Ka

Jeff Mao

We’re very excited to welcome this gentleman here sitting next to me on the couch. He’s a producer, MC, video director, a great writer, but more importantly, a model of perseverance, I think. Won’t you please welcome Ka.

Ka

Thank you, I appreciate it. Thank you, Red Bull, for having me. Thanks Jeff, for another opportunity sitting and chat with you. I appreciate the people. I know y’all don’t know who I am, so thanks for even being patient and coming back in the room.

Jeff Mao

You’re too modest. I’ve told you this before, but you’re too modest. You make music that is deeply personal. People have used different adjectives to describe it, but I’m kind of curious to know: you, yourself, how would you describe it to the folks in the room here?

Ka

To me, it’s therapeutic. If I wasn’t doing it, then I’d probably be crazy. Not saying I’m not crazy now, but I’d be more crazy if I wasn’t able to just vent and just get all the stuff out and just kind of purge, and that’s what each album is, it’s like a purge. I can chill and be normal for a little while until it’s pent up again and I have to do it again. It’s more personal than anything.

Jeff Mao

I would like to just reset our ears with a piece of music from Ka. This is from…

Ka

Please don’t boo.

Jeff Mao

This is from his most recent release, which is entitled Honor Killed The Samurai, and it is called “Conflicted.”

(music: Ka – “Conflicted” / applause)

Ka

Thank you, I appreciate that. Thank you.

Jeff Mao

I wanted to play this song because it’s kind of a fitting introduction, in a way, to you. Lays out a number of different things about your subject matter, themes you explore. Sound of it as well. What do you feel this song evokes?

Ka

Well, it was the first song on the new album, and it’s like every album I do… I introduce… People that don’t know me, so every album is a new album. It’s the introduction of me to someone, so I want them to know the duality of man, and I’m showing you this in a song, so that was… My mother always told me to be good, my father was… Not that he ain’t tell me to be good, but he was… My father was a hood dude. I’m from Brownsville, Brooklyn. I don’t know if anybody familiar with that. I’m from a time in Brooklyn before the gentrification, it was rough out. I was in high school in ’86, I’m sure some of you wasn’t even born in ’86, but I saw a lot, and a lot of the gutter things that was going on, I was dealing with, and mother was telling me… Was trying to protect me from it. My father was trying to protect me from it, another way… By taking an offensive stance at it, so it was like I’m hearing it from both sides. “Be a good boy,” from Mom, and then Pop’s like, “Well, you got a gun, right?” It was things like that with those going on for me, and I just… that was just a song for that.

Jeff Mao

You have a different theme or motif that you explore on your most recent albums, I guess the last three or four. Honor Killed The Samurai is the title of this project. I’m just curious as to what it was about that culture that drew you to it. What was compelling about that that you could relate to?

Ka

I really like… Every album, I’m like, trying to learn. I’m reading more now, I’m trying to… I wasn’t really too good in school, so now this is my opportunity to become a smarter man or whatever, so every album is like, I’m doing an album to do an album, but I’m also like, “Yo, I can study now and learn,” so I was diving into… Growing up, I was into karate flicks, and then I saw the Japanese flicks where it wasn’t all the pageantry of the karate flicks, it was just one sword swipe, the fight is over. As a kid, I was like, “This ain’t exciting,” but growing up I was like… This became dope to me, so I just started diving into what a samurai was, and their code of honor. I was like, “This is just dope.” I started getting into it more and more, and I’m on it now. I think them taking their lives for honor was just something that I felt like I was doing for my art.

The aspect of hip-hop that I do, I pride myself in the lyrics. I feel like that’s not really important as much any more in the art of hip-hop. It’s a lot more style now, and who you are, but just that pen. I want my pen to be perfect. That’s what I’m striving to be, an amazing writer. Nobody really cares about that, really, in the art right now, but I care about it, so I’m going to make sure that I’m right. It’s like… In samurai perspective, I’m hurting my, maybe, career, maybe from [the perspective of] onlookers. Me, I’m good, but from other people, “You writing all these rhymes, but you not on the radio,” but I don’t really care about that. I’m doing what I want to do. The honor and the samurai thing, I’m taking my life, in a way, to treasure what I treasure, so that’s what that was from.

Jeff Mao

What does honor mean to you? Do you see it out here? Is it something in life as you encounter people here and there that you feel that there’s a shortage of, or is it just something you embraced because of your own experiences?

Ka

I’ve always been around people of honor, and to me it’s just you following your path and not compromising. That’s just… This is my passion, this is what I want to do. It’s not what’s popping right now, but am I going to… A person of honor is going to do what they do, regardless to what the outside is saying, so that’s me. I’m doing what I do regardless of what the noise might be. That’s honorable. It’s artistically honorable to me. I’m not a sociable dude, as far as peers. I speak to a couple cats but on the whole I’m not really in the mix. Everybody that I know, honorable as far their music but I don’t know the outside of what hip-hop is, I don’t know. I would hope that they doing their passion, I would hope.

Jeff Mao

You mention Brownsville, Ho’ and Saratoga.

Ka

Hopkinson and Saratoga. I don’t think they call it Hopkinson anymore but I always call it Hopkinson. I think they call it Thomas S. Boyland but that’s the block I was raised on, Ho’ Street. That’s the block that molded me to be who I am. Saw a lot of things on that block. Did a lot of things to rep that block when I was a kid. 63 Hell St. was the address. It was a different kind of living back then.

Jeff Mao

I’d like to run the first video if we can, just to give us a little bit of additional context on Brownsville. This is a little bit before, probably a little bit before your time. Still setting the atmosphere of what was going on. If you could run that first video that would be great, thank you.

(video: Life Inside A New York ghetto 1971)

That’s 1971.

Ka

I was born in ’72.

Jeff Mao

Obviously, these things did not disappear in 1972.

Ka

Not that fast.

Jeff Mao

… Or in the years immediately after. What do you recall just on a day to day level, just living life as a kid amongst these circumstances?

Ka

It’s funny because when you born and raised in that you don’t even notice something is wrong. Until I started watching Different Strokes. I was like, “We don’t live like that. What is this right here?” That was just normal. I used to play in abandoned buildings with my friends. I caught the ringworms in the lot next door. I used to be able to see five blocks down, just through lots. It’s what it was. It was different, it was a different... I can’t even explain, to explain it to people who were just like, what is... I’m sure y’all were appalled by that but that was, “Oh yeah, that’s Chester St. Of course it look like that.”

I didn’t know until I got older that I was fucked up, nahmean. Just having my whole formative years of going through that, of course I’m damaged from that. The art right now is helping me heal through that. I would get candy from the dope fiends because the dope fiends, if you don’t know, they always like candy after their high. I would get candy from the dope fiends. Then the dope went away and the crack heads came. It was a lot of drugs, a lot of violence and it was crazy but that’s what made me.

Jeff Mao

Do you remember the moment when crack hit?

Ka

Oh yeah, I remember. I remember it was like gradual. Everything’s weed and then dope and then cocaine started moving in. The fly kids were on cocaine. They used to be smoking woo's and bones. The Wu-Tang songs you hear them talking about woo's right? They would gut a cigarette out of the tobacco and fill it with cocaine and smoke it. A bone, they would sprinkle some coke in the weed, in the joint and they would blow. Then they started sniffing coke and then I think that Richard Pryor thing, when he was freebasing, the making of crack. I hope I’m not giving y’all no drug lesson, y’all don’t need that. (laughs) They was freebasing and then the freebasing went to crack, which was a quicker form of it.

As a kid I used to see the vials on the corner. I knew some other kids younger than me they used to be picking up, “I got a bunch of red ones, I got a bunch of blue ones, I got a bunch of gold ones.” They would be picking up crack vials. I knew the smell like that funny smell, that’s crack. The name crack came from the crackling of the... when they smoked it, it would crackle, so they called it crack. If you thought that was bad it got even worse. It was worse than that in the ’80s, it was a nightmare. It was prostitutes on the corner of my block. Then unfortunately, I was in a house with a lot of us. It was at least 13 of us in the house. Of the 13, if you never lived with a crack head, B, don’t ever live with a crack head. They will steal everything you have. From the transition of being cool and recreational drugs, to smoking crack and then now you’re a crack head, it was wack living.

Jeff Mao

When did music become something that captivated you?

Ka

Again, I was born at the right time where disco was dying and hip-hop came about. Whatever this hip-hop shit was. They were speaking to me. It was more like, party, party music, party music. I told you before, soon as I was hearing Melle Mel talk about, “Bill collectors at my door, scare my wife when I’m not home,” and all that. “I can’t walk through the park because it’s crazy after dark, keep my hand on my gun because they got me on the run.” I was like, “Oh, they talking to me.” This is what I’m seeing. I’m not going to no parties, I’m out here in the street and it’s rough. That’s when it became an escape. As a young kid I was like, “Let me write a little something and try to be a rapper.” Then it became, that was the way for me to pull away from all the shit I’m seeing and just get my composition book and write. I’ve been doing this forever and that’s helped me out.

Jeff Mao

You were seeing these things happening around you, at what point were you participating in any of this stuff?

Ka

Oh early, early. I was the youngest of the cousins, I had a lot of role models, bad role models obviously. They were in it, they selling coke, they selling crack. I’m being broke. I speak to my cousin, La, “How we going to sell some... I need some money too. I like that beeper you got. These new shoes, I want that too.” I got introduced into just selling drugs. I didn’t have to go far to learn. I just talked to him like, “Yo, what we doing? How we doing this?” I got into it. I didn’t like it because it was weird to me. Put like this, my cousins were selling drugs, my aunt was on drugs, my cousin was selling drugs, his sister was on drugs, his brother was on drugs. In the house, we had drug dealers and drug takers, all in the same house, it was just a weird dynamic. I’m seeing this, like, “Yes, I want to get money,” but, “Yes, also, somebody’s destroying my household, too, by just doing the same thing.” It was like, you know, should I be greedy? Or should I be, you know like, a... I mean, I was young, this was too much to process at fucking 12 years old, like you know what I’m saying. I’m just like, “All right, fuck it, let’s just go make money,” and, you know, “Let’s walk around with guns because that’s what everybody is doing and we’re not fighting no more, we gone have to start shooting each other,” and that’s just what it was. It was weird. Me, I was thrown in.

Jeff Mao

Yeah.

Ka

I’m surprised I’m here right now, so, it’s good that I survived all that.

Jeff Mao

I mean, it’s important to mention, because I think from the outside, you know, people who may have a more conservative perspective on things will say, “Well just don’t, don’t get involved.” And it’s not that simple.

Ka

Oh yeah, it’s not that simple, it’s like, you want to be the sucker? You want to be the sucker in Brownsville? I don’t think so. I mean, you don’t want to be the sucker wherever you are from. To be a sucker, where there’s a bunch of predators, that ain’t it. I wasn’t a sucker... I’m going to do it, I’m going to do what we’re doing. This is what we’re doing? I’m doing that. You know what I mean? Just to be, not ostracized in the neighborhood, you know like, yeah, you know, we got guns, we got guns, too, so whatever.

Jeff Mao

I mean, Mike Tyson was from Brownsville?

Ka

Yeah.

Jeff Mao

He got picked on.

Ka

Yeah, exactly. That’s what made him Tyson, right, somebody like snapped the neck on one of his birds and he went, he became Tyson, you know what I mean? (laughs) See, when I was young, Tyson was already like boom, Tyson was a multimillionaire. I remember Tyson coming through the block one day, nice you know, he had this... He might have come in the limo, which was classy back then, limousines, and there was a dude on the corner, his name was Meat, and he had a pigeon coop on the corner, on the roof, and Tyson came to him, messed with the pigeons, even came to him Thanksgiving and gave like, some turkeys out, good dude, man, good dude.

Jeff Mao

So, when did you actually have the ambition to record, to take the rhyming thing more seriously? You said it was an escape, you know. When did, how did that gradually become more important to you?

Ka

One of my cousins, who was getting money, he saw that… I’m in my book, you know, “What are you writing? What are you writing all the time?” Older cousin, my cousin Deon, the man. He was like, “What are you writing man?” I’m like, “I’m just writing my little raps.” “Let me hear something, let me hear something.” I was, I wasn’t good, but he was my family, he loved me, so he was just like, you know, as you tell little shorty, to encourage him, “Yo, that’s good,” you know what I’m saying, just keep getting better. Again, like I said, he was doing his thing, he was getting money, he gave me a thousand dollars in like ’89, ’90, something like that, and he gave me a million dollars, it was like, “Yo, go to the studio and do some you know, do some music.”

That was like my entrée into it, and it just made it serious. Back then everything was demo, demo, demo. It’s not like how right now, a thousand dollars, you can go make an album and put it on the internet, there was no internet back then, you know what I mean? I had to go to the studio, you know, get somebody to make a beat for me, it was a process, I had to pay for studio time, which was whatever, $100 an hour and all that, you know, and that’s what the start was, and you know, I was just like, yo, after that I made connections, because then you become legit, like I got a real demo, like it doesn’t have to be good, but it’s like, “Oh, he’s serious about this,” so, now I make connections with other people that’s rapping and, “Oh yeah, you come to the studio for free now.”

Jeff Mao

I guess eventually, at some point, one of the folks that you connected with later was Mr. Voodoo, was that right?

Ka

Yeah, Mr. Voodoo. I’m sure they don’t know who that is, but it was a crew in New York was called Natural Elements and they were like an underground group. They were getting a lot of acclaim and the head dude, the more famous of them, Mr. Voodoo, we went to school together. We went to city college together. Back then, as probably now, the loudest ones are the ones that don’t do it so well. I was doing it pretty loud, everybody knew I’m rhyming. I’m rhyming for everybody. He must have saw something, he was like, “Yo, come to the studio.” I got into this group called Natural Elements. Charlemagne was the producer, he produced for all of us. It was L-Swift, Big Tim, Stex, G-Blass. It was a bunch of us and we would go to the Bronx every Saturday and be in the studio. He’d be making beats for all of us. “That’s for you, this is for you.” We’d battle him for this beat and all that.

That helped me to know how to structure a song. Back then, I was just writing rhymes. I had pages and pages and books and I had a duffle bag of just raps on receipts and the back of transfers on buses. I was rapping just to rap. They did let me know, “OK, this is how you make a song. You break that up and this is a bar right here, this is a hook, and this is that.” With that, they helped me become a better artist. It was a progression to start making songs.

Jeff Mao

Do you think you were nice back then?

Ka

I was dead garbage back then. I was trash back then. I knew I wanted to do it and I knew I had something to say. It takes time to find your voice. Some kids are prodigies, they just they got it immediately. I was not a prodigy, it took me time to find my voice. I got help, Natural Elements was one of the stages to get me to another plateau. The next plateau was I did another group with my boy, god rest his soul, one of my best friends Kev. We were in a group called Nightbreed. This was in the later ’90s and he was stellar. Step me up to be better. That was another plateau for me to reach, doing songs with him. I’m listening to the song, his parts are incredible, my part’s kind of corny, like... this was my man, he loved me. This was like, we did songs and eventually I got up to snuff and that was another plateau.

Jeff Mao

You don’t... you glossed over some of this stuff, you really don’t want me to play any of this early stuff of yours? You always say you hate it…

Ka

I got... people clap for me, please don’t make them boo for me now, man. Come on, man.

Jeff Mao

I’m not going to make them boo, but let’s just give a little context, alright? This is a track actually, Natural Elements featuring Ka. Let’s switch it up a little bit...

Ka

Do your thing.

Jeff Mao

I’m not going to play the one... Maybe you don’t hate this one as much, it’s called "Triple Team."

(music: Natural Elements ft. Ka – “Triple Team” / applause)

Ka

Thank you, thank you. You heard three voices. The two good voices you heard was Mr. Voodoo and L-Swift. The more gravely voice was K A, that’s who I was before Ka. That was me.

Jeff Mao

You decided to step away from this group. Why?

Ka

Because I was bad. I felt like I was holding it back. I was like, “Yo, these kids are dope.” There was a time where again, I don’t ever want to hold nobody back. I’m like, “They could skyrocket if it wasn’t for me”, I knew I was bringing them down. But they were doing me a solid by putting me in the group, so I felt like I needed to do them a solid and be like, “Boom, go do your thing”. I stepped away, and they filled that spot with a dude called A-Butta, who was very, he was in pocket with them immediately and they made some great music together. As soon as I left, boom, they got signed by Tommy Boy. Great. I was happy for them. Then I went to go do the music with my boy from down the block, which was my man Kev.

Jeff Mao

How does Nightbreed sound to you now?

Ka

It depends on what song you play. But I love Nightbreed, because that was more, that was my boy. We were in each other’s houses writing, and talking about real experiences that we were doing at the time. I’ll forever love Nightbreed, that’s one of my best friends.

Jeff Mao

Let’s hear a little bit of Nightbreed. “Two Roads Out The Ghetto”.

(music: Nightbreed – “Two Roads Out The Ghetto” / applause)

Ka

That was hard, that was a hard one right there. That was my best friend, and he just died recently, so it’s just tough to hear his voice.

Jeff Mao

I think in addition to the camaraderie you can hear with you guys, you are already forecasting how you want to approach this music. Even in these things, which I know you hear sometimes.

Ka

Well, I wanted to talk about real shit.

Jeff Mao

Yeah.

Ka

I wanted to talk about real, not just, “My raps, my raps.” I wanted to talk about what was going on.

Jeff Mao

At the same time, you’ve stepped away again. I think this is an important part of your story. The different instances in which you decided, obviously incorrectly, that you’re not good enough to do this, and you took a break, or you stepped away. What happened here?

Ka

After that, we thought we were good. We thought we were going to do it. I started hearing that we sounded better. I wasn’t mad at that one, that was the first time I started, “Oh, I ain’t that bad.” But we were doing songs, and doing songs, and had singles and all that. But this is the time when everybody was rapping. Everybody halfway sounded decent in New York. Doing the lyricist lounges, and doing all that. We didn’t get a record deal, we didn’t get a deal. That’s what it was. You shop your demo, and then you get a record deal, and then it’s on. Then you can do what you do.

We didn’t get one. But we kept grinding, kept grinding, kept grinding. Then it just got to a point where it was like, “Are we too... Are we bugging? Should we be... We’ve got families, man. Let’s go get some money.” My boy, as you heard in the song, he had a daughter at the time. I was like, “Should we be taking this childhood dream bullshit of being rappers, and say fuck it, and just go get some jobs? Just be men.” Because that’s what it was. You could be a dreamer for a little while, but then you’ve got to start being like, “Alright, this ain’t us.” At the time, that’s what I was thinking. That’s what happened. We just quit. “This ain’t happening for us, let’s just go get money.”

Jeff Mao

But what happened? You came back to it.

Ka

Yeah, that’s the thing. It was a passion. I didn’t know what a passion was until this hip-hop shit. It wouldn’t let me go, I couldn’t stop. I think about rhymes all the time. When I’m talking to somebody, and they say something, I’m hearing the rhyme that would go perfectly with that. Or I’m listening to other people’s songs, and I’m like, “He rhymed that wrong. He should have rhymed this. That shit would have hit right.” I couldn’t stay away from the shit. It was like, I’m trying to. I threw books away, I threw all my notebooks away. I was like, “I’m not doing this shit no more. Fuck this shit, it ruined my life.” But I couldn’t stop, so I came back with the help of people that loved me, and were like, “You’re good. Just do it.” That’s how I got back.

Jeff Mao

What did you do? What did you work on?

Ka

I worked on an album that nobody has ever heard. But I started getting back into it. Like, “You know what? It was always group, group, group. This time, it’s just going to be Ka. I’m just going to do an album, just for me.” I worked on a couple albums to just get me right, to the point that then I did Iron Works. But Iron Works was the album that I did that wasn’t supposed to go to anyone except the people I love. For all these years, I’m telling you all, “I’m going to the studio, I’m going to the studio.” You say that studio shit for enough years, people are like, “The fuck are you doing? I haven’t heard from you. How come I’m not hearing you on the radio? You’re talking this studio shit like you must...” This was for all the people I was telling, “I’m going to the studio.” I wanted to give them a CD like, “Boom, thanks for being my friend all these years”. So I did that first album. Which, I don’t even know the date. 2007 maybe? I don’t know.

Jeff Mao

2008.

Ka

2008, I think that’s when I might have... I think people just gravitated to it, 2008. But I think I actually had it in people’s hands, I gave it to my cousins and I gave it to my friends in 2007. It was an album that, the first free material that I did. Not free as far as money wise, free as far as, “I don’t care.” I didn’t give a fuck what nobody thought. “This is my shit right here, I’m giving it to you. Love it or hate it, but this is me. This is my contribution to hip-hop.” All these years since I was eight years old, I wanted to be a rapper. I had nothing to show for it. I’m like, “This is crazy, let me do an album.” Then technology was around to the point that I could do an album. And it wasn’t an album/demo to, “Let’s go do an album, but I want the majors to hear it so I can get a record deal.” No, it was, “I’m doing an album, give it to you. As soon as I give it to you, you can use it as a frisbee, or you can bump it.” It didn’t matter to me. It was great to just finally do music like that. It was like a breakthrough for me, boom, I’m doing it, like I’m an artist.

Jeff Mao

And it got into somebody’s hands.

Ka

Yeah. My wife has a friend that knew a friend, and then another friend’s cousin... Anyway, it got to the hands of GZA from Wu, from the Wu-Tang, which I respect and is, to me, one of the best lyricists ever in the craft. He sat and heard it, listened to it. Which is weird because I know he gets CD all the time. The fact that he listened to it was a salute. He didn’t just listen to it, he heard it and was like, “Yo, Duke is nice,” and he wanted to do a song with me, which I thought was just industry bullshit talk like, “yeah, I’ll do a song with him.”

I get a call when I’m at work one day from GZA saying, “I’m in the studio now, I want to do a joint with you.” I’m like, “Word? Alright.” I left work and headed to the studio. I’m thinking there’s going to be a bunch of dudes in there because I never met him before. I’m thinking there’s going to be a posse cut, like there’s going to be eight of us rhyming, I’m going to say about four lines and then I’m over.

I get in there and it’s just him in the studio. He’s like, “Yo, I’ve been listening to what you got and I think I got a beat for you that I think you’ll rock on.” I’m excited. I’m going to the studio, I’m going to the booth and I spit the first verse. I’m done. I’m excited. I’m like, “Oh yeah.” Then he looks in the booth and was like, “You got more?” And I was like, “I got 20 years more. What you need?” (laughs) He let me just go and do my thing on the whole song. We did the hook and he put it on his album. I had a song on GZA’s album. It was kind of like validation to me.

Jeff Mao

How do you feel about that song?

Ka

“Firehouse,” it’s fire.

Jeff Mao

All right, good. Let’s listen to a little bit of “Firehouse” by GZA featuring Ka.

(music: GZA ft. Ka – “Firehouse” / applause)

Ka

Thank you, thank you.

Jeff Mao

Now, for people who know your music or are familiar with your music, these older songs are an anomaly in a way. You sound different. Your delivery is different. Obviously the attention to what you’re writing is there. The first song we played, “Conflicted,” represents where you are.

Ka

Right now, yeah yeah yeah.

Jeff Mao

And where you have been, to some degree, it’s evolved as well. When did you decide, “OK, I’m not projecting my voice that way anymore, I’m going to use my voice a different way?” When did you decide that?

Ka

With maturity. I’m in my 40s so as you get older... You ever hear an old man like, “Yo, keep that noise down. Keep that noise down,” I’m that old man now. Keep that noise down. Even for me. I don’t want to hear no yelling like, “Easy.” I don’t want to hear it. You’ll get there one day. You’ll understand me. I couldn’t continue to be yelling. My youthful angst rap days are over. I did that already, it was cool. I’m becoming something else. I’m in my mature rap stage. Very introspective. I don’t need to yell. It’s like I’m dreaming. My dreams aren’t yelling. That just made me bring it down. I think I was yelling back in the days because I always wanted people like, “You heard what I said? Did you hear that? Did you hear that bar? That bar was crazy. He went with that line.” Now I’m like, “You catch it at your leisure.” I don’t want you to catch everything on the first listen.

I want you to be listening to it years from now and be like, “Oh, that was crazy.” The fact that I didn’t yell made it more profound, I feel. That’s just my perspective. I had to turn it down a notch. I’m just speaking. I wanted to be... This ain’t jams. I’m not making jams. It’s not radio songs. These are very personal songs. When you have it in your headphone when you’re on the train or you’re just going through something, you put this on if you decide to put me on.

Now I’m in that room with you, chilling. I’m talking with you. I’m building with you. That’s what it was. If you ever heard the term building, two people talking and exchanging ideas. We call it building. It’s like that’s what I’m doing. I’m building with you in these songs. I had to turn it down.

Jeff Mao

You also began producing yourself.

Ka

(applause) Thank you, thank you. I appreciate it. Salute to whoever started that. That was fire. (laughs)

Jeff Mao

Right over there. You started producing your own beats as well. Coming into it relatively late in the game. How did that benefit you, you think? Because some of the things that we’ve discussed this week at the Academy have related to that. How you can not know the right way to do things or the traditional way to do things and in a way that’s giving you a fresher perspective. Is that how you felt?

Ka

Oh, definitely. I came into this as an eight year old wanting to be the illest MC ever. After times, I just wanted to write rhymes. That’s all I wanted to do. It takes more than just writing rhymes to be an MC nowadays in 2016 and forever on. I couldn’t just write rhymes and think that I’m going to be heard. After chasing people for beats and then getting into the beat game like, “Yo, that beat is...” You go to a producer and they’ve got a beat that’s really, really good. They’re not giving it to me. They’re going to give it to the person that they’re going to make that be heard. I cannot even fault them on that. If me and Kanye are in the same room and this producer got a beat and me and Kanye say, “I like that,” who do you think he’s giving that beat to? Kanye is going to make it where the world is going to hear it. That producer is now going to, in turn, get more work. I understand.

I’m not in that game, though. I’m not trying to play your beat games. I’m going to make my own so that now Kanye won’t hear my beat. I won’t have to be battling with him for my beat. I make my own beats then I rhyme to my own beats. If I make something that’s dope, I’m the only one sitting on it knowing that I made something that’s dope. It just got to that point that I just didn’t want to... I wanted to be more self reliant. That where that came from.

Jeff Mao

How do you decide what works best for your voice, for your delivery, and for your subject matter?

Ka

Well, there’s a certain aesthetic I’m looking for. I like dark. I’ve always written from dark places. It was me escaping darkness that made me write. I’m looking for tones that can just complement what I’m doing. My voice is kind of lower, sometimes it’s raspy, this that and the third. I’m not trying to yell over beats. I’ve said it before, a beat’s not done until I’m the last instrument on it. I want to be the one that just complements the beat.

I cannot even tell you what I’m looking for just like all the artists in the room right now. You don’t know what you look for. You just know when you have it. When I know I have it, that’s when all of a sudden I shut down and I become the MC that I want to become.

Jeff Mao

Let’s listen to something from the album Grief Pedigree. This track is entitled “Vessel.”

(music: Ka – “Vessel” / applause)

Ka

Dope, dope, dope. Thank you, thank you. I like that joint, that’s one of my favorites. That wrote itself, really, basically.

Jeff Mao

Why is that one of your favorites?

Ka

The points that I was touching; I remember writing that one, being very happy with that when I was in my room writing that one. Just something about it, I feel that one. It’s one of the ones I like performing. I’m into that one heavy.

Jeff Mao

“This might be god that’s speaking, it’s just my mouth moving.”

Ka

Yeah. I’m not under the guise like, “Yo, it’s me, I’m so dope!” I know some of these lines that I get and some of the stuff that I come, it’s like, this came from somewhere else. Like I said, it might be god speaking, it’s just my mouth is moving, so I’m not… It’s not, “Me, me, me, I’m dope, I’m so talented.” I’m not that dude, so a lot of the stuff, I’m sure, is gifts. I wake up with rhyme sometimes. That ain’t me. Wherever it came from, whatever your supreme being you believe it is, it came from somewhere, so that’s why I said that. (applause) Thank you, man, thank you. Too kind, too kind. Can I take y’all with me to my shows?

Jeff Mao

You don’t do shows, though.

Ka

I don’t do shows. You’re right. Forget it! You’re right, I don’t do shows.

Jeff Mao

I’m curious to know, though, why don’t you do shows? Is it because you have some sort of shyness as far as performing or is this what you feel is the best mode of presentation?

Ka

It’s a lot of reasons why I don’t do shows. One is, I don’t know if this is show music. That’s one. That’s just me, this is personal music. For now. I know some people want to see me perform, and I’m going to go out there and do this for the people, but for now, it’s like, I just don’t know if this is that kind of… If you’re not into me, then you won’t understand what I’m saying, but if anybody in here listens to my music, I know this is something that’s very personal, because it’s personal for me, so if you’re into my sound, then it’s like, do you see yourself in a party like that, listening to my stuff? I did a couple shows, right, I had a nice show in… I did the Pitchfork Festival a couple years back, and it was great, the people were great, but they were all looking at me like this [crossed arms pose].

Not that they weren’t happy, because after the song was over, then they clapped and all that, but it just felt weird to me, like, “Did I just drag these people out here to be all somber? They could have did that shit in they house!” I’m bringing you out here to actually, maybe make you cry. I don’t want to do that.

Jeff Mao

You mention duality in your writing, which is this recurring thing throughout. I think one interesting way that manifests itself in what you do is just the wordplay. Using the same word, phonetically sounding the same, but it’s two different words. Is that something you can kind of… I know this might be very specific, but is it something you can kind of break down? This writing thing is your passion, and is there a way for you to sort of explain that component of it to those of us who don’t write rhymes, and how tricky that is to do?

Ka

To be a MC, or to be a lyricist… There’s a lot of MCs, but to be a lyricist, it’s about… You ever heard the term, “Yo, he got bars, he got bars?” You might have heard that. “He got bars, he got bars.” What that means is that he says something very, very slick and very profound in that one or two lines that was like, crazy. I want that. Growing up listening to hip-hop, I heard a lot of slick lines and was like, “Wow, how’d he come up with that?” I wanted to be that dude for the listeners now, like, “Yo, that shit was incredible, how’d he come up with that?” Or “Yo, that was so deep, it meant… It had… There’s a triple entendre!” That’s what everybody’s looking for. Or the quadruple entendre or whatever. That’s what I… I’m trying to do that, you know? In the rhymes, in the wordplay of it, I’m trying to think of something to be so slick, but still be relevant to what I’m saying. I’m not trying to say… It’s a lot of MCs that, they just rhyming to rhyme. They rapping to give you those double, triple entendres, in just a song. Just rhymes. I’m trying to do it in the context of what I do. That’s what I’m trying to do. I don’t know if I explained that right.

Jeff Mao

Do you have any specific examples of line wordplay like that, how that would work?

Ka

I’d rather them… They’ll just find it. I like people to… I don’t want to tell… That’s the one thing, I don’t want to annotate my rhymes, because you might hear something that is incredible to you, and I don’t want to fuck that up by saying, “I really said this.” The thing I always say all the time is like, when you’re looking at a painting, or a sculpture, I don’t have Leonardo Da Vinci telling me, “Well, this is what I was trying to do.” I just want to look at and get from what I want, like, “Yo, this shit is beautiful,” and whatever the feelings and what I come up… What I think of it as when I’m looking at it, that’s what I want y’all to have, so when you listening to me, I don’t want to be in the back of your head like, “Nah, you know I said this right here.” And, “Yo, you know, listen, we were coming right now, this is crazy, this, this, this,” like, nah, I want you to just appreciate it. Love it, hate it, whatever, how it is, but I want it to fall to you as it falls to you. So if I tell you a line right now, I’m going to fuck up a song for them. You know what I’m saying? “Oh, but yo,” so I don’t want them to...

Jeff Mao

But that’s... that makes sense though. Because it is a discovery process with listening to new music, because it requires...

Ka

It requires listening. Listen, I’m asking a lot of my listeners, and I thank them, but I’m asking you to sit down, cut the lights off, and just listen. Like, yo, cut your phone off, cut the lights off, tell nobody don’t mess with you for the next half an hour, and just listen. So that’s a lot, especially in this instant gratification time, so it’s kind of hard. So I’m asking people to do something that they really don’t have... They’re not used to doing right now.

What I used to do, me and Jeff, we’re dating ourselves, we used to have headphones, be on the train with a CD, well not a CD, with a tape, and that tape would just go and go and go while you’re on your ride to your train. I’m not fast-forwarding that tape because it makes the... Fast-forwarding, reversing, drains the batteries. So we know that, so you’re listening to songs that you might not listen to, and that song that you hated, by the time you went from Rockaway Avenue to 42nd Street, that song wasn’t that bad. And then you’re listening to it again and again and you’re hearing things that the person said, as opposed to now, where you get 30 seconds, if you’re going to buy that song. “Am I going to buy that song? 30 seconds, I don’t like that song. OK, I like that song. Oh no, I don’t like that song.” We had to listen to whole albums and whole songs to ascertain whether we liked it or not, and it was more of a complete thing. I think I’m going off on a tangent, so I’m going to chill.

Jeff Mao

I’d like to play video number two, if we could, just to sort of also shed some light on this self-sufficiency of yours, in addition to making the music, producing the music, rhyming, you distribute the music, you direct the videos, so it’s a very DIY operation.

Ka

Yeah, you’re making me sound like I’m somebody, man. Well, I had to. I had to do that. Of course I’m going to write the rhymes, then I had to make the beats, so I’d have to actually produce these funny beats. Then I’m looking, I’m sitting at home with my wife, and we’re like, “Alright, we did an album, how do we make people listen to this now?” So, like, “Yo, let’s make a video!” So I’m calling people... Well, it wasn’t, “Let’s make a video,” it was, “Let’s get a video done.” I’m calling people, like, “Yo, can you do a video? 30 grand? 30 thousand for a video? B, I’m not a rich man.” So now I’m like, “Can we shoot a video?” So, you know, my wife is amazing, B. So she bought a camera, she went out in the middle of the night in these hoods, you know what I’m saying? Like, shooting videos with me, and we took it home, edited it, and we looked at each other like, “Is this good? I guess it’s good. Let’s just put it on YouTube.” And then a couple people started checking it out, and then, you know, things happened.

Jeff Mao

This is actually from The Night’s Gambit. Track is entitled, “Peace Akhi”, and the music video by Ka. So let’s check it out.

(video: Ka – “Peace Akhi” / applause)

Ka

Thank you, thank you.

Jeff Mao

If the music, as you prefer people to listen to it, is without any distraction, I mean, is it counter-intuitive in a way to produce a visual accompaniment to it?

Ka

Well, I was for... You’re right. But that was so that people could know who the hell I am. I still would like more people to acknowledge the music than to... I want people that needed to find it. So if I didn’t do any visuals for it, then it’s probably, a lot of people that won’t find it. I’m one of those artists that you discover, you know, haphazardly, you’re going through YouTube, like, “Oh, who’s this? Boom, OK.”

But I’m doing videos so that people can find out about me. So I’ve got 20-something videos now, maybe one of them might be linked to one of your favorite videos, and you stumble upon it, and you know, you like it or not. So that’s what it’s for.

Jeff Mao

I think the line that always stands out to me in this is, “Pain in spoken form.”

Ka

Yes. That’s what I feel like I’m doing. I’m probably depressed, probably, who knows, I haven’t sat with anybody, but if you listen to the music, you’ll be like, “Yeah, this dude is depressed.” But that’s what I’m doing. I feel like I’m pain in the spoken form, like that’s what I’m giving you. I’ve got five albums of pain, you know what I mean? In the spoken form.

So that’s, I feel like, this is definitely, that’s my lane, that’s my pocket. If you coming to me for party songs, don’t come to me. I’m going to tell you that right now, if you’re like, “I love my music very exciting,” I’m not your dude, alright? I’m not him. You just lost your favorite uncle and you’re about to start... you just want to know, can somebody get through this pain? Yes. You listen to me, and I’ve been through that, and we’ll get through it together. That’s what I feel like I am.

Jeff Mao

I mean, you’ve done a lot of this on your own. You have started to sort of widen your circle a little bit in terms of collaboration. Everybody in this room is collaborating just with people they’ve never met before.

Ka

Which is dope.

Jeff Mao

How do you... How are you able to build the trust of who you work with?

Ka

I only do music... My music is super personal. I only do music with people I consider friends. That’s just a decision that I made. I’ve become really close friends with Roc Marciano, if anybody knows my music, I’m sure they know his. A really good brother, he helped me out a lot. I also did an album with a friend of mine now. His name is DJ Preservation, I call him Prez. We did an album together, where he did all of the music and I was rhyming. We called ourselves Dr. Yen Lo, the name of the album was Days with Dr. Yen Lo.

That’s how I feel. I can’t do songs with the... “Yo, email me this song, email me the beat.” I can’t do that. I have to be able to communicate and be friends with a person. That’s just what I want to do, I know music is forever, I know the power of music and I know it’s forever and I want to... I need to know if your energy is right. Sounds weird but it’s just me. I can’t do a song with a person I never met just because they send me an email, but that’s me. I’m from, I’m an older person. I know that young kids are like, “What? You don’t do email songs?” Yeah that’s me, I got to get with the person, we go to studio together, we do an album, we do the songs. That’s how I work.

Jeff Mao

I remember once you told me back then, back in the day, you didn’t want to be the 30-year-old rapper, that was like a terrible thing.

Ka

Yeah I didn’t want to, what it was… It was just like hip-hop is, we know hip-hop is, it’s ageist. It’s a youth sound, it’s a young… While I was young and rhyming and rhyming, I didn’t think about it until I didn’t get on, and now I’m 30 years old rapping, and it was associates would be like, “You still rhyming?” I’m ashamed to say, “Yeah.” Like, “No, I don’t rhyme no more,” like, lying and shit, but I had to come to grips with... “Hold on man.” In other genres, in blues, you ain’t official until you 50. You know what I mean? (laughs) You can’t tell me no pain is no 12 year old. Maybe you can, but unless you an older man. I’m like, I shouldn’t let my age scare me to do something that I just love doing.

What I want, for you guys, is a quick little something like, are you prepared to do what you’re doing when it ain’t cool no more? That’s a passion. What I’m doing necessarily ain’t cool no more, right? Writing rhymes and shit as a 40-year-old man. That ain’t cool for some, it’s cool for me, I’m good with it, you know what I’m saying? Don’t get it fucked up. Whatever the hot genre is right now and everybody’s doing it, are you going to be prepared to do that when it ain’t cool no more? When you’re like a weirdo doing... It might be somebody right now in they house, a 60-year-old man that’s still doing disco. That shit ain’t cool no more, but he love that shit. I got to salute that man for that. You know what I mean? I’m the 40 year old still fucking rapping. It took me a long time, and support from people that love me, that says, “Yo, man, you good. Who cares how old you are.” I didn’t want to be the 30-year-old rapper, because that’s like a cliché diss. If I’m the 40-year-old, 30- or 40- or 50- or 60-year-old rapper that’s still got bars, as we know what bars are now, then what can you say to me? If I’m still doing what I love, then what can you say? (applause) Thank you.

Jeff Mao

You also, at a certain point... I think one of the important things for us to mention, is you mention you have a job, you have been doing music this entire time, but you’re realistic enough to decide, “Hey, I got to just go out there and have a regular life.”

Ka

Yeah, I had to work. My job is... It made me be the artist that I could be. I never had to compromise myself because I know, I’m able to eat from my job. I go to work, I have a job, I can eat, I can pay my mortgage. I can eat. I didn’t have to like, “Wait, I know my music is kind of...” What I love to do with music, doesn’t really appeal to the masses. "Let me go and do a jam that’s more sounding like the sound of the times so that I can be popular and go on tour, and make that money." I didn’t need that. I’m good. All I care about is that, “Can I eat and do I have a house?” Can I live? Me having a job just let me be the artist I can be, free. I can do what I want. I do what I want to do, artistically, with no one telling me a thing.

I’m the record label owner, and I’m the artist. I’m the only artist. I let my artist do what the hell he want to do, and I just pay for it, as the president of that label. If you want me as your label president, nahmean. You want yourself as your label president. Listen, as artists we are, we all are artists over business. That’s how we get manipulated most of the time, because it’s like, “I just want to do my art.” I don’t want to read those papers, those contracts. If you’re your own boss, you won’t jerk yourself, and you’ll let your artist run wild with your own money. I know some of you probably are like, “I’m an artist, I’m not working, I’m not getting a job.” Just know, that you’re speaking to an artist that has a job and it let me be a better artist because I’m not compromising in any way. Just something to think about, in your future.

Jeff Mao

Do you want to talk any specifics about your job?

Ka

I mean, you want to ask me, ask me. Ask me.

Jeff Mao

What do you do, what do you do for a living?

Ka

I’m a fireman. I’m a New York City firefighter. (applause) Thank you, thank you. I’ve been doing it for 17 years. It’s a dangerous job as we all know, but it’s a beautiful job. I wanted to pay back some of the dirt that I used to do, when I was... Back when I was younger. I was like, “What’s a noble profession?” I was like, teacher, I don’t think I have the patience with the kids, or I could be a firefighter, and firefighter appealed to me more. That’s what I do. That’s probably why some songs I’m a little different, the gravellier the voice, sometime, you know? That smoke inhalation’s a motherfucker, but yeah. That’s me. You know, that’s what I do.

Jeff Mao

Are you able to... I’ve always been curious about this, you self-release these albums, they usually drop in the summer, so does that mean you were good… but the music's so dark. I always associate it with the winter. Where and when do you record, when do you find time between working and...

Ka

I make time. I’m pretty nocturnal, I don’t get a lot of sleep. In the night, I’m doing a lot of my writing at night. I like to record when it’s colder. I go to the studios when it’s coldest. That New York feel, that grittiness that I’m, you know, when I used to be cold in my house. When I’m writing, I’m still on Ho’ Street. Everything I’ve ever written, in my head, I’m still on that top floor Ho’ Street, with the leaky roof, sleeping in my Mighty Mac coat, hungry. That’s where I’m writing from. That’s why you get that cold feeling, because while I’m writing, I’m cold, and I’m starving. That’s when I like to write best.

Jeff Mao

Want to listen to one more thing. This is, you mentioned the Dr. Yen Lo project with Preservation. Let’s listen to “Day 13.”

(music: Dr. Yen Lo – “Day 13” / applause)

Jeff Mao

Do you think we put too much emphasis on this idea of authenticity? Or, what does it mean to you?

Ka

To be authentic? Authenticity?

Jeff Mao

In hip-hop I mean.

Ka

You mean, like, living what you speak, type authenticity?

Jeff Mao

However you want to define it.

Ka

I think it is something in hip-hop that’s real. Like, “Is he real? Or is he fronting?” In hip-hop, you know, it used to be like, yo, you couldn’t speak what you didn’t live. That’s the time I’m from. If you saying something, you kind of had to live it. I don’t know if that’s the case anymore. The rules that set me to be an MC, are the rules that I’ve had from the ’80s, you know ’70s and ’80s. I’m not steering from those rules. Authenticity for me is, yeah, major. Major.

We know, in other genres of music, it’s not really the case. You could be an R&B singer singing about, “I love women, I love women,” and be homosexual. That don’t really, it don’t matter, as long as the song is beautiful it don’t really matter. In hip-hop I think it’s a different thing. Like, yo, they want to know your background too. Like, “Is he live? If he ain’t live, then he shouldn’t be talking about that.” I think, I don’t know. I might be stuck on that. I think you need to be genuine, to me. But I’m OG, you know? (laughs)

Jeff Mao

Or at least honest about what you want to do, you know?

Ka

Exactly. I know I would like, if I’m listening to a new artist that I really, really like, and he’s talking ‘hood shit, and then I come to find out he’s born in some real posh neighborhood, I would be upset. You know? I still might bump the music, who knows? It’s about me, music is about feeling too. I need to feel a person to really get into them, as well. If I know what you’re saying is genuine, and you’re also true to that then I get into you more.

You ever like, have an artist that you like, and then you see the interview? And you’re like, “Damn, I like them even more now!” Because you learned something else about the artist. That’s part of being real. Like, that person’s a nice dude. Make you root for them even more. I think it’s the genuineness of it. You know.

Jeff Mao

Are you glad you came here today?

Ka

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jeff Mao

Because you didn’t want to. (laughs)

Ka

You going blow me up? I wanted to come! You know this… I was like, “Why you want to talk to me, man? These kids don’t know who I am!” You know what I’m saying? You know, my man, they asked me to come, I said no. Not that I didn’t want to be around you good people. I just didn’t want to waste you good people’s time. That’s what it was, you know what I’m saying? Jeff hit me, was like, called me on the phone was like, “Yo. I need you to come to this thing, man. You know what I’m saying? You coming or what? I need you here!” I was like, “Alright, if you call me direct, then yes I’ll come.” I’m very happy that I came to this. This was a great experience. All the clapping, I feel like, you know. (applause)

Montréal… It’s my first time. This is my first time in Canada. I got to see Canada. It was beautiful. I would have never... Nobody called me for shows up here. It was good to see, man. It was great. I wish all y’all success in whatever endeavors y’all do musically. I hope to see some of y’all and be like, “I spoke to that person when they was... In 2016. Y’all big and stars now. I spoke to them in 2016.”

Jeff Mao

Before we take some questions, I think we should say thank you, once again, to Ka. (applause)

Ka

Thank you, thank you! Too kind, too kind. Thank you, thank you. Chill, chill, chill, chill, chill, chill, chill, chill. Thank you, thank you.

Jeff Mao

Anybody have a question? Do we have any mics? Participants, please, participants.

Audience Member

Hi.

Ka

What’s good man?

Audience Member

First off, I just want to say thank you very much.

Ka

Thank you!

Audience Member

It was super insightful and relative, like your approach to music. A handful of your tracks are quite minimal, and loop based. Which I’ve seen quite a bit with Roc Marciano, Alchemist, Durag Dynasty and that sort of stuff. Do you feel like those songs are different to songs with drums in them, and do you feel like they’re more so, not necessarily songs, but more so, like platforms or soundtracks for you to express yourself or tell a story?

Ka

Oh, yeah, definitely. What’s your name, brother?

Audience Member

Luke.

Ka

Luke? Nice to meet you, Luke.

Audience Member

Nice to meet you too.

Ka

Great question, man. The artist that he said, Rock Marci, which is my boy, Alchemist, another dude that, every now and then we kick it on the phone. They call it minimalist sound in hip-hop, where the drums aren’t really driving. Traditionally in hip-hop the drums, “boom, boom, ba,” like, they even actually call it boom bap. You know what I’m saying? We had stayed away from it. It was before us. There’s some songs, that back in the days, that they stayed away from the drums…

Audience Member

Yeah. Like some of Wu-Tang…

Ka

Yeah. Exactly. RZA was big with that, you know what I’m saying? I wish I could remember one of the Ghost songs that I really liked that was like…

Audience Member

“I Can’t Go To Sleep”?

Audience Member

“All That I Got Is You”?

Audience Member

“Box In Hand”?

Ka

There you go. You know what I’m saying? Then there you go. We just kind of like, like let’s laze it out. I felt like I was fighting drums, a lot. On my tracks. I’m like, if I strip the drums down, I don’t have to be so loud on the track. It actually brings you closer to me, because without the drums the percussion of my voice…

Audience Member

Rhythm?

Ka

Yeah, it just makes you like, you got to listen to me. You got to listen to Roc Marci. You got to listen to all the other artists that are doing this. It brings you closer to the words. It brings you closer to the feeling. I like it like that. If I’m a minimalist, then yes, I’m proud to be that.

Audience Member

Cool. Thank you.

Ka

Thank you. Great question. Cousin up there with the hat, the Yankee hat. I’ll get you, you wanted a question too, right? No? OK.

Audience Member

Alright, oh shit! There you go. First off my mom is from Brownsville, so it’s really dope to see somebody else from Brownsville.

Ka

What’s your name cousin, what’s your name?

Audience Member

Steve.

Ka

What block she from?

Audience Member

She’s from Mother Gaston.

Ka

Yeah. Mother Gaston. That’s what’s up.

Audience Member

She used to live over there from like the ’60s to the ’70s.

Ka

You know the original name for Mother Gatson was Stone Ave.

Audience Member

I didn’t know that.

Ka

Yeah. Stone Ave. Your mom’s from Stone Ave.

Audience Member

Because my grandpa, even back in the day when the “Rock the Boat” song came out, my grandpa used to be a pimping mother in Brownsville, and then he got stabbed up, and my mom associates that song now… Because when she heard that song for the first time, my grandpa was knocking on the door when the dudes were stabbing him up. His lungs were bleeding black shit. The stories you’re telling about Brownsville is so accurate. I don’t think a lot of people understand how real it is, and it’s still like that, to this day. They tried to throw a Banksy piece over there and people were trying to charge people money to even see it.

Ka

Yeah, I remember that. Yeah.

Audience Member

That shit was real. That’s why I love Brownsville.

Ka

Hey listen, you come over here with this art, they’re like, “Can we eat?” All we thinking about is how can we eat?

Audience Member

Exactly.

Ka

How can I get money from this? Yeah, it was real. I don’t want to ask how old your moms is, but I’m sure…

Audience Member

She’s 55.

Ka

She’s 55? She a little older than me, but she from the same time, so she know it was real, and you’re from the ‘ville by descent, then I salute you cousin.

Audience Member

I’m from East Flatbush too, that’s what’s up.

Ka

That’s what’s up. That’s what’s up.

Audience Member

My question was, who is the artist that you were listening to growing up that influenced your music and who do you listen to now that influences your music?

Ka

Growing up, it was… son asked me before too. I loved hip-hop until, I wanted to do hip-hop when I heard Slick Rick. Slick was like, incredible, man. You know what I’m saying? I still think the best storyteller to ever do it in this craft, but KRS-One. Rakim. All the old cats, Treacherous Three, Moe Dee, LL, Run DMC, all that. Growing up, I listened to everybody, growing up. That’s just what it was. I was listening to Mr. Magic, Marley Marl and Red Alert and they played everything, you know what I mean?

Now, it’s not just hip-hop. Hip-hop that I need, is not really being made like that. I got used to, let’s say you get used to you know, a hamburger, for lack of a better term. They making deconstructed hamburgers now. Which, that’s gauche, that’s that chef shit. That’s that fly shit. They doing that. I want a hamburger though. They’re not really making them. It’s hard for me to find that hamburger. Now, I got to go, let me go get some meatloaf over here, and let me go get some...

I’m listening to a lot more R&B now. I think that Frank Ocean album was incredible. You know what I’m saying? I’m listening to FKA twigs. James Blake. I’m listening to a lot of other, others. I still listen to my hip-hop. There’s couple young cats I like. GrandeMarshall is fire. I’m listening to Tree, an MC from Chicago. Reggie P. Obviously Roc Marci. There’s a new kid I like, Mach-Hommy. I still get it, MC wise, but it’s not a lot.

Audience Member

I feel it. No, seriously I listen to Billie Holiday all day, so I know.

Ka

Yeah, yeah.

Jeff Mao

Anybody else with a question for Ka?

Ka

They’re like, “Nah, it’s dinner time B, we good.” Thank you. I appreciate…

Jeff Mao

Let’s just say thanks once again, Ka. Thanks so much. (applause)

Ka

Thanks, thank you.