Nicky Siano

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

Hey everybody. Thanks for attending this event here with us. I guess the word pioneer gets used a lot and thrown around a lot. Sometimes it’s applicable, sometimes maybe less applicable. In this case, it certainly is very, very applicable. We have with us tonight as our special lecture guest somebody who really revolutionized the art of DJing, revolutionized club life in New York City and by extension, the world. Won’t you please welcome Nicky Siano?

Nicky Siano

Thank you. Thank you.

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

Thank you for being here.

Nicky Siano

OK. Thank you. Thank you all for coming. Appreciate it.

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

Do you think that when you hear somebody DJing you see some window into their personality? Would you say that’s the case?

Nicky Siano

It depends. It really depends. I always tell people that what I learned over the years is to step out of the way when I’m DJing. It’s like that first thought that comes into your head, that’s inspiration. Everything else is ego. If people are playing from their inspiration I think you can get a glimpse of their soul. If they’re playing from their ego, if they’re playing from the second thought, the third thought, and how would they like it if… Fuck them. You have to like it. You have to like it. Your music has to move you. If your music isn’t moving you, it’s not going to move anyone else. Don’t go there thinking “Oh, I got to impress” or “Oh, the dancefloor is empty. I got to make them dance.” No. Go with what you’re feeling. The first thought, play that record. If they’re playing from that inspiration, yeah, I think you can get a good idea of who they are.

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

If we were to listen to Nicky Siano DJing in, say, 1972, what was the window into that personality, what would that be?

Nicky Siano

I was an excitement junkie. Kenny Carpenter used to say that I would peak the crowd longer than any other DJ because when I got them to a point where they were just screaming and yelling, I wanted more. Since they were on acid it was pretty easy to get them to go a little bit longer in that kind of vein of… I swear Frankie talks about it in my film, “turn this motherfucker out.” That’s a chant. The first time they did that chant was at the Gallery during “Love is the Message” in 1973. It’s become a dancefloor chant and that’s the way the people or the Gallery used to party. Another thing in the film, if you haven’t seen it, Love is the Message, “Turn the Beat Around,” they would sing along. People would sing along with the music and I would be able to turn off the sound and they would sing perfectly in time. They would clap to the beat and sing the words and it was a pretty special experience back then, because it was the first time people were doing that freestyle dancing. It was the first time we were hearing that kind of music, that R&B music that just talked to you. The Vietnam War had ended, basically from protest from the citizens. We felt empowered, the tramps were screaming “love epidemic, spread it around the world” and it was… Everyone knew the words to every song. It was really about the words taking people beyond just what they were doing at the moment. The words were catching into a spiritual vibe.

If you say I love you, I love you, I love you, love yourself, love yourself over and over, it becomes a reality and so the words, everyone, a thousand people in a room singing those words, it just made it a reality. The room was vibrating with that energy.

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

DJing and DJs as we know them today didn’t necessarily exist back in the day when you started. What sort of catapulted you into trying to become a DJ as we know it now, a club DJ, what was your inspiration?

Nicky Siano

There were several DJs who… Michael Capello was one of the DJs that I heard and I said, “Wow, he’s a great DJ” but it wasn’t until I went to the Loft in 1969. I was all of 14 years old and a friend of my brothers…and at the time David always invited in young people, always opened the door to young people.

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

David Mancuso?

Nicky Siano

David Mancuso of the Loft. And I went into the room and he was behind the window over there and I was dancing with my girlfriend Robin and we were dancing and dancing and all of a sudden there was a peak, the bright white lights went on and every light went off except say that little lamp, and we’re still dancing and I’m going “Wow, this is really cool.” And then there was another peak and that lamp faded out, it just dimmed out, and I said, “He controls the little fucking lamp in the corner. I want to do that. That’s total control.”

It wasn’t about so much as playing records, it was about creating atmosphere and creating a kind of feeling within the room. That was really important to us. People get… I get very lost in lighting sometimes when it’s done well, but what’s happened today is people have flooded the dancefloor with lights. Back then it was one light at a time, one effect at a time, so it had much more impact. When that mirrored ball went out and it turned into a red wash on the walls you noticed, because it was the only effect in the room, or the color spot went on or the fog went on or the smoke went on, whatever happened, it had more impact when it was one thing at a time rather than what you’re seeing today with like eight or ten or 16 things. When one light changes, you don’t notice it because everything else is still going bing, bing, bing, bing in your face.

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

Just to back up a little bit further. How did you actually learn about places like the Loft and the other clubs that you initially went to? You grew up in Brooklyn, right? What part of Brooklyn did you grow up in?

Nicky Siano

Sheepshead Bay, and went to Lincoln High School. I started going out… Well, OK, I started going to the Village because I heard that gay people congregated in the Village, in the West Village, and I went down there a few times. Then one night I went down there and there were people blocking the traffic on 6th Avenue and blocking the traffic on 7th Avenue, and that was the weekend of the Stonewall riots. If you people don’t know about the Stonewall riots, there was a law in New York that two people of the same sex could not dance together on a dancefloor, that if they had a liquor license and two people of the same sex danced together, cops could come in, close the place down, and take away your liquor license too.

There was this law going on and this club, The Stonewall Inn, constantly was busted. Like, every six weeks they would come in, they go, “You’re dancing together, we’re closing you down for the night.” Well, this weekend night, Judy Garland had died that week, and the Village was very crowded with gay men and women, and when the Stonewall was raided there were a lot of people outside and inside who were just fed up with the bullshit. And one person threw a garbage can and there were only two cops at first… They first interceded with just two cops and people just went crazy. The cops had to lock themselves in the bar, call for backup and they couldn’t control the response because it was thousands of people with all these pent-up feelings.

I was down there for that and then I met this chick in high school, Robin, and I said, “You got to come down to the Village” and she said, “Well, we’re having a good time, but isn’t there some place to do something, like dance?” We started asking around and the only place we could go, because we were 14 at the time – actually, I started going down when I was 13 – we were 14 and the only place we could go was this place called the Firehouse, which was run by the Legal Defense League, and it was a firehouse on Wooster Street. We used to walk down below Housto – there were no lights, there were no people, there was nothing but muggings and it was dangerous. New York was a dangerous place back then.

So we would walk down there, get to the Firehouse, usually a few people outside. You go in the Firehouse and then I heard this music, I remember “You’re the One” by Little Sister, this song. It was…it’s by Sly Stone. Sly Stone produced it. I remember thinking, “This music is just it for me. I’m really digging what it’s doing to my feet. It’s making them move,” and this is before the drugs. It made me want to move, so I started getting into… “What’s that record, what’s that record, where can I get them?” I remembered there was this specific record called “Rain” by Dorothy Morrison and it was hard to get, and I couldn’t sleep until I had that fucking record and I went from record store to record store to record store. There was no calling back then ,or you didn’t even know the name of the record stores because you had to walk around and physically see the record stores. I didn’t know the name of so many records. I didn’t know the name. I was 14. Other people knew the name and finally, I found Colony Records, which was on Broadway, still there. One of… No?

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

No.

Nicky Siano

When did it–

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

Pretty recently, a couple years ago.

Nicky Siano

A couple years. It had to be, because I was there recently… A couple years ago. OK. Goodbye. Another New York legendary place, bye. And goodbye Second Avenue Deli, goodbye. Soon… Oh my God. What is it going to be like?

Anyway, I found Colony Records and they had “Rain” by Dorothy Morrison and I realized, “Here is the place to go.” And I was at a party, my brother had just moved into an apartment and I’m at a party and all these straight people – well, straight people are much cooler today than they were in 1969 in Brooklyn, New York. Brooklyn is a very cool place now. It wasn’t always that way. It was not a cool place, and these people were behind. I’m talking about, like, you went into Manhattan, it was a different country. It was really different back then. Brooklyn was “Whoa,” you didn’t want to be caught dead in Brooklyn. Anyway, I go to my brother’s party and these people are all, like, getting drunk or whatever, smoking weed back then, and the music is, and Robin’s going “Put on some of your records, put on some of your records!” So I start putting on the records.

We were getting up and dancing and this chick comes out of my brother’s bedroom and says, “Hi, I’m your brother’s new girlfriend Dale. You like this music? I’m taking you to a place that you’re going to love, called the Loft,” and that’s how I got to the Loft. And then Robin and I just couldn’t… I kept getting beat up in Brooklyn. I don’t know if it was the shorts, the Corkys, the six-inch Corkys we used to have back then. It was ridiculous – and rhinestone pins. I was a New Yorker, so we moved into Manhattan. Just like, two kids on a few Quaaludes and having part-time jobs, and we moved into Manhattan, into the Village – the Village something hotel on Washington Place – Village Plaza! And believe me, it wasn’t a plaza, it was a dump. Seventy dollars a week, roaches were included, it was a dump, and it was a tiny little room and the two of us would just huddle there and go: “Why do we move out of our parents’ house? Because they live in Brooklyn!” And we were able to go out like every night and we found this other club called the Limelight. The Limelight you had to be 18, but by then we were already like 16 and we were passing, you know, we were getting into the clubs.

Robin had a couple of few jobs that she doesn’t like me to mention, so I won’t say. But anyway, Robin had a few jobs and she was bringing in some money and we moved around the corner from the Loft, on Bleecker Street between Broadway and Mercer. The Gallery winds up on Mercer Street, which is outrageous. That was my first apartment, $280 a month, the one bedroom, and we would go to the Loft every Saturday night and then during the week we would go club-hopping. And we wound up one night at this place called the Roundtable and Robin became friends with the manager. We used to go in every night and complain about the DJ. And he didn’t like the DJ either, the guy. “Oh, this guy, he didn’t even know ‘Rain’ by Dorothy Morrison. That bitch doesn’t even have it. Is he kidding me? Everyone’s playing it. They’re playing it at the Limelight, they’re playing it at the Loft, this guy doesn’t have it? What the fuck is wrong with him?” He fires the DJ and hires me. So my first job, I was 16 years old. It was February 1972. I was just about to turn 17 in March and I started working there and I turned 17 while I was there. I just wanted to make it to my 18th birthday, because then I was a legal and I can go other places, but I didn’t quite make it. Made it to November, and then I had a fight with the drag queens. They had a big drag show there, the LaFleur Sisters, and they thought they were the shit. Especially the John LaFleur and he would look up at you and expects you to know that he needed the record to change when he looked and went [winks] like that. That meant change the record to… There was a medley of Supremes hits, “Love Child” and all that old shit.

Anyway, he looked at me and I didn’t change it because I didn’t see his look. I was doing something. I was getting his next record out and he came up, had a big fight with me and I got fired that night. Robin and I started walking around – actually, right here on 22nd Street, between 6th and 7th Avenue – and saw a loft. Every place had a placard that said “Loft for rent, loft for rent.” And we went in and we said, “How much is this loft?” He says, “It’s 5,300 square feet and it’s $360 a month.” That’s right, 22nd Street, between 6th and 7th Avenue, $360 a month for a loft 5,300 square feet. That sounded good to us.

We go to my brother, we make up this business plan. My brother has just settled an accident and he got insurance money, $10,000. He put that in. We went, we hired the best sound man we knew, Alex Rosner, because he was on every soundsystem you saw in New York at the time: the Limelight, even the Loft, Alex Rosner Incorporated. We hired him and he said, “OK, your soundsystem is going to be $6,500.” That left us 3,500 to put down a floor, to put down tiling, to build a separate dancefloor. Well, we didn’t get to it all at the beginning. We got to the wooden dancefloor and the rest, we just left it. Masonite, you know? And we opened up to what we called a straight version of the Loft, that was February. Didn’t work, hundred people every Saturday night.

This was 1973, the beginning of ’73. So February, March, I guess I turned 18, and that June David closed for the summer. He was taking all his staff there, and we went out and handed cards out outside the Loft that night and said, “What are you doing this summer? Come to the Gallery.” The next week there were 500 people at the Gallery and that started the Gallery. But what really moved the Gallery to the legendary status at that space on 22nd street, it was Calvin Klein, it was Willi Wear – every designer ever came to that club. Larry Levan used to work for me and so did Frankie Knuckles. They used to actually blow up my balloons, believe it or not. Became really good friends with both of them, especially Larry. He lived with me for a very long time in the beginning before he decided to be a DJ himself.

Larry was into fashion, that’s what he did and he would create these cap sleeve t-shirts. And he would have… He would draw them out and then this guy who sewed would put them together and he would wear them, like, for two or three weeks. Within two months you went to Capezio and you saw a rack of cap sleeve t-shirts there by the Capezio designers, who were at the club all the time. It was just like that and it was that quick back then. It was really a watering hole. We got closed down in the summer that everybody got closed down, 1974, and we moved downtown around the corner from the Loft to Mercer and Houston.

That’s when I built what people called the first disco, because first of all, disco was not a word yet. People didn’t say disco, they said, “We’re going to the club. We’re going to the party. We’re going out dancing.” Disco was not a word in the vocabulary yet. It just wasn’t going around yet, and I have a problem with the word to this day, because I feel like the record companies created that word to label things and sell them and kill it, basically. And that’s what they did. So anyway, I built this… I designed this, like, trapeze, with the lighting on the trapeze and the lighting went up. There was very high ceilings, about 36 feet, and the lighting went up in three tiers so it looked like the lighting was moving into the ceiling. There was a balcony and it was a very futuristic kind of thing. Steve Rubell who I worked for at his first club, the Enchanted Gardens, used to come there every Saturday night and he would sit under the DJ booth. I connected my DJ booth. I connected the counter to two beams so it never touched the floor and I didn’t have any feedback. It just went from beam to beam so you had to go underneath it to come in. He used to sit under the DJ booth and look up at the lighting, which moved into the ceiling. And then he opened Studio in ’77 with everything that went up into the ceiling. It took him a couple years, but he got there and that’s how it was back then. It was everybody taking ideas from everybody else, but taking it one step further. Or, some people took it one step back.

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

A couple of things, just as a point of reference. Just when you just mentioned your relationship with the term disco, I think let’s play something that gives people an example of some of the things that inspired you. You mentioned Dorothy Morrison, so let’s listen to “Rain” for a little bit.

Nicky Siano

I said to Jeff, “Can we move it forward so we could hear that last, like, crescendo, the last breakdown?” He says, “It’s only two minutes and 43 seconds. We’ll just play the whole fucking thing.” Boy, you talk about work. DJing was working back then. Nothing was longer than four minutes in 1973. I mean nothing. And you were changing those records like Frisbees. You had to have some coordination.

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

I want to ask you this because I’ve always wanted this… Before we get to the Gallery stuff in-depth. But yourself, Francis Grasso, Steve D’Acquisto, Michael Cappello, David Mancuso, all of these pioneering New York City DJs–

Nicky Siano

David Rodriguez, Bobby DJ…

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

Well, before Bobby, but Italian-Americans.

Nicky Siano

Guttadaro, Bobby Guttadaro.

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

Right, Bobby, right.

Nicky Siano

He was Italian-American too.

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

Why do you think that is?

Nicky Siano

Because the mafia owned all the fucking clubs and they were more comfortable hiring Italian goombahs than anyone else, period, end of story, you know what I mean.

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

That’s a matter of convenience, but I mean was there any… I mean, was there any other experience that was shared between… I mean, ’cause you guys all could have been DJs but–

Nicky Siano

No, it really was–

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

…not had been innovators.

Nicky Siano

It was that way. It was… They were more comfortable hiring an Italian. They felt like they could talk to them more than anyone else. There was a lot of prejudice still going on, very prejudiced, New York in ’72. It was hard for gay people. I mean, now it’s people grow up and they think gay marriage or what will happen and this and that. Gay marriage! We couldn’t even hold hands, forget about it. You couldn’t say you were gay in some situations. It was bad back then.

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

When did you come to the realization about your own sexuality?

Nicky Siano

Very young. I think that – I really think you’re born with the orientation. I was very young and I started looking, but I love women too. I love to dress them up, do the hair. That’s my friend. And go out dancing with them. I’ve had my share of relationships with women. It’s complicated. My life is complicated.

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

As you were saying, your plan was to open the Gallery as a so-called straight version of the Loft. And what it became was not a straight version, necessarily. How would you describe what it became and why is nightlife, especially in this era, why was it so important for young gay people in New York City?

Nicky Siano

The disenfranchised, that’s what it was about. The nightlife became a place where the disenfranchised gathered and supported each other in their day-to-day lives. It was really hard for Hispanic, black people. Every disenfranchised group was in the club at one point or another and the thing about the Gallery was that it didn’t matter: gay, straight, black, white, Asian, it didn’t matter. You were accepted 100% and you were never… There was never a fight. There was one fight in seven years that we operated, one fight.

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

What happened?

Nicky Siano

A guy lost his… We lost his coat. The coat man said, “I don’t know what to do, man, but we’ll work something out.” And the guy just punched him in the face. I mean, didn’t even wait. We were going to pay him for the coat. He just punched him, you know. He was doing the wrong drugs that night. Now, I went to… I’m not going to even mention it. Anyway, yeah, there were no fights. It was about community. People really felt like they weren’t just going to a club. They were going to their club. This is my club, because it was private membership, too. The Gallery was private membership. You couldn’t get in without a membership or being a guest of a member, but it wasn’t hard to get a membership. You just needed to be recommended by a member and then you got a membership. It was that simple.

It sort of was a good out when you saw someone that you said, “Are you a member? No, you’re not a member.” I remember the night that David Bowie and Mick Jagger came. And the famous door person, Robin, who was my girlfriend. She’s looking down at the thing. She says, “Membership, member number … Your membership, please.” “John Addison sent … ” “I don’t care who sent you. No membership, you can’t get in.” The bouncer clocked her and said, “Look up, bitch.” She looked up and she said, “Oh! David Bowie, Mick Jagger, please step right in.” They had a really good time, too. They stayed the whole night until we closed. It was amazing.

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

You mentioned the soundsystem at the Gallery and Alex Rosner. Gallery is known for a number of different technical innovations.

Nicky Siano

Bass horns. I had the first crossover ever built, was built for me. I had the first Bozak mixer. We had the first equalization done room-wise with pink noise. People weren’t doing that back then. They were just doing that in theatres, making the room flat with equalization. They weren’t doing that in clubs. That was the first time. The three turntables, of course. I used to do things with the tape. I used to create an echo with the tape loop. Just, whatever. If I dreamed it, I try to make it happen and I would dream things and just… I mean, you’re all in the business in some form or another, you know what inspiration feels like. When you get an idea in your head and a lightbulb goes off you try to make it happen, you know. You do what you can.

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

And controlling the environment as you–

Nicky Siano

I controlled the fan, the air conditioning, every light in the room. It was crazy because I used to really peak the crowd and then I would – when you throw a bright – we had what we call the white flash. It was eight white 400-watt bulbs, so it lit up the place like a Christmas tree. And then we send people into darkness, like on that last thing [points to record]. On the cymbal crash [makes sound] and then darkness. Like in “Girl You Need a Change Of Mind,” very famous for that part. When they went into darkness, I would turn the fan on overhead and it would feel like a draft and people would just scream. It was just too much for them to handle, to keep their mouths shut. Yeah, controlling a bunch of the different sensory inputs.

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

Now, in the first version of the Gallery you had walls built around the dancefloor.

Nicky Siano

Yeah, we built. At the beginning it was just one open space because we couldn’t afford to do anything. More than anything I wanted to enclose the dancefloor into a separate room. Basically that was for two things: sound and lighting. When you have a separate room you can control every light. When I go into a club and the lights go and then everything goes into darkness and there’s the Schlitz sign or the Budweiser sign blinking in my face, it doesn’t do it for me. If you’re going to send me into darkness I want it to be in total darkness. When there’s a wall around the sound it makes… First of all, you could use less sound, and when you have corners you have reflected sound, which really increases dB by 10dB. So you get just a better sound from a closer, enclosed area.

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

Musically, what did you find people were really responding to? I guess in different eras of the Gallery people responded to different things, but you mentioned, obviously, Dorothy Morrison, you mentioned Eddie Kendricks and songs like that. You put this compilation out a few years ago of some of the early Gallery songs, and it’s not disco or what people would interpret as disco.

Nicky Siano

No, no.

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

It’s very earthy, raw soul music.

Nicky Siano

R&B. It was called R&B before disco. Dance-orientated R&B was what we called it. Like I said, there was no really disco, that word wasn’t really out there. In “The Love I Lost” and “Love is the Message,” I remember the day I got that record, there was only two of us in New York that got the record, me and David Rodriguez. I played it eight times that weekend. It was just when you… It was like a radio station, what a radio station does. I was dealing with the same group of people every Saturday night. So I would program them. I remember the night that “Love Hangover” came out. I played it eight times. And then at the end of the night it played to the end and everyone was screaming. I picked up the needle, I only had one copy, I picked up the needle and put it on right from the beginning again, right from the very beginning. People weren’t ready for that. That’s what was going on back then. DJs were stars. I mean I remember when Gallery closed for those few months when we moved, I went to another club called the Windowpane the next week. 500 people. People followed DJs back then, that’s the way it was. It was because we were good. Larry – I mean, people would follow him to the ends of the earth. We were good.

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

What do you think Larry learned from you the most? Obviously, the–

Nicky Siano

Drama.

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

I mean, obviously, Larry’s legend continues to grow even posthumously. What do you think he learned from you? You obviously mentored him, as well.

Nicky Siano

I think the main thing, and Larry took it to the nth degree, was the appreciation of sound. I thought if you were going to dance, the soundsystem should be the most important thing in the room. You’re going to listen to music. You’re going to dance. Today, that has totally gone out the window. We were constantly tweaking and making the soundsystem better. If we heard about something new, we’d have Rosner bring it over, test it out, see how it sounded in the room. Larry, he got together with Richard Long and Richard Long started building him speakers and those speakers became legendary. I mean, the Bertha – that’s the Levan Horn. It’s still in a lot of clubs. They still make the Berthas.

Today they don’t make.. It’s like sound men had cabinet makers and they were made one-off. Cabinets were built custom. The first bass horns ever built were built for my club and they were scaled-up, low-end Klipschorns that were just made bigger, corner horns that just gave that low-end like, “Mmmm.” Not “Pap-pap-pap,” but “Mmmm”. It was folded, folded horns. Front-loaded horns are going to give you that pop. But this was a chambered horn that was baffled. We measured in Coney Island – we still have two of Richard Long’s J-horns. They go down to 24 hertz. Funktion-One goes down to 50, that’s it. These go down to 24. Humans can’t hear below 20. It’s something. It’s really something.

It’s easier to build something that goes down to 50 because you don’t need a cabinet that’s as tall as this room. The J-horns are that tall and they have to… the speakers sit all the way up in the speaker and then they’re baffle, baffle, baffle, and then they come out the scoop at the bottom. You have to have that room. And the Berthas, what they did was they used the corner of the whole room as a part of the speaker and that’s what gave you the response. People were willing to go that extra mile, build the wall here because these speakers are rated to be 24 feet apart. This is rated at 12 and that’s rated at 12. If they’re closer than that then we’re going to get cancellation. We need them exactly 24 feet. Let’s build the wall. People were willing to do that. Today, it’s like “No, we have to invest more money in the bar. It’s gotta glow.” I don’t get it. I just don’t get it. I don’t understand it. But people see the difference. I mean, when they come out and they hear me and I do a thing, it’s different.

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

One of the other things Larry was known for, and you were known for, was him being able to tell a story through the songs. Do you have a favorite sequence of songs, because of their lyrics, that you put together to express something?

Nicky Siano

The song “Love is the Message” – I mean, the fact that I was the first one to play it, I named my movie Love is the Message. It really was back then a lot of messages about love. Either it was “I love you baby, I want to live with you forever” or “I love you, but I don’t love you anymore – get the fuck out.” It’s either one or the other. Those messages were pretty much what we relied on back then. You want to talk about Grace Jones?

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

Do you want to talk about Grace Jones?

Nicky Siano

Sure. It’s a story, right. You want a story, the Grace Jones story is–

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

What is your favorite Grace Jones story?

Nicky Siano

Well, when I met her, first of all, she was not signed to Island yet. Her managers had put out two songs, “That’s the Trouble” and “Sorry,” which were both on her first album. They had put that out on a 12” and they were passing it around but no one was playing it.

Michael Gomes, who still does lights for Francois [Kevorkian] on Monday nights at Cielo, he came to me and he said “You got to meet this Grace Jones, she’s a trip.” So we go to the manager’s house, but before we go there we have to get lit. We smoke angel dust. Now I don’t know if you guys know about angel dust, but it’s like a trip and then some. We’re up there and we’re like loop-de-loop, and I’m really sick. I’m going out on the balcony and throwing up over the balcony. I was terrible. We were terrible.

Grace comes in and she’s got the regalia going on. She’s got that full hot thing. “Hello darling, I’m Grace.” She sits down next to me and she sings both songs beginning to end to me. I said, “Honey, this Saturday night’s our Halloween show, you got to come and sing.” She said, “Of course, darling, and whatever you’re on, I want some.” She was signed that weekend. The guy from Island was there at the Gallery and she was signed that week.

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

Some of the other memorable performances. Loleatta Holloway–

Nicky Siano

Loleatta Holloway. Loleatta Holloway had her first album out and it was just burning up the dancefloors, “Hit and Run” and “Dreaming.” The remix was not out yet but we were playing it off the album. It was just “Wow.” They called me up and they said, “Look, Loleatta is in town, if you want we could bring her to the Gallery next month.” We were giving our February 14th Saint Valentine’s Day Massacre. This is my brother’s idea. The Italian comes in here. The Saint Valentine’s Day massacre, and they are standing around with machine guns and black suits. Ah, please.

Anyway, she comes in, Loleatta, and she’s up on the stage, and I haven’t announced her yet, but she’s up on the stage and “Love in C Minor” by Cerrone was playing. She’s going [mimes her singing with mic off] So I turn up the mic and she’s scatting to “Love in C Minor”: “Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.” The place fucking – it was, like, 1,300 people there. We’re packed in like this. Erupted! I played that tape for two years until someone stole it. I’ll never forget that night. She was supposed to do two songs, she did five. It turned me onto the song “We’re Getting Stronger (The Longer We Stay Together).” I mean, that song, to this day, still is so meaningful to me.

It was easier to tell stories back then because the songs had words, and meaningful words, and in-depth words. There’s a song called “This World,” it was done by the Staple Singers and also by Sweet Inspirations, which is the better version. It says “My mind holds this…he holds my mind in his hand,” and there’s just such deep meaning in the words back then. You could tell people really thought about the words to the songs. They’re really meaningful. “Love and Happiness,” you know. “It makes you want to do right, makes you want to do wrong, makes you come out early, makes you stay out all night long.” I mean, it’s simple but still today… I don’t know.

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

Well, it’s a different–

Nicky Siano

“You can call me on a…” “You can call me on a…” OK, so, Drake, right?

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

Yes.

Nicky Siano

I’ve to talk. Does anyone know the song that’s sampled in the Drake song?

Audience member:

“Why Can’t We Live Together.”

Nicky Siano

“Why Can’t We Live Together,” right. “Why Can’t We Live Together” by Timmy Thomas, a great old song. Drake speeded it up from 106 to 120 and that’s the whole track of his track. It’s a great song in and of itself, “Why Can’t We Live Together,” but so many songs… I played “Think” by Lyn Collins. “It takes two to make a thing go right.” Every time it comes to that part, everyone knows that part because of a rap song, but it’s an old club record.

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

Well, I mean, this is a different era of craftsmanship in terms of songwriting. These people came up through different experiences and different disciplines. Let’s just listen to a little bit of “We’re Getting Stronger” since you mentioned it.

Nicky Siano

I got chills and just, the words – I mean, it’s so constructed so well, and Loleatta could sing, baby. That “Rain” song, by the way, it was danceable. It was gospel. That’s what it was, that’s the category it was in when it came out. We played a lot of gospel, a lot of rock, too. We played a lot of rock. I don’t get this one type of music, stick to it all night long. It’s boring. I’d much rather hear an eclectic mix of things. It works for me to move the night along. Just the one beat, 128 all night long, “bam, bam, bam.” Oh, please, give me a break. Give me a break, someone, please. Give me something at 110, something at 106. There are funky things down there. A lot of funk happening down there. Even in new records, I hear it all the time.

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

Back then, also, playing a set requires playing not an hour, not two hours… several hours. For you–

Nicky Siano

Well, I started at midnight and I ended at 8:30, 9:00.

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

You’re going to have to go through some ebbs.

Nicky Siano

You’re going to have to be on drugs is what you’re going to have–

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

Well, I didn’t want to say that but, yeah. Why did the Gallery close?

Nicky Siano

Bad management. That’s all I could say, bad management, because there was no lack of… This movie was shot the last couple of weeks, and you see the place is packed.

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

Actually, explain, because this is your documentary film.

Nicky Siano

It was shot at the Gallery in 1976 and ’77. It was several people from the Tisch University, the film university came down, they said “We want to do a documentary here.” And they shot all the footage, but it never came out. About 10 years ago I got the footage back and digitized it, and we put this movie out about two years ago. If nothing else, the visuals are just incredible, because it’s actually that year you go outside Houston Street and you see it like empty with the old Chevrolets and old cars. Houston Street, empty! I’m talking not a person, not a car, nothing. Sunday morning, nothing. It’s pretty stark. It’s jolting. I love this film. Frankie’s last full-length interview.

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

Frankie Knuckles.

Nicky Siano

Yeah.

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

Do you have any regrets about how things ended with the club?

Nicky Siano

Yeah. I do. I think that if I would have taken the bull by the horns and said “No, we can’t close it, we have to do this, this and this.” But I was so frustrated from… When you’re working with a manager who you bump heads with it’s very difficult for a creative person to keep being creative, because as soon as you get ten no’s you turn away and you start going other places. You just don’t want to hear a no anymore. You’re just, “Forget about it, I’m not going to even ask.” Then I went to Buttermilk Bottom for four years and they were much more receptive to everything, and that was great too. Another thing that I left because I had dreams of reopening the Gallery and it didn’t work out.

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

You also did a tenure at Studio 54.

Nicky Siano

I played, I was the first DJ along with Richie Kaczor at Studio 54. We were hired by Steve Rubell before the club opened. I played the second night, Richie played the first night, opening night. I played there for the first three to four months. I played for the Bianca Jagger birthday party where she rides in on the white horse and everything.

Again, I was into this DJ star in one night. I completely let the record end and brought in “Trans-Europe Express,” from the very first “tchik tk tk tk tk,” and I saw Stevie, he was on the balcony and he was with Ritchie and he got up and said, “This song, what is this song?!” I was fired that night. I blame “Trans-Europe Express” for that.

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

Now, at the same time, though, what did you feel, like after you got… After you left Studio 54, after Buttermilk Bottom, you went to a little bit of a dark period. What was that experience like for you?

Nicky Siano

No, I think that Buttermilk Bottom was the dark period.

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

What was the dark period?

Nicky Siano

The dark period was my heroin addiction. I was addicted to heroin and back then it was stronger than it is now. It just, it took hold of me. I mean, it just was more important than playing records, which I didn’t think anything would be more important than playing records in my life. When that happened it came out in my work, and I had to stop working. I had to not go into clubs ,because I was still going to the Garage and just someone would hand me something and I’d take it. I had to stop all of that in order to get sober and to start living again.

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

What was the low point that made you turn things around?

Nicky Siano

I think I had just lost everything. I didn’t have an apartment. I slept on the subway one night. I went home to my parents’ house. They said, “We’ll take you in, but you’ve got to go get help and we’ll tell you where to go. It’s around the corner, Coney Island Hospital.” I did. I went. That experience worked for a little while but really what got me sober, kept me sober, were the rooms of a 12-step program.

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

And you turned your life around to help others.

Nicky Siano

David Rodriguez, who was a DJ friend of mine, was one of the first people I knew who died of AIDS in 1984, who I knew personally. At that time I had been sober for about two years and I was very involved in this thing called the healing circle, which was for people with AIDS. It was about meditation and trying to work through positive affirmation. It was Louise Hay You Can Heal Your Life stuff. I called up a friend of mine who was working at a drug place, a drug counseling place, and I said, “Why don’t you let me bring a healing circle there?” and she said, “A little too progressive for Samaritan,” whatever it’s called, “But you should be a counselor. We have a position open.” And I didn’t have a job then. I went up and I interviewed and they hired me. Then the next thing I know they’re giving me all the HIV patients, because no one else wanted them and then I became the HIV coordinator. Then I went back to school and got my degree in social work, and then I wrote a book called No Time To Wait which a lot of people were helped by. It was, like, what alternatives to take before the medications are out. It came out in ’93 and a lot of people to this day say “You saved my life with that book.” That, for me, was the most important work I did in my life.

It was also paying back some shitty karma that I had amassed during the disco years. And then I was hanging out in Virginia, working at the Tidewater AIDS treatment center, and I was meditating everyday, as I was taught to do, and a voice said to me “Quit your job!” I was like, “I’m so burnt out, but I can’t quit my job” and the voice said, “Quit your job!” On just sheer faith, I went in and quit my job. One week later, Francois called me from Body & Soul and they said “We’re celebrating Larry’s birthday in four weeks and we’d like you to play.” That started me playing again in 1996. I’ve been playing again ever since.

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

How did it feel to get back behind the turntables and play music at that point?

Nicky Siano

It was exciting, but it took me a while to find my footing again. I really had to experiment with new stuff, old stuff, and just experiment a lot until I found my footing.

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

You continue to DJ, obviously.

Nicky Siano

Yeah.

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

To this day.

Nicky Siano

The 31st, my birthday, at Output in the Panther Room if you want to come down.

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

Now what–

Nicky Siano

March 31st.

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

OK, March 31st. Now you also have been doing, for those of you who are more familiar with some of Nicky’s more recent gigs, gigs at the Coney Island–

Nicky Siano

Yeah, at the El Dorado Disco bumper cars.

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

Explain what that is for those who may not be familiar.

Nicky Siano

OK. In Coney Island, there’s this disco bumper cars ride and the thing about it is that Richard Long, who built the soundsystem at Studio 54 and the Paradise Garage and just hundreds of clubs from 1975 to 1987, he built that soundsystem, and it’s still there even after Hurricane Sandy. The sound man came in and put everything back together just as it was. It has the most incredible soundsystem. I went in there on my hands and knees, cleaned that motherfucking place of all that black dust that was everywhere from that fucking ride. We gave parties there. We gave two parties and both of them were just out of sight, just great parties.

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

Are you going to continue to do more there?

Nicky Siano

I don’t know. I don’t know what tomorrow brings. A day at a time, as they say. I wrote a pilot for a TV series based on my experiences in my life: me, Larry and Frankie, the three amigos, building the disco scene. I’ve been shopping it around and everyone’s been saying “ But Vinyl’s coming out, Vinyl’s coming out!” Well, Vinyl’s out now. We all know it’s whatever it is. I don’t even know what it is because it doesn’t look like New York in the ’70s, because I was there and it didn’t look like that. It did not look like that. Anyway, Vinyl happened and maybe we’ll get some more traction at this point with the script. It’s a great pilot.

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

You started in this game, you were a teenager. You are now–

Nicky Siano

A teenager!

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

You’re now a teenager, a more mature and seasoned teenager. How does it feel to have made this journey that still continues? What is your perspective now?

Nicky Siano

I’m so worried about the world and the shape it’s in. I mean, I really am very concerned about… I see people having children and I just go “How, what’s going to happen in 40 years? What kind of world is that child going to be living in?” I’m concerned. I’m scared to death.

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

Weren’t those concerns similar in the ’70s, as well?

Nicky Siano

Yeah, they were.

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

Energy crisis.

Nicky Siano

Yeah. They were.

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

Going into the Cold War.

Nicky Siano

Yeah.

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

All these other things.

Nicky Siano

Yeah. There were a lot of things that are similar, similar feelings, but back then we had a whole bucket of hope and today, it’s just little by little, that hope. Obama was my big hope, my hope guy. Boy, it didn’t work out. I don’t know. Bernie’s another light of hope and that’s not going to work out. I don’t know what’s going to happen. I’m going to be gone, so you all can deal with it. God bless you.

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

Speaking of you all, I’m wondering if anybody has any questions for Nicky at this point. Anybody with a question for Nicky. If you do, I think we might have a microphone that’s circulating the room.

Audience Member

Hi, thanks so much. That was really fun.

Nicky Siano

Thank you.

Audience Member

I was talking to the gentleman from the Paradise Garage and one of them was telling me how he used to do the acid punch and they would just… He was the guy that ran giving everybody the acid punch and you kind of mentioned that also. There’s a lot of back-and-forth about how drugs changed clubs and how important the drugs are, or not, to how people are acting in the club or how the experience is. How do you feel things have changed since you started? Like, do you think that the drugs changed people’s experience of the music? Do you think that one era of that was better than the other, or does it really not matter that much in the end?

Nicky Siano

Umm… Do the drugs matter? Yes, they matter. Do they change the experience? Uh huh! But you can get a real fire going even with the sober, dead sober crowd. I mean, we did Le Bain – this is my manager, Rebecca – we did Le Bain a couple of weeks ago, Valentine’s Day, and it was just so off-the-hook, sweet. People were basically sober, besides alcohol, and that could be a real mess, but it was great. It was a great night. The energy was amazing. I think you can get there no matter what drug you have or don’t have. If you’re good at what you do –and again, inspiration is that first thought – it really can cut through anything.

Audience Member

Back when there was the Gallery and the Loft and everything like that. Was there no alcohol sold in all of those clubs, right?

Nicky Siano

Yeah. We didn’t have alcohol. We didn’t have a liquor license, but people did bring alcohol and drink. But that was very rare. People basically went to see the dealer. We had a dealer. He’s in the movie. He had everything. He had little pockets of everything. No matter what, you want it up, down, sideways, he had it all. It was cheap! I mean, 50 cents each, two for a dollar. I mean, come on. People just did that. The dealer got rich and we had to close the club.

Audience Member

That’s a common story. I have one more question then I’m sure other people have questions. What was your parents’ reaction when you moved out of the house with your friend when you were so young?

Nicky Siano

At 16 years old.

Audience Member

Yeah.

Nicky Siano

You know, it was different back then. It was so different. My parents were not put off by me going to the city at 13 years old. “You’re going with your friends, you’re going to be with someone, OK, fine.” It was that different world. It was not so fearful as we are now. We’re fed this fear and I don’t even know if it’s true or not sometimes. We’re fed this thing, like, “Ooh.” The kids, I mean, they don’t go out anymore alone. It’s just really weird. It was a different world back then. My parents, I was 16. My father was basically, “Uh, he’s 16. Sixteeeeen. [shrugs]” I don’t know what that meant.

Audience Member

Thank you.

Nicky Siano

Thank you.

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

Who else has a question?

Nicky Siano

Did you have your hand up back there?

Audience Member

Yeah. You mentioned that you guys were the first ones to bring in about three turntables, I guess.

Nicky Siano

Yeah, I was the first one to bring in my third turntable. Yeah. No one had three turntables, but go ahead.

Audience Member

What was the process of mixing with three turntables?

Nicky Siano

OK. This was what I did it for. I had a dream that I was playing “Girl You Need A Change Of Mind,” which was one of the biggest songs, and I was going into “Love is the Message,” which was the other big, big song, and while I was making the mix I was playing a sound effect of a jet plane, and that’s what I used it for, and I did it a lot. I mean I had different sound effects that I played during mixes constantly during the night. Always, the third turntable had a sound effects album on it and that’s what I used it for. That was my thing.

Audience Member

Also, when did beatmatching come into play?

Nicky Siano

OK. This is another story. First of all, the first job I had at the Roundtable didn’t have headphones, didn’t have a cue system. I was up on the balcony next to one of the big speakers and I had to put on the other record just kind of low behind and try to feel if it was going to work or not and then I would just sort of… It was called the blend, not a mix, the blend. Everything was the blend, then it was timing. You put it on, put it on, put it on and then that was fading and then turn it up. That’s what happened.

Then I got the idea that if we held the record – and back then it was belt-driven, so you had to hold it very gingerly – if you held the record you can get a better blend. Then I started hearing people sometimes mixing things and they actually matched and then I said, “Well, what if it went the whole night with things matched?” Boy, did I create a monster. I started doing that. I started matching every record and that became beatmatching.

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

Now, you’ve also said that you would place the 45s on top of the albums?

Nicky Siano

Yeah, underneath! The 45 is underneath the album so the album would slip more readily.

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

OK.

Nicky Siano

So it wouldn’t hit the rubber platter. I used that as a felt mat, like a 45 would be the felt.

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

OK, I see. I thought you had put the 45 the reverse way.

Nicky Siano

On top? no.

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

Yeah, OK. All right.

Nicky Siano

Another 45.

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

Because that’s like the old school hip hop way, where you would glue the 45 to the album, but that makes complete sense. Who else has a question?

Audience Member

When I hear stories like this it can really make a lot of the parties I go to seem very tame in comparison. What would you say are some of the social and legal issues affecting the scene in the city now, and what would you say to people trying to foster a community in these situations?

Nicky Siano

It’s not happening in Manhattan. It’s happening in Brooklyn, Williamsburg, and that other neighborhood [shrugs]. Old timers. Yeah, it’s not happening in Manhattan anymore. The thing, Giuliani, it’s [Rudy] Giuliani ruined the club scene in New York. He basically, by the time he got out of office he’d closed every good club in Manhattan. It’s too hard in Manhattan right now, but in Brooklyn, there’s a lot of good things happening.

Audience Member

Do you think that there’s a path forward with the cabaret laws in place currently?

Nicky Siano

It’s really difficult. I don’t know. If I had a little space I would go back to the basics. What I did was make it just people I knew have… if I don’t know them, then a friend, they have to be a friend of a friend, and it’s my house, I’m having a party, get out! Because you can have a party in your house anytime you want to. You have to deal with neighbors, sometimes, but in parts of Brooklyn if you’re in a neighborhood that doesn’t have many neighbors you can do that and that’s what they’re doing. They’re giving guerilla parties all over Brooklyn and Williamsburg. It’s a new age of an old idea.

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

You also mentioned outcast societies and communities.

Nicky Siano

Right.

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

I mean, do we have outcast communities to the same degree that we did then?

Nicky Siano

No, we don’t, but we still have people who want to go out to a good experience while they’re dancing to music and something that’s fun. You want to have fun. It’s the one place I feel like you can transcend your troubles, you can tap into an energy that’s beyond the bullshit of day-to-day life. You can forget about paying your bills for eight hours. It really is a kind of escape.

Audience Member

How did you inspire Frankie? What did he learn from you?

Nicky Siano

Frankie splintered off very quickly because he went to Chicago very early on, like ’76. One thing that I’ll tell you about Frankie, he was the most kind, lovable person. You know what, Rebecca, it’s what I learned from him. I mean, he was tolerant. He was never the diva. He always had a smile on face. Even when they were chopping off his fucking leg because of diabetes he kept it together and laughed with people and went to dinner and looked in your eyes and talked to you like you were a human being. I’ll tell you, if I could be a little more like Frankie I think it would make me a better person. Larry, that’s another story. Larry was much more like I was. Diva.

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

Anybody else with a question?

Nicky Siano

Anyone else?

Audience Member

You’ve talked a lot about DJing and I’m just wondering a little bit about the Dinosaur “Kiss Me Again” song.

Nicky Siano

OK.

Audience Member

Two things, can we listen to a bit of it and also, can you maybe tell us a bit about the track and how it came about?

Nicky Siano

Sure. OK. I am–

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

A little background, I guess, for those who may not be familiar with it.

Nicky Siano

Want to put it on?

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

No, no. You, no–

Nicky Siano

Yeah. I was working one night and my best friend Louis always came to the club, they came with a group and he was there with a friend of his, had long hair, not really good skin, bad skin! And he danced – the worst dancer I ever saw in my life. I mean, “Spasticus" was written about him. And that was Arthur Russell and I’ll never forget it.

I mean, “Turn the Beat Around” was a new record, wasn’t on the radio yet, wasn’t happening anywhere yet. I was playing it and he came into the booth and he said, “Whoa, this record is really cool.” Louis brought him into the booth. “This record is really, really cool.” I said, “It’s new, it’s going to be a big, big hit.” He said to me, “You know, we can make a record like this, really, for not too much money.” $12,000 later of my money we had “Kiss Me Again” which… We had the drama from “Turn the Beat Around.” Please be quiet. We had the drama from “Turn the Beat Around.” We had David Byrne on guitar because he lived upstairs from Arthur and he wanted Arthur to play with the Talking Heads. So David came in and laid down a track. We had Miriam Valle – Desmond Child and Rouge was a big performing act back then. She was part of the Rouge band and we had a lot of good people. Wilbur Bascomb on bass.

We had some of the top studio musicians. Arthur wrote a really incredible symphony but Arthur was never finished with the record, and back then you’re dealing with tape. You only have so many tracks, 24 tracks, and, unless you’re in a 48-track studio…We couldn’t afford that. I don’t even think they had it when we started with “Kiss Me Again,” ’76. If the horn was playing in one part and then he had a keyboard part but it was where the horn wasn’t playing he would put that all on the same track. So you had a track with horns, keyboards, and lead guitars, lead fills, so it was like a crossword puzzle gone wrong. It was just really hard to map out and he would keep recording and recording and recording, because he always had an idea, but at some point you had to say “It’s done.” That’s why every one of his partners… Like Steve D’Acquisto took “Is It All Over My Face” out of his hands. Larry didn’t even have him at the session where he mixed “Is It All Over My Face”

He had to be let go from the project at a point. Was he brilliant? Yes. He was brilliant. He was a brilliant, brilliant musician and wrote some incredible… I mean, “Go Bang,” “Is It All Over My Face,” “Kiss Me Again.” I mean, just those three and that’s a lot.

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

Let’s listen.

Nicky Siano

We’re going to play a different mix now. This was the side that became the hit. It’s 13 minutes long.

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

I think that warrants a little bit of applause.

Nicky Siano

I was the first DJ to actually produce a record. DJs were mixing but they hadn’t produced anything, so that was the first time a DJ produced a record. I was actually holding her hand while she was singing, so at some point I’m, like, squeezing. “What do you want to do now,” and I squeeze her hand. It was like [mimics reaction]. It was something, it was great time.

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

Did you have ambitions to do more production?

Nicky Siano

We did. We did. A deal got picked up, we sold 200,000 copies of this. Most disco records were selling a million back then, but 200,000 was a lot and our deal got picked up and then Arthur just did his thing. “I want to do this, I want to do that,” and they gave us like $20,000. He went through it like that. I never saw a penny of it. I didn’t recoup my money. It was all my money that was funding the projects so I just walked away. I said, “Look, I can’t work with you anymore.” We did a song with–

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

You did one more song together, though, so that was the–

Nicky Siano

We did “Tiger Stripes.”

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

What was the story behind that then?

Nicky Siano

“Tiger Stripes?” I wanted to do another record and I knew Arthur and we decided to team up again.

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

Do you have fun memories of that particular record or–

Nicky Siano

Yeah, because that record I knew what to do with him. Yeah. I said, “Get out. I’m taking over.”

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

Your vocals on that record as well.

Nicky Siano

I did some vocals on that record, but the best mix of that is “You Can’t Hold Me.” It’s so good.

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

Which one? Because I actually think I have the right mix this time. Yeah, which one is it that?

Nicky Siano

“You Can’t Hold Me” is the name of it.

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

But which version of “You Can’t Hold Me?”

Nicky Siano

Yeah, “You Can’t Hold Me Down.” It would be the longer version, yeah, extended one.

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

All right, so let’s listen to a little bit of this because this is also you and Arthur Russell.

Nicky Siano

You can really hear Arthur’s influence, five million things happening at once. I don’t know if you’ve ever heard the original version of “Is It All Over My Face,” the male version, but it’s like 24 tracks full-on, everything going at once, and Larry took it and he just stripped it down to nothing and it became such a hit. I played the original when it first came out but Larry’s version just hit it right on the mark.

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

You did some more production. You ran your own label as well. DJing versus production, I mean, is DJing really pretty much still your heart?

Nicky Siano

I love DJing. I love the live response in the room at that time. Production can be long and tedious but DJing is so in the moment. I love it. I love DJing.

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

Does anyone else have a question for Nicky before we wrap?

Audience Member

You DJed in the ‘70s and then you’re DJing again now. What do you think the biggest difference is? Technologically, socially, just anything of the differences that you’re seeing today versus back then?

Nicky Siano

It was really interesting. I have this arc, like, when I first started playing in ’96 again, it was like starting all over again. I had this audience, but it was all splintered and it was here and there and it just took about 10 years to build my audience back up. And now when I go and do a night, it’s a very similar experience to the energy that I had back then, because I’m the same DJ. I’m creating the same kind of atmosphere in my music that I created back then, so it’s kind of really similar. The technology – well, what can I say? I mean, it’s like you can do anything you want, it’s just amazing. And I use it because I love technology. Even back then I invented a lot of that stuff and every time a new thing came out I tried it out. So, I love technology. I think it’s a great thing.

Did someone have, you had your hand up?

Audience Member

Thank you. I had question about the LGBT influence in music. I think that dance music owes a lot of debt to LGBT folks that were making music.

Nicky Siano

Absolutely.

Audience Member

Right. I’m curious to know what your opinion is on how queer sonics maybe play a role in new music and maybe where that’s going now? And if you think that there is such a thing as a queer sound?

Nicky Siano

I have this thing where I call that… [laughs to himself] “all fag dance music.” I have one category. Back then, too, it was like, I have this underground kind of sound and then there was this whole other white, gay, the Saint sound. Or, right above the Gallery, Flamingo sound and it was a different thing. I called it high-energy fag music, that’s what I called it. High-energy fag music, because it never came down from that thing.

I think gay people are so creative. I mean, we lost so many people. I was in the trenches when AIDS started and we lost so many great people during that time, and it’s really a shame, but we’re building back up and I think we’re coming back into our own creatively and I think gay people are just amazing creators of everything: fashion, music, everything. They move into a neighborhood and boom! The prices go up, everything goes up. What does that tell you? I think there’s definitely a place for a queer sound.

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

Anybody else with a question for Nicky?

Nicky Siano

Thank you all for coming out. I really appreciate it.

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

You have one more question over here, OK?

Nicky Siano

OK.

Audience Member

Is there a sound or a community of sounds coming out of New York City currently that make you feel like you’re 18 again?

Nicky Siano

The most fun I have is when I play. I’m just dancing in the booth. I love Mobile Mondays, I go there. But I haven’t found something that really kicks my ass since Body & Soul stopped. Body & Soul was the last thing that I used to go every week to it, and it really was fantastic. Kicking my ass every week, and they really discovered so many records and really made them happen there. You look forward to hearing “Flowers” and “You Don’t Even Know Me” and Kenny Bobien records and “I Shall Be Released.” It just brought in this whole new vein of house music. “Rescue Me” and Jamiroquai and all that shit was just so vibrant and so great. Add another Richard Long soundsystem that was taken apart from Vinyl and Body & Soul, that was the last party I felt really had that old school influence that worked on a weekly basis.

Now, 718 Sessions, hit and miss. Mostly hit. Danny is a great DJ and that for me is a party that I could go to every time they have a party. I used to hang out sometimes at Cielo on Monday nights, but now I would rather go to Mobile Mondays.

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

Do you have any final thoughts? I mean, we’re in a room full of creative people. A final thought you want to share with these guys before they send them off?

Nicky Siano

First of all, if you have to compromise, try not to compromise too much. If you’re compromising to the point where you feel uncomfortable about the product, then you got to let it go and just let it go and do something else. Because if you’re compromising to the point where you don’t feel good about the product, you’re going to ultimately try to run from it or be there but not be present, like, take drugs or stuff like that.

Music is something you want to feel good when you’re doing, because it’s creative and you have to feel good about your work, and you’re very, very blessed if you’re making money from what you love to do. I feel blessed everyday ’cause I make money from what I love to do, so try not to compromise too much. If you’re compromising to the point where you feel uncomfortable, find another project. And then the other thing is, like Madonna, don’t give up. Do not give up. Keep knocking on those doors and keep making that music until you find your niche.

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

Thank you for being here and thank you for that.

Nicky Siano

Thank you.

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

Everybody, Nicky Siano.

Nicky Siano

Thank you. Thanks a lot.