music in general. I always listened to the charts and recorded them and tried to sell the tapes. No, just kidding. Madonna was the greatest thing in the third grade. And at the same time I started making some music of my own. I got a bass drum and an old snare drum and I built a drum set out of them. I found out much later, like ten years ago that they were actually from Udo. Because where I come from, Eppendorf, there was a bar called Uncle Pö and Udo basically grew up there. And the sister of a friend of my mother was dating Udo. And at some point the drums became outdated, he was drummer too, so I got his drum set without knowing it had been his. But it was some kind of a full circle. Anyway, I was drumming around to Madonna. Then Prince came at the same time. As God. That was about it as far as music goes. And then hip-hop finally arrived, with Run D.M.C. I heard “Walk This Way” on the radio in France. And from then on all that other music was kind of forgotten. Because I was so into hip-hop.

Davide Bortot

You were supposed to be the DJ of the Beginners originally?

Jan Delay

Yes. Because Dennis and Martin were rapping in English. And I thought that was cool. And it didn’t even sound that embarrassing. But I knew if I did it would be terrible and I didn’t want to. I don’t think in English, I don’t dream in English and I don’t talk English.

When you rap it should be honest. And you should be able to say what you want to say. And I said, “Let’s do it in German.” I knew they were doing it in France with IAM and NTM in French. I knew through our magazine that that was happening. That it was possible. So I tried to convince them. But they didn’t want to, because they thought it would be embarrassing.

And then I had this demo from Advanced Chemistry, with a freestyle on it. Just a drum computer beat and everybody did a few lines. “Heidelberg” was on it and another song. And they heard it and loved it. So we decided to do it in German. At that point I thought I would be the DJ and make beats. My father was a musician and part of a band. He and a colleague had bought the first affordable sampler. I don’t want to get too nerdy. But MIDI came out at some point. A computer that controls your keyboard and is capable of producing drums. But this sampler didn’t have MIDI yet. So you had to play the loops one by one with your fingers and then copy it to tape. And copy it again. So it was a lot of work. But it was also fun and it was what I wanted to do. Make beats and scratch a little. With like a coin taped to the needle.

Davide Bortot

You made a demo, as you did back then. You couldn’t upload it to Soundcloud as you would today. You had to distribute it among people more directly. What did you have to do to get it out there?

Jan Delay

We didn’t do anything, because somehow we thought that it really wasn’t that good. But we had great intensity. Especially live. And somehow that came across even in this terrible demo. A friend of ours was doing an internship at Groove City. Still the number one hip-hop record store in Hamburg. Applause! It’s still around today. Ale Dumbsky, drummer of Die Goldene Zitronen, was there. They had just made a little money with a tape copy service. No, with a record Kampfstern Mallorca dockt an and “Der Tag, an dem Thomas Anders starb.” He formed a label with the money and he still lived in a squat at Buttstreet and he was really into hip-hop. And he thought this was the next big thing. Not in the sense that you can make money with it. But in the sense that this was going to be what punk rock had once been or wanted to be. Everyone is doing it themselves. And they can unleash their energy and do something great with it.

He wanted to make a German rap compilation. Kill the nation with a groove. The first German rap compilation was called Krauts With Attitude. It had the German colors on the cover. It was terrible. Even worse for him as a punk rocker. So he wanted to take it in a different direction And we as poster boys were perfect for that. With our song “Keine,” a song against the police. Anyway, our buddy started talking to him at the record store and he listened to the demo. So they called us and we were really excited. He said we should record in Knochenhaus in Altona, a former parking lot of a department store, you could record there. So we went there and met Matze. And then things started. They thought the sampler was great so they told us to make an EP. I still think the music is terrible when I hear it today. The raps are awful. The beats are pretty cool though and it has an energy to it. So… Yeah.

Davide Bortot

There is a magic to a group or a crew that comes together, especially in rap. Like Wu-Tang where everyone has their own role or N.W.A. And I always thought your combination was very special. Especially with the four core members, Denyo, Platin Martin, you and DJ Mad. How would you describe the dynamic that you had? That you had in the early day and still have today. Even without Martin who left the group in ’97, ’98. How would you describe the dynamic between these characters?

Jan Delay

That’s hard to answer. Because it was really different in those days then it is today. You can’t really compare it. If we are talking about a time up to Bambule, Martin is still on two of those tracks. He quit the group during the making of that album. Back then we made beats at my place. Or at Martins. Even though that was difficult because his sampler was even smaller than mine. He got it from a newspaper subscription. No joke. He convinced his parents to subscribe to this newspaper so that he could get this little sampler.

Davide Bortot

What newspaper was this? Weapons and Dogs?

Jan Delay

Yes, Weapons and Dogs. It was this big with little buttons. And it had a three or four second sampler. And he always put the microphone in a garbage can for better sound. But it just sounded like shit. But he insisted. So it was even more complicated at his place than at mine. At my place we attached the microphone that someone brought along to a lamp. We had a four-track recorder. You always had to bring it. So you could record raps over a song. We didn’t have a compressor or anything like that. The day I heard a delay or an echo effect on my snare drum or my vocals for the first time it blew me away, like hearing rap or Run D.M.C. for the first time.

We didn’t have anything. It was like I said in the song. All we had was a pen, paper and talent. That was it. But you work so hard, you have an incredible energy. I don’t even know how we managed it all. We had to be at school early in the mornings or later sometimes. But somehow you have to manage that and on the weekends we were always at jams. From here to Munich it took like nine hours or something by train. Or to some little villages for jams and back home on Sunday and then back to school the next day. On holidays we went on some kind of tour. But you just do it. And you get the things you need. You work extra to afford the stuff you need, like a sampler or an MK2.

We even published records while we went to school. And gave “real concerts.” I mean, we didn’t have much of an audience, but you still got a 100 bucks out of it. So you could buy the next thing and you started to exchange with other people in other cities and so on. So our knowledge grew and we accumulated equipment and we got better and better. And… What was the question again?

Davide Bortot

I forgot. I asked it like eleven minutes ago.

Jan Delay

When was that? When did we get started? We recorded our first demo on the 23rd of November 1991. Yes, for real. I remember because we recorded a song for a friend and it was his birthday the next day. So that’s why I remember the date. We started in ’91. I was 15, Dennis was 14 and Martin 16. Still recording with the keyboard. That was with the first sampler. Then we bought the first real sampler with MIDI in ’92.

Martin got one too. DJ Mad got one too. And then it began with the arguments. Who has the best sampler? That’s what we were talking about, the dynamic.

It caused an intense dynamic between us. Because everybody had their new sampler and we started to check out all the different beats. It was great. Not just in our band but with bands we were friends with too. Other bands came into the mix. DJ Dynamite, Main Concept from Munich. We did a lot with them, still do. And then everyone brings something to the table. These old records all contain beats from everyone. [to audience member] Sorry, what? Cocaine in the Coke? OK, I guess he just wanted to say that.

Davide Bortot

You mentioned Matthias and Ale who came from the punk scene. You were on a label that came from the punk scene. You were on the road with these bands. Is that something that distinguished you from other hip-hop bands or activists at the time?

Jan Delay

Growing up in Hamburg you’re already socialized differently and you are a lot more conscious about political issues and a tendency to protest. That reveals itself in the people around you and their music. Also the people I knew who made music played in hardcore bands. In our generation punk was gone. It was more American hardcore. It was shortly before crossover.

Anyway, you already have a connection to the left and to punk rock and a culture of protest. I think that’s why our opinions, lyrics and especially our energy went in that direction. It was the same with punk rock, the bands from Hamburg were overly intellectual in their content. The fun punk was being made somewhere else. And that was the reason that many of these punk bands or Hamburger Schule bands saw something in us and supported us so much.

We went on this first tour, “Etwas besseres als die Nation,” through East Germany in ’92 or ’93 when things were still going rough over there. And the left from Hamburg wanted to show some presence. So they all went there with bands from Hamburg. It was one bus full of bands. And two busses full with anti-fascist activists with shields and clubs and everything. The leader was Daniel Richter. If anyone recalls the name. A well-known painter from Hamburg. That’s how we went to the east. And basically said, “Here we are, what’s up?” We did come to slight disagreements with the locals. Here and there. They always brought us, the 15-year-old Beginners, to safety first. We had to get out of there. In Dresden or Leipzig. It was cool. They taught us a lot. Also about the business aspect of managing yourself in the music world. To do your own bookings, release your own records. They organised gigs for us or helped us with connections or whatever. We got a lot of support from them.

That continued even when rap music from Hamburg got really big at the end of ’90s. We didn’t hang out at Flora so much anymore but still at the Dub Café. We also went to Ahoi, a bar located on Hafenstraße. They had a hip-hop night once a week. It was curated by Erik and all the writers from Hamburg met there, meaning the sprayers who made music and beats. After a while this moved to a bar called Pudel. So it always stayed within a certain group of people, who inspired themselves

Davide Bortot

We’re still talking about the first half of the ’90s. You’re still going to school but you’re already performing at concerts, going to jams, meeting other bands and so on. And the whole thing is growing and in other cities too. Did you already know this would be what you would do with your life? Did you make some kind of a decision during this time?

Jan Delay

I knew this was what I wanted to do with my life. But I didn’t think of it in terms of making a living with it. You didn’t think about that. That was blasphemy. Cora E said, “I live for hip-hop but I don’t live from hip-hop.” And that was the key sentence. It was a time where you didn’t have any examples that it was possible. Majors, pop music and charts were the enemies. You didn’t want anything to do with these things. You wanted to make your own decisions and certainly never wanted to perform on playback shows. And there weren’t any examples of it being possible without major labels. That changed with Fettes Brot and Freundeskreis. And Fünf Sterne Deluxe. I would say those were the first who made it possible. And you believed them when they told you about their experience. Then we realized how far we had come with the indie thing. We had released our first record, Flashnizm, our first LP. Our first real tour as headliners. That was the level we had reached.

We were all finishing school at that time. We are still here, we are still getting better. These other bands, Freundeskreis and Fettes Brot, had shown that is was possible. Should we try? Or do we go on like this and slowly drift into oblivion. And we decided we wanted to try. We really improved so much in that one year. Especially in terms of rapping and beat making. And then we made Bambule. We didn’t expect it to take off like that, only in our dreams. I would have never thought that it had so much substance that you could live off it until today.

And it’s not something I aspired to. It just kind of happened. And thankfully what you are doing keeps inspiring you to do new and different things. And ideally things actually work out. And so it happened. We did another record and I recorded a Jan Delay record. And apparently, enough people enjoy it, so you are able to make a living off it and focus on your work. That was the most important thing with our record Bambule. So that we are able to stay in the studio as long as we want and need. All of our records before sounded like shit. Because it had to be done quickly, since we had no money. We wrote, recorded and mixed Flashnizm in one month. Like I said in that song. It was really like that. And I was doing my community service on the side. And that’s how the album sounded. And we didn’t want that anymore. That’s why we wanted that major deal. We wanted the money to be able to afford the studio time as long as we needed to.

That’s how you have the chance to produce something of quality. You teach yourself and you’re learning by doing. And if it’s successful you can do that on the next record too and so on. And then you can grow even bigger. And you think you’re good enough to perform in a big venue. That finally worked out and you just feel really thankful and really happy. But you weren’t following a plan. One thing just led to another.

Davide Bortot

Flashnizm, the record you were talking about, came out in ’96. I think you recorded it in ’95. And it’s not as bad as he always says. You can hear a lot of different influences on it. You were really trying things out. Dub, reggae, bossa nova. Bambule sounds completely different. Bambule might have been shaped by these experiences but it is a rap album. When and how did this change come about? Because we are talking about a period of two years.

Jan Delay

It came after Flashnizm. Flashnizm was done long before it came out. We had a Kraftwerk sample on it and everyone was afraid of releasing it and getting into trouble. We tried to solve that for a long time but it didn’t work. To get the rights for a Kraftwerk sample is a challenge in its own right. Especially as a small punk rock label from Hamburg. It took about nine months, so it came out about a year later.

In that time we were already working on the next thing. It was ’96. We were done with school and had all day to make beats. There were even more beatmakers. And we triggered and motivated each other to become better and there was such good music coming from the US in those days. You had the time to think about it, to listen and to work all day on nothing else. And the exchange with Samy and Dynamite got much more intense in those days. Everything just clicked all of a sudden. We really made a huge leap in terms of beatmaking, flow and rap in those days. And we managed to let the language roll and understood why certain words had sounded like shit when we rapped “Bruttosozialprodukt.” Some things you just can’t rap. Unless you’re Hafti. Then it sounds great.

Davide Bortot

Bruttosozialprodukt.

Jan Delay

He can do it all somehow. That’s how we learned. Learning by doing. So we really made an incredible leap in that year by doing it on a daily basis. Like Sam. He also made an incredible leap that year. Becoming the rap god he now is. He quit school. Like he says in his songs, “Quit school, to record tracks with Jochen.” He freestyled all day every day on the microphone and if you do that for a year then you become what he became. You can hear it too when you listen to the old demos of No Nonsense. “Funky jam and everyone goes mad,” “Funky jam and everyone grooves to the beat.” That was a Samy Deluxe chorus before that phase. Then one year later, he became kind of a rap machine and then he starts going like, “Pure poison, show for the ears, dissembled hits of dynamite deluxe.” And you can’t believe that this happened in a year. Everyone made a leap like that in that year. Well, FAB was always really good. Everyone except FAB and Stieber Twins. Dendemann came to Hamburg. That definitely gave us a lot of input from a very different point of view. We had a lot to do with rappers from Stuttgart. We really liked that they were much more evolved with their own parties and their own clubs. They had clubs where they only played hip-hop. In Hamburg we had clubs where they played hip-hop once a week. They had hip-hop clubs and they made that happen.

Davide Bortot

Which one?

Jan Delay

There were so many! On Reeperbahn you can put them in chronological order because one always replaced another. Before my time, like the generation of DJ Mad, Torch and the first hardcore graffiti generation of Hamburg, there was the Molotow Club on Reeperbahn, Defcon 5, where DJ Marius No. 1 and I think Coolmann played. Then my generation, we were four or five years younger. That started 1990 at the Tempelhof. Molotow had hip-hop downstairs and then came Power House. That was almost a hip-hop club. It used to be a gym for pimps. They build a club there. That was actually the best hip-hop club. I think that was 1995. At the same time we had Molotow like I said. At the end of the ’90s there was the Pudel. And that was the top spot. We were always there. In the Schanze neighborhood they renovated the Schlachthof and had the 33 1/3 Club every Friday. Great hip-hop club. We were there all the time. Those were the clubs until 2000 or so.

Davide Bortot

When did you record Bambule?

Jan Delay

Were you even interested in that?

Davide Bortot

About the clubs?

Jan Delay

[points to audience] He wanted to know. Anything to add? [laughs]

Davide Bortot

I thought it was interesting. But the clubs were important for you right? Your sound was very club-like somehow.

Jan Delay

Yes. That’s something we had in common with Stuttgart. A dream that our music could accomplish. We knew we weren’t there yet, like Primo for example, but that our own music would be played in clubs at some point. That was important to us because we all liked to go to clubs or were DJs. A big part of our lives happened there. Some of us earned a living there. That why it was important to us in Hamburg, just like in Stuttgart, that it sounds good. And I’m glad we were pushed to feel that way by our city and our sound because we had a real advantage there over other areas in Germany.

Davide Bortot

And now your music gets played in clubs and you’re embarrassed?

Jan Delay

Yeah. But that’s a different story. That’s a Hamburg thing too. But secretly you do feel happy and proud about.

Davide Bortot

In that whole Bambule time. In the unlikely case that someone here doesn’t know what Bambule is, Bambule was an album by the band Absolute Beginner from 1998. It shaped a big hip-hop boom in Germany. When did you know this was going to be a really good album? Was there a moment when you realized this could be something special?

Jan Delay

You mean before it came out, right? No, not really. What I do remember is that you always think it’s awesome the night you mix it. The next morning not so much. And the next evening it’s even worse. But this was the first time I didn’t feel that way. It was still awesome the next evening and even three evenings after that. And that a lot of people were talking to me about it. Telling me it was awesome. What stuck with me was that Bo said... I gave him some songs on Mini-Disc because he was begging me for them

Davide Bortot

Begging, not battling?

Jan Delay

Yes, he was asking for them. And he told me he was listening to it all the time and he couldn’t put his finger on what it was but that it was awesome. And that really stuck with me. And I thought, “Maybe it is really good.”

Davide Bortot

A Nardwuar question.

Jan Delay

What?

Davide Bortot

A Nardwuar question.

Jan Delay

What is that?

Davide Bortot

He is that interviewer.

Jan Delay

Ah yes. With the buzzer.

Davide Bortot

Yes. Exactly. Breakdance school. Someone once told me, I think it was Falk, that with Bambule you had the goal to make an album like Thriller. An album consisting only of singles. Is that true?

Jan Delay

That’s true. But it had nothing to do with Thriller. We wanted...

Davide Bortot

Like that is how you do it.

Jan Delay

Exactly. No, our goal was that every song on the album… When you work with a major label they want a single, we wanted every song to be good enough by our own standards that the label could pick any song to be a single. And we would be fine with it. And not be ashamed. At the time we didn’t know that you could be ashamed of the music video too. But that was our goal. And that’s why we worked on the album for so long. Doing things over and over again. Because that was very important to us. That we end up with 12 songs we all felt were good enough to be a single. I can bear hearing that one on the radio.

Davide Bortot

What video are you ashamed of?

Jan Delay

“Liebes Lied” of course.

Davide Bortot

When you look at the video today…

Jan Delay

Yes? This is stressing me out.

Davide Bortot

[laughs] I mean it was created somehow. You sat there and filmed it.

Jan Delay

Are you laughing because you’re thinking of the video? OK. Good.

Davide Bortot

Did you realize as you were shooting it that it might not be so cool?

Jan Delay

I’m not sure. We have to ask Dennis. I do remember how me and Dennis arrived at the set. Someone brought us to the studio. We arrived at this huge hall and there were like a 100 people doing something. And we looked at each other like, “What is going on here? All these people are working for us? Are they all making something that is going to have our name on it?” That was a real slap in the face. Not in a bad way. It was just a big moment. [addresses audience] Excuse me? It was this place in Jenfeld. Studio 662 or something as they were called back then. We were really impressed by all this. And kind of just did what we were told so when someone passed you a poorly fitting smoking [jacket] you put it on. Because it wouldn’t look so good to wear baggy pants in this theatre. So you just do it. So... What Mad had told us, and I think he was a little overwhelmed too by how much hip-hop would actually be in this video. In that moment we didn’t realize that it wasn’t really there anymore. We thought a lot more would come into it to make it cool in the end. And not like it actually turned out. And then we saw the result and thought, “At least the colors look good.”

Davide Bortot

Let’s talk about the positive aspects of that record and that time. The record came out and you went on tour with it.

Jan Delay

Yes.

Davide Bortot

When did you realize the dimension of it all? With Flashnizm you were performing at youth clubs. And then you release this record. Back then it wasn’t normal for a rap album to top the charts, that was something very special when it reached the charts. And suddenly there were big venues, fans, screaming girls and so on. When did you realize what was happening? And how did you cope with it?

Jan Delay

The good thing is that from putting microphones in garbage cans up to this point it always went step by step. And that caused everything to grow organically. It gives you a healthy sense of confidence. It isn’t the same as in one of these casting shows where people get in an elevator and go to the top in two weeks. And then they are up there and can’t cope with it. So we arrived at that point with a solid foundation. We didn’t expect it to happen like that. But we had seen what happened to Fettes Brot and Freundeskreis, so we knew what was possible. From the moment we finished the record to the point where it became a big hit things kept on growing step by step. You’re at a party and someone from MTV comes up to you to tell you how fantastic the album is, and wants to high five you like this. And you’re like, “OK, awesome.” And you realize these kind of people like the album. And the boss of MCA Records, who signed us, he has the craziest voice I ever heard, that I ever heard, it was exactly the opposite of mine, his secretary told us you could hear the album playing in his office all day. It was the only thing he was listening to. So we thought, “OK, nice!” Tony Cottura, from Booya Family, who ruled pop music back then, told us that “Rock On” was a great beat. “Rock On” came out a little earlier. Those are moments where you realize something is happening. Or the first time a commercial for our single was on, like on the displays of the train stations. They didn’t have a time display yet but there was this really bad pixelated commercial screen and there it said, “Rock On” by Absolute Beginner is coming out.

Those things were adding up and right before the record came out we were invited to a VIVA party because VIVA was turning so-and-so many years old, probably like six months old. And all the people who were in the charts back then were there. All these Young Deenays, or Down Low or whatever they were all called. Or Modern Talking. So that whole other world. Blümchen and who knows. And these people were coming up to us and saying how great it is what we are doing. Suddenly this other side likes us too. So something could really happen here. And then the record came out. Back then MTV was broadcast out of London, and so were the German MTV shows. So we flew to London and hosted the daily chart show there, suddenly we were a part of that world. I turn on MTV and someone calls to tell them he is listening to Bambule by the Beginner. And then we started the tour in January, in 1999. And in Düsseldorf 3,000 people came to the E-Werk. We had never experienced that. At a concert with just us, performing. At that point we knew it was something big. And the next day we all had our first cellphones. Someone called and told me to go and buy Bravo Magazine. And we had our first Bravo poster in that issue. And at that point we realized something had happened.

Davide Bortot

What really impressed me back then as a fan, here was this record, it was in the charts and you were a band, but around that there were a thousand other things. You were doing all this other stuff and there were all the other bands, Eimsbush, etc… All these different styles. Why was it so important to you to not just be Beginner but to do all this stuff as well? How did this band thing become kind of a movement?

Jan Delay

I think that just happened. And one thing had nothing to do with the other. It was the same with Sam, or Dynamite Deluxe as he was called back in the days. Their record came out through a major label with their own deal, just like Beginner had their own deal. It was a pretty banal reason, really. I was the manager of Dynamite Deluxe and we recorded the demo at Martin’s house with four songs, or maybe eight songs, and no record label wanted it. But our homies said how good it was. So we thought we would do it ourselves. We were hanging out in Eimsbüttel, which we called Eimsbush. Alright, then we will name the label like that. A colleague who was a writer, a graffiti artist, made the logo. Somebody else who wasn’t making music but wanted to do something would handle the business. And there were other homies, who were also making music, so we will release something on the label too. And so the whole thing becomes sort of a platform and since the bands received more and more recognition, the label of course did too. So there was a real demand and you start making t-shirts, etc… But that was also a point when I realized, “I want to make music! I want to do Beginner. I can’t do it all at once.” And it’s not my thing. It had to be 100% and it wasn’t. So I kept out of the daily business.

Davide Bortot

But aside from the Eimsbush label. There was this group of people doing things together. There was a crew. The time is well documented and you have talked about it before, but just to be clear, what and who exactly were the Mongo Clique?

Jan Delay

That all happened around the time during Bambule. At the end of ’96, beginning of ’97. ’97 probably. It was a group of people. The center of it was the Basement, which was also in Eimsbüttel, in the backyard at Schlump. Never paid any rent. The landlord was a great guy. He had a few strokes so he wasn’t totally there anymore. But he had a whole backlot that he only rented to artists. So people were practicing piano and rehearsing operas. And in the basement there were Tropf, Sam and Tim Beam. They moved in and that was were Sam freestyled all day. So there were a lot of people hanging out there. A lot of graffiti artists like Die Dreizehner... So, sort of a gang was formed. We hung around with people like FAB, even when FAB broke up, the members still hung out there. Ferris moved to Hamburg. He was always in the Basement because there was weed. And Dendemann came to Hamburg. He hung around there a lot. I think those were the bands. That was when the freestyle tape came out on Eimsbush. That documents that time. And Bo of course. I completely forgot. Bo was there everyday rapping and freestyling with Sam. The freestyle tape is basically the essence of that year. Casper and I had the great task of listening to like 100 hours of tape and eventually cutting and editing the tapes. What was the question again? What is the Mongo Clique?

Davide Bortot

Who was part of the Mongo Clique?

Jan Delay

We were all hanging out in the basement. And unfortunately the word Mongo kind of established itself from some people from Eppendorf. Bo said, “We are the Mongos. I mean look at us.” And everyone agreed. We were the Mongos. Then one day Bo and I came here to the Mercado in Ottensen. It’s still around, the place where you can make t-shirts. Respect to that woman. Because all the kids who came afterwards and wanted that sweater didn’t get it. We also picked the font. That awesome font with the drips.

We picked the ugliest font, because we were the Mongo Clique. Although Mongo and ugliness have nothing to do with each other. And that’s no joke. It was an outsider thing. Whatever.

Anyway, we went there to make these sweaters for everyone. And that’s when we basically decided who was in the clique. Because we had to make these sweaters. We wrote the persons name on the back. And on the front we put this beautiful Mongo Clique logo. That was in 1997. And if I’m not mistaken it was Bo and me, Sam and Jochen, AKA Dynamite and Tropf. A few people from Dreizehner, the graffiti crew. Ferris got one. Schnabel. One person joined later. That was Dendemann. We gave him his sweater half a year later. And that was the Mongo Clique.

Davide Bortot

Is it true that when the hype about Hamburg eventually started to come to an end, when it was kind of over, is it true that one of these sweaters was burned on stage? Or is that just a legend?

Jan Delay

What?

Davide Bortot

It’s a rumor that’s still going around. Yes, that you wanted to demonstrate that this time was over. So you burned a sweater at Flash Festival.

Jan Delay

No. Maybe some people from Berlin burned a Mongo Clique sweater. But not us.

Davide Bortot

But this time was over for you at some point right? You wanted to do something new. How did you experience that time?

Jan Delay

At a certain point there was just a total overkill of German rap. 1999 was the very best time and then there was that legendary month of April. So 19 years ago exactly. When Eins Zwo, Massive Töne, Freundeskreis and some others were all in the Top 10. The first five chart ranks were great German rap albums. That was pretty crazy. And the Flash Festival in Hamburg in 1999 was the absolute peak and the best concert ever and after that it was over. Everyone was there. Really. Everyone. It was an incredible night. It was sold out of course. The whole park was full of people. After that things started to go downhill. I mean it went up commercially but it wasn’t fun for us anymore. Because every label was signing random rap guys. Anyone with a baseball cap got a record deal. And there was just so much bad music coming out. The banks were offering hip-hop bank accounts. Like, “Yo, phat!” It was all just bad, ridiculous and at the same time you had to defend yourself for being in the charts and for selling out. And all that hate and dissing coming from Berlin. It got really annoying. To the point where I thought, “Fuck it. This is not for me.” And I had done that reggae song, the Nena cover. “That’s not hip-hop.” So I thought, “OK, I’m not doing hip-hop.” And I recorded a reggae album instead.

Davide Bortot

How did you make that reggae album? I mean, it is a different kind of music and a different approach pragmatically as an artist. How did you approach that album?

Jan Delay

I learned to make music through hip-hop. And when I made any other record, a reggae or a funk record, I always approached it like a hip-hop album. Not with sheet music but with a sampler. And with a few ideas and a small chunk of pot. No... I mean that you.. In this case we always played with musicians and bands and you don’t have to write down the notes, you can just sing it to the others or let someone else suggest something or use the musicians like a sample and loop them. That’s how I made that reggae album. We had already found each other before. It was the live band from the Flashnizm Beginners tour. Ali the bass player is still my bass player in Disko No. 1 and still the best bass player in the world. And we had the Sam Ragga Band and I made the record with the core members, the Jan Delay record and a few beats that I produced that we mixed in the Basement. We did the live music stuff at Matze’s place in Neuenfelde. It was sampled from these musicians. Like the roots reggae stuff like “Vergiftet.” Everything that was done with instruments was looped, sampled and arranged the way I made rap music.

Davide Bortot

Your next album Mercedes Dance came out five years later in 2006. So it took quite a while. And I remember when you played the album for me. Before it was released you were unsure what would come of it, right? The third Beginners album Blast Action Heroes came out in 2003 and you toured and it was really successful and the Beginners were well established. But you as a solo artist, making yet another style of music that was even less connected to hip-hop, even though of course the influence was still there… Is it just my memory, or was it really unclear to you that you could have a career as a solo artist?

Jan Delay

No. It was a little bit like with Bambule, when you don’t really know and you dream of it maybe, but you don’t know and you don’t want to assume anything because it happens so often that you or others look forward to something and then it doesn’t happen and you are all the more down. So, no. And it was a really difficult time for making the album. I wanted to give up several times so, yeah. Your impression was right on that record... I was little bit fed up with German rap. Once again. Maybe not fed up, but I needed a break from it.

If you spend one, two or three years intensely dealing with German rap and in that process listen to everything that German rap has to offer then you have enough of it at some point and you want to do something different, and I wanted to do a mix of different things. I wanted to make an album for clubs. I thought there were really good rap albums from Germany. And songs that could be played in clubs. But there wasn’t anything playing that you could define as urban. Just a combination of different and good musical directions that you could play in a club and I felt like making funk music. And I felt like having an awesome band. I was DJing a lot at the time. And I wanted a band that could play these club sounds. So I found the people based on that. And I made the beats based on that. They were still mostly programmed and not played. Unlike the album after that. It was exhausting, because it didn’t always turn out the way I wanted it. There weren’t really any successful examples I could listen to. I wanted beats and the intensity of beats. But I also wanted the funkiness and liveliness of funk. And it’s very hard to combine programmed music with live music. Especially if you haven’t done it before and nobody else has either, really. That almost made me quit. I was close to abandoning the project once. But thankfully I ended up doing it with Matze’s and Tropf’s help. So when I finished it I was exhausted and couldn’t really judge what I had.

Davide Bortot

You’ve been making music for 27 years now. Absurd. Sorry. That’s a very long time. And I don’t have the feeling you’re going to quit anytime soon. It’s your thing and you’re living it. Was there ever a moment in all these years where you thought, “Fuck this. I’m going to do something different”? Or how did you manage to maintain that fire and that passion? And maintain that energy through all those years?

Jan Delay

I think I kept the passion and the fire because for the last 27 years I drank a can of Red Bull every day. [laughs] No! I was waiting for the Red Bull gag. It wasn’t planned. It just came. No, get away with that. I think it tastes really bad.

Davide Bortot

Now that we have settled that, what else do you do, to keep the passion?

Jan Delay

But I really do think the Red Bull Music Academy is a good thing! Even though I don’t like the taste of Red Bull, it’s still a good thing

Davide Bortot

We have ten minutes.

Jan Delay

Ten minutes to talk about Red Bull!

Davide Bortot

Let’s focus on important things.

Jan Delay

Yes. Fire and passion. I’m sure there were moments when… Not that I thought, “I’m quitting music, fuck you all.” But I just thought, “Fuck you all.” No, there was that moment that I mentioned earlier. The hip-hop overkill and all the dissing. Where I thought, “That sucks, I don’t want that. Fuck you guys.” I suggested that to Dennis and Mad, I told them... During the Flash Festival 2000, at the Millerntor Stadium, in front of 19,000 people, “Let’s roll out a banner after the show that just says, That was all, you c--ts.” The c--ts part was just a suggestion. Just to roll out a banner saying, “That’s all!” And they said, “Sure, why not?” I mean you have to imagine we were together all the time for three years. And we experienced really great things, but also really shitty things, and when you haven’t had time to really reflect, like, in the moment... The shitty part is hard to ignore. I mean, it was clear that we would continue to make music in some form. Just something different maybe. So they said, “Sure.”

But then Mad called us two days later and said, “We can’t do that.” So we all got together and he made a passionate speech about why we had to go on. And we said, “Yes! You’re right! We’re gonna do two solo albums and then we continue together.” So there were moments of quitting. But I never wanted to quit music entirely.

But before Mercedes Dance, after Blast Action Heroes, there was a sense of resignation because the music market had collapsed back then. I couldn’t, either as Absolute Beginners or as Jan Delay, I didn’t have, like, a live show that could fill concert halls and that I could live off. We depended on the money that the records made. And that really collapsed in 2003 or 2004, illegal downloads were really popular then. Before that began to check itself Blast Action Heroes wasn’t exactly Thriller. I mean sales-wise. Or Bad. You have to re-orient yourself or see what else you can do if you want to work with music. I was a little worried at the time. Because I didn’t expect things to develop so well later on with Jan Delay or with the Beginners.

Davide Bortot

When you make music today... What is the biggest difference to how you were making music 27, 26 or 23 years ago? Is there something you learned or changed in all those years? And what is your mode today? In contrast to how it used to be.

Jan Delay

That’s difficult. I learned and experienced so much, of course, you can imagine, in 27 years, so it’s impossible to compare. You learn and experience so many things that you become a lot calmer, much more relaxed about things, but that makes you more susceptible to laziness in certain areas. Especially like technical things, I let it slide there a little bit and stopped nerding around so much, I stopped wanting to be able to join the conversation. Is that how you say it? The world is changing at such speed that if you want to stay on top of that stuff, that alone can fill a lifetime. I realized I wanted to focus on good lyrics and on being a good entertainer putting on a good show, making good songs and good records and… Let other people get into the technical stuff and then I just ask them if I need their help. That’s a real change. 27 years ago I was so… I had such a desire to control things. I wanted to be able to do it all by myself. I had to do it all by myself. I don’t feel that way anymore. Today you do what you do best. And everyone involved does what they do best. And that gets the best results. And everyone is satisfied and happy.

Davide Bortot

I know you don’t really like to be in this role of an uncle, but since the Red Bull Music Academy is all about learning and new experiences and I know a lot of people are watching that make music themselves, what would you say – from today’s standpoint as someone who has experienced a lot – what is the most important thing to keep in mind for someone who thinks, “It would be cool to make music”?

Jan Delay

[pauses] You mean it in the sense that making music would be cool if I’m on YouTube and I’m earning money with it and not like, I want to learn to play the clarinet?

Davide Bortot

No. That’s all.

Jan Delay

I think those are two very different things.

Davide Bortot

I meant the process of making music. I don’t know about the clarinet, but “I want to make beats.” I mean, just making music.

Jan Delay

And not wanting to be a star?

Davide Bortot

I think there is a lot of information already on how to be a star, but what do you think is the most important thing when you just want to make music? What could you tell people who still have a long road ahead of them?

Jan Delay

If they just want to make music, that’s easy. Just do it. That’s great. Because there is no wrong or right. That’s the great thing about music. What I consider wrong might be just right for someone else. And vice-versa. That’s art. You should just do it. If you have that voice and feel like it. Just do it. No matter what it sounds like. [someone walks in front of stage] That’s M. Hey M. What’s up? What did I want to say?

There is no right or wrong and it doesn’t matter how it might sound to others, if you like it yourself, or even if you don’t like it, but if you enjoy the process, then you should do it. It’s great and you learn so much. I think especially with kids, and leading educators agree, that music helps you to evolve and stimulates creativity. It helps you, as stupid as this may sound, to become a better person to understand and learn better techniques, to get smarter. Learning an instrument helps a child to develop social skills too, to be among other kids. Sounds stupid, but it is really true. And you should just do it if you have the desire. You should even do it if you don’t have the desire. Everyone should make music. Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin should make music. The world would be a much better place.

Davide Bortot

Thank you! We have five minutes left. We have to stop on time, because they are showing a film afterwards. But as the tradition has it here the audience can ask a few questions. We have five minutes, maybe we can do three questions. But they have to be really good.

Jan Delay

No shit!

Davide Bortot

Hold on. We need a microphone! We need a microphone, so the people at home can hear the question.

Jan Delay

I’m a professional. Is there anyone but him? Otherwise I’ll ask him. There are enough. In the back, I think over here, was the first question

Davide Bortot

Wait. Wait. Microphone.

Jan Delay

Yes, that’s good.

Audience Member

Is there ever going to be another La Boom album?

Jan Delay

Somebody asked me that at a traffic light in Berlin yesterday. That’s one of these things. It’s really fun, but it’s so time-consuming, and the balance between time and effort and the final result, there are things that Tropf and I want to do just as badly, but these things usually lead to a Jan Delay or Beginners album. A lot more people benefit from those, so we usually go with that, but if we would check our computers now, and looked at all the stuff we discarded over the last 20 years and we would lock ourselves in for two months... Yeah, but we have kids too.

Davide Bortot

So that’s a yes. Next year a new La Boom album?

Jan Delay

Then we might actually do it. We both feel like doing another. It’s not like that’s not the case. Who knows?

Davide Bortot

Any other questions? There! Just ask the question and then Jan can repeat it.

Audience Member

Which German artist you haven’t worked with would you like to collaborate?

Jan Delay

Rio Reiser. And Falco. That’s true, Falco isn’t German. But… There are a few. But I wanted to call them myself and not talk about it publicly. [question from audience] Oh, yes, but like I said before…

Davide Bortot

Dude, I thought you were a pro?

Jan Delay

Oh, yes. She wanted to know if I have had a plan B. And she thought our little talk was great. There wasn’t a plan B. But there was always a plan A. Of what I wanted to do later. I did study for three days once. I studied business with DJ Dynamite for like a day and half. Because you didn’t need good grades to get in. After one and a half days we just got up and left. I studied music until the end of the semester. At that point it was clear it would have something to do with music. I don’t know. Running a label or something, or becoming a manager, because at that point I assumed that there was making music and then there was making money and that it was difficult to combine the two, but by managing bands, it might be possible. I also wanted to be a cook once. But then I realized how early you have to get up for that.

Davide Bortot

One more question. Over there.

Audience member

Hello. You said earlier that the Mongo Clique clothing were only made for the actual members. But there was that bootleg online shop for a really long time. It just went offline.

Jan Delay

There were already bootlegs before the internet. They were selling them at the train station in Hanover. We tried to do something about it a few times. Because we weren’t happy about it. Not because we wanted a piece of the action, but because we didn’t want random people walking around in our sweaters. We tried to stop it. But they were shady guys, they just changed locations or just founded another fake company. After a while you just got tired of it. And the lawyers were very expensive. So we just let them be. Yes, that would have been a waste.

Davide Bortot

Ok, we can do one more .

Jan Delay

Maybe a good question that rounds up the evening. [laughs]

Audience member

OK, I think I got one. The three most famous Beginners albums are pretty clear–

Jan Delay

OK, not that question! [laughs]

Audience member

Advanced Chemistry and… How do you explain the extreme difference between the albums? They are all so different.

Jan Delay

You mean beginning with Bambule? OK. It always has something to do with the time they were made in. Bambule... No that’s too nerdy, they are just how we were at that point in time. That’s how they sound, I think. Bambule is Bambule and Advanced Chemistry is Bambule at 40. And the stuff in between is not that good. We made those because we wanted to make another album together. We weren’t so attentive to quality. So there is some stuff on there that should not be on there. Too much ego and too little help. We wanted to do it all on our own. There are some good songs on it. But also some not-so-good songs. Come on. Now a really good last question

Davide Bortot

There’s another question. A very determined raised hand.

Audience member

Yes, hello. We have heard that there are a lot of things you are embarrassed about. What is the most embarrassing thing? In those 27 years?

Jan Delay

Well, definitely that music video for “Liebes Lied.” There was another situation. It happened at MTV Open, Hip-Hop Open in Stuttgart. With the reggae album. And the first bands started at around 10 and around seven, when I started, the show was broadcast live, so I’m at this hip-hop festival with my reggae music and everyone I know is watching at home and then it’s starting, and I see my drummer fidgeting around and he tells me Hartmut’s click isn’t working. Click is a sound that is played in your ear that sets the tempo, and I knew if he didn’t have a click we had a serious problem, and it was live. Like, “We have to start, we have to start.” And he just couldn’t fix it. And they pressured us to start. And he started counting and already his tempo is too slow and I’m going onstage thinking, “Everybody can hear it, everybody can tell.” Reggae is slow as it is, but it just kept getting slower and I was singing like… Looking back at him, that was very embarrassing too. Because it was live on television. Otherwise I would have been relaxed about it.

Davide Bortot

But we have to end on a positive note.

Jan Delay

I think that was great.

Davide Bortot

OK then, another question.

Jan Delay

But I thought they had to watch a film here.

Davide Bortot

Yes. What’s playing anyways? Nevermind. Very last question. There in the center.

Audience member

What happened to the Werder Bremen (football team) anthem?

Jan Delay

It’s done. Yes. It’s done. I have to shoot a video. And Spotify. I have to take care of all that shit. Especially the video, and it’s turning out to be very complicated because the DFL [German Football League] owns all the rights. So if you want to shoot during a game or use footage it’s basically impossible. I don’t know if I should be saying this, I love the German Football League!

Davide Bortot

In reality he is hoping Bremen will qualify for the European Cup and that’s when he will finish the song.

Jan Delay

But the song is done and it’s great, and it will be released for the first game of the new season. But as people from Hamburg, you don’t really care, do you?

Davide Bortot

But everything else was really interesting. So a big round of applause for Jan Delay! [applause]